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Discussion in 'Presto GP' started by Valerio Vinassa, Sep 26, 2012.
This thread is compulsary/mandatory reading, please stay strictly to the point
more low is possible
There were no real incidents until I disconected
Only had 1 when Dale spun at T1, I went to go round him and he moved towards me leaving me nowhere to go but into his front right. One of those things as far as I am concerned.
ts 601 : I locked my tires at lap 6 T3 and ran into Marko, making him spin. Sorry m8 it's entirely my fault.
no incidents to report
Braking for turn 1 I bumped into Kurt.
I am very sorry Kurt. As is always, I hope you were unharmed.
My fault, and I was probably distracted a bit by having Valter to the right of me; and he was slightly ahead.
T.S. 720 lap 7 Turn 2
There was a bit of a shemoozle at turn 2 with several spun and stopped cars. I slowed, probably a bit unpredictably [sorry Chirlie ] and got a push which spun me 180.
It is a fine line between safety and keeping the track clear under such conditions.
I believe that is all for incidents, but do correct me [and add any opinions] if need be. Remember, noadmin
incident with Vincenzo in straight T7 T8 Lap .
There was already an accident and I saw cars on right and left so i decided to run in middle wrong choice there was Vince but for me totally invisible I saw him only when I smash him or better 2meters before strange thing no damage for me was a big hurt, hope same for you Vince.
T.S. 700 lap 7 Turn 2
I'm sorry Kurt for the bump on lap 7 that turned you around. I have no excuse for my sticking the nose inside. That was stupid of me. And sorry to you guys that got caught up in the aftermath.
EDIT: I have met Kurt live now. He is a cool man, the best. I will buy him a beer at first opportunity. Next blues-night maybe.
Too many incidents again...
Qualifying lap checked, no cuts
What: Nicolas was chasing me at the opening laps of the race. We had really different style of driving T1, 2 and 3. He seemed to emphasize entering speed into these corners, whereas I emphasized exiting speed at T3. This lead to us always being really close to each other at the apex of T3, before I would build up a larger gap when exiting T3. On lap 6 this developed into an incident just before apex of T3. I spun and lost 2 positions in the race.
How to avoid: The driver behind has better view on these situations and needs to take responsibility (as Nicolas has done).
What: Tim was chasing me for P1 along Esplanade Drive and seemed he was not going to try overtaking me at the braking since he was around 40 metres behind. In the middle of the braking he changed line and tried to overtake, but being too far back he hit the side of my car. It is noteworthy that at the turning point of the corner Tim´s nose was still around 4 meters behind any part of my car. I did not suffer any damage nor did I lose any positions in the race, and neither did Tim (I think).
How to avoid: There was a misjudgement from Tim here. I was on worn tyres with light fuel load, and Tim was on fresh tyres and medium load of fuel (I think). This caused him to be quite a lot quicker than I at that point, but that does not justify desperate attempt. He apologized and we´re ok.
Conclusion: This type of incidents (bump from behind style of incident) keep accumulating for me too much lately. Is there something in my driving style or racing behavior that is to blame for this? I want to complete my races without incidents and I rarely cause them, so in my opinion I also deserve to finish most of my races without incidents.
i had an incident with peter when he came to a sudden stop to avoid cars sorry for the tap in rear too peter
had another few incidents with Vincenzo who in my opinion was way to aggressive thumping my car on a number of occasions giving me suspension damage lap 1/2 and when i managed to jump him in pits he came out again behind me and henrik ending in him taping henriks rear puting him into the wall then chasing me to eventualy hit me again to make a pass, im not saying any ill intent just that i felt he was to aggressive on an already very narrow dangerous track that is hard to pass at the best of times lol.
other than this great race guys cyas next race
Vale, sorry for that! 146' my car spin and take decision to stay stop until everybody pass, I am not expecting that happen.
No incidnts to report
Slight contact with Peter when i passed lap 5 sos Peter, i tried to stay tighter im sure there wouldnt have been any contact if i did .
No other incidents.
1st incident at turn 1, sorry Bob didnt think u were so close behind i hope you didnt have to much damage.2nd incident spun just before you go under grandstand think vale was behind was right across track so quickly escaped so as not to cause a incident with others.
Lap: 6 spun
Lap: 14 off track while trying to set pit commands (really need practice here)
Lap: 20 spun
Lap: 24 spun
Lap: 32 Vincenzo barely tapped me while passing and I spun
Lap: 39 spun
Lap: 40 spun
Lap: 41 spun
I was really driving well, concentration errors made med spin.
No problem Peter no damage
Valter and I had a good long talk today and worked it all out.
Besides that and some spin by myself, I had no other incidents.
No incidents to report.
There was only one situation close to the end when Nico and Eliezer had a fight in front of me. Eliezer had spun and there was many smoke so I couldn't see him. I reduced speed very much to approach the scene carefully. At that moment I was on the right side wall of the track. When I could see Eliezer again, he slowly drove from the middle to the right track side too. It looked very slowly so I decided to slip through on the right side. We slightly touched (I guess) but I think we both could go on without any problem. So I had no problem at all.
