RDRC S8 Round 2 - Rally Sweden (13th - 19th February 2017)

[STaLLiOnO]

I'd like to bring something up. This Site gets a lot of Rally Drivers here. One thing is, those Drivers are out of others Driving ability. Perhaps, you guys should break the Drivers in to Driver Tiers per Lap Times. That way, us slow guys have a better shot at winning Stages and, perhaps the Rally itself.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

I'd like to bring something up. This Site gets a lot of Rally Drivers here. One thing is, those Drivers are out of others Driving ability. Perhaps, you guys should break the Drivers in to Driver Tiers per Lap Times. That way, us slow guys have a better shot at winning Stages and, perhaps the Rally itself.

That won't be done, to try to sort out some sort of handicap based on speed, would be near impossible with the difference of the rallies.

Now, what we used to do when we ran this in RBR was to grade drivers, and restrict different classes to different grades.
Grade 1 drivers could only drive for the overall positions (they could choose between whatever car, but would not compete for class positions, only overall)
Grade 2 drivers could choose between almost all cars, and they would also compete in the class that they chose.
Grade 3 drivers could not drive the fastest cars, but could drive for class points in the class they chose.
Grade 4 drivers could only choose between the two slowest classes, and would of course drive for class points as well.

Then we would also have point tables for all classes and all grades. This grading system was simplified for the last two seasons with RBR and switched to "pro" and "amateur". But with the same theory behind it.

Now, this worked very well when we had used the same game for many many years, people qualified on previous results, and for new drivers they could choose to do a grading event or just go in to the lower class. We could also use "admin-power" and move people between grades if they showed way too high speed for a low class.

We decided against this for Season 8 for a couple of reasons, firstly, it was a completely new game, and grading from other games would be wrong to use. Also, we never thought we would get a record-high entry and certainly not well over 4x as many drivers as the previous record. So we wanted to give people the chance to drive the car of their choice.
Like I've said before, if we knew that we'd get 400+ drivers in this season, some of the rules would've been different from what they are, but while we can, and have changed some rules, we can't change the fundamentals and still keep everything fair.
Also, I am quite happy we didn't got down that "grading" route. Having almost 400 drivers to grading events and so on, would be a massive amount of extra work.

How it will be done for DiRT 4* is a bit hard to say, as using gradings from DiRT Rally might be unfair, but who knows. I think we already have quite a few ideas for next season

*There are no guarantee that DiRT 4 will be used, but we certainly hope that it will

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

in my humble opinion grading only makes sense if it keeps players in a tournament rather than dropping out because their chances of victory are unrealistic. let's have a look at this issue again after 2/3 of the events have been done.
I'm sure it is a freaking load of admin work to do and also will raise a lot of bad tempers.
iRacing excells at putting you into a certain grid, but the system is running in the background in every single official race session (and time trials). Bar this, I see no way to do it. But wasn't a system like this mentioned for dirt4? And will we then have the same "rating tanking" issue many leagues in iRacing face? Where people play their worst for a week to get a bad ranking and then thrash the competition on the day it counts? I'd keep my hands off it and just keep it the way it is (says the chap who was always ranked in the lowest class in the RBR leagues here , and had a blast)

 

[pigloaf]

I'd like to bring something up. This Site gets a lot of Rally Drivers here. One thing is, those Drivers are out of others Driving ability. Perhaps, you guys should break the Drivers in to Driver Tiers per Lap Times. That way, us slow guys have a better shot at winning Stages and, perhaps the Rally itself.

I've accepted I'm never* going to win a stage - so I've adjusted my goals to make it enjoyable. I race with a few other teams - so I enjoy tracking my results against them. Pick a few drivers around you on the table and make it your goal to beat them. You can get a tonne of satisfaction from beating a rival or getting a position you've targeted.
*unless a dozen drivers above me crash out

 

[Thomas Lambaerts]

The same here, every stage I lost from 5 up to 30 seconds on top 4. But I had fun going from 8th to 5th, ending 6th. But I had no chance at all for the victory. Race against the people around you. With all these entries, theres bound to be people around your skill.

 

[emuga12]

It's the same as in real rallying, you just pick some names you know and compare with them.

 

[UMC 22]

I hate the idea of grading and splitting drivers into separate tiers. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see any real incentive or sense of achievement from winning a low tier when you know there's whole groups of drivers that are far faster and better than you are. I'd much rather come 50th/100 than 1st/50 in "tier 2", and there would be great satisfaction in occasionally hitting the top 50 as you improve rather than just hitting a wall.

As others have said, racing is about setting your own goals. If you're not good enough to win, lower your aim. Race those around you. Give yourself targets of beating Mr X, or getting as close to position X as possible. Me, I know I'm crap at rallying. So, my only target for this season is a points finish. Came very close at Monte, nowhere near this time, but my favourite locations are still to come. Fingers crossed!

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Great to see feedback guys!

I personally thought that the aspect of "promotion" through the grades was a real motivational factor, but I've been wrong before.

 

[LuMue]

Great to see feedback guys!

I personally thought that the aspect of "promotion" through the grades was a real motivational factor, but I've been wrong before.

Well Ole,
it depends on what every single driver thinks about it... A "promotion" through the grades can also be challenging and motivating (for me).

At least every driver has to set himself goals to reach and, most of all, he has to be fun while driving!!!!!! That's what it is all about!

 

[Cody White]

I'd like to bring something up. This Site gets a lot of Rally Drivers here. One thing is, those Drivers are out of others Driving ability. Perhaps, you guys should break the Drivers in to Driver Tiers per Lap Times. That way, us