If Elizer doesn't see a reason to get deeper into it, I think it's solved by that. Otherwise I'd be happy to be more specific (time stamps, deeper analysis, etc.)
TS1709 Lap 17 - Contact with Mark
Totally my fault (obviously) I agree with Marks description, though I would like to clarify that I didn't decide to attempt the pass half way into the braking zone. Rather, half way into the braking zone I realised I hadn't left enough room and was going to run up the back of Mark. Normally I would go to the outside in that circumstance but there was a wall there so I instinctively went inside hoping there would be room.
I'm sorry Mark, it was very sloppy driving. I did of course wait for Mark to regain position before continuing (though luckly for both of us that happened very quickly).
I don't think your driving style has anything to do with it and it is very reasonable to expect these incidents not to happen. Being on a one stopper will always increase the chances of such incidents with the quicker two stoppers coming through. This is in no way an excuse or attempt to shift blame. One stopping a perfectly valid choice.
TS3909 Lap 40 - Near miss with Eliezer
Came around a right hander in the final part of the lap to see Eliezer spun and facing me. Though it happened quite fast there was room for me to pass comfortably. As I passed however Eliezer applies the power and very nearly takes me out. I'm not quite sure what the plan was, it seemed clear which was I was going?
Incident lap 7 - I hit Kurt who has just been in an incident with Valter.
The way I remember it, it all happend very fast, and I was unable to avoid contact. Looking at the replay I am unsure if I could/should have reacted earlier. I was focused on getting the apex and then throttle out of corner without spinning and noticed what was ahead too late. The only leasson I could learn is to try to keep a better eye on what happens ahead (or improve my reaction time), but all in all I see this as an unavoidable incident.
Incident lap 41 - I hit Eliezer who spun his car in front of me
It looks quite similar to the first incident, however, here I am aware of Eliezer out of control at an "early stage". I have Peter on my tail and my reaction is to go a bit slower (not to catch Peter out (or let him past me?)), but I get caught out by the sudden return of his car in my lane. Looking at the replay I am wondering why I did not take a wider lane.
The situation was obviously initially created by Eliezer's mistake, but looking at both incidents together I am starting to wonder if I need to generally cool more down in these situations (however there is a balance between reacting to what is ahead and being predictable for those behind).
The second hit from Eliezer I do not think I did anything wrong.
Bottom line is that this was 2nd last lap, all I lost was the possibillity to be 6th instead of 7th.
About Chirlie and Vincenzo, allow me to move your posts to keep this thread clean, and I'll help you out with how it's done.
Incident lap 1 - Vincenzo and Chirlie
Vincenzo: Seemingly slightly bold attempt to pass at lap 1.I would assume the attempt was a surprise (understandably) to Chirlie. However, Chirlie misses the apex (does he know you are there?) so the pass becomes safe and there should be no danger of contact. In the exit you didn't manage to leave quite enough room though, but I still think it should have worked out.
Chirlie: At what stage did you know Vincenzo was on your inside? When I watch the video I find it curious that you do not seem to react to Vincenzo's presens. I would have expected you to go wider, as wide as you needed to avoid contact, but instead you seem to claim the right to be where you are.
In total I think Vincenzo's only mistake was that he was not able to leave quite enough room in the exit. This mistake should not be a big surprise and should not have lead to any contact as I would have expected Chirlie to either lift and/or go wide. For me it looks like an avoidable incident.
Incident lap 29 - Vincenzo and Chirlie
The first part of this video I think most would have regarded as good fighting. I think Vincenzo's initial attempt to pass was predictable, although he missed the apex he left enough room in the exit, and the little side to side contact was within limits.
Unfortunatly the battle ends with that what seems to me like an unfair and aggressive move from Chirlie, forcing his way past Vincenzo with a shunt. I would have expected him to continue the battle, making sure he left room on his outside.
"Incident" lap 35 - Vincenzo and Chirlie
Third pass on the same spot as earlier. As on lap 29 I think this attempt was predictable. and Vincenzo also makes a tight apex. Chirlie does not seem to know that Vincenzo is there and there is some harmless side to side contact and again also in the exit where Vincenzo could have left more room.
All in all I think most would rate this battle as good racing action.
My analysis is done as neutral and objective as I am able to do. Remember that it is done without knowing what any of the parties acctually were thinking, and that is a big weakness and can lead to mistakes.
The lessons learned in my view is:
Vincenzo:Consider the first attempt as boarderline as it probably was unexpected. Also, remember to leave room in the exit if you pass on the inside.
Chirlie: Remember, you want to avoid contact at all cost. If you think someone makes an unfair attempt to pass, allow them to do so and do not let it affect your safety concerns/agressivenes, and rather address it in the forum after the race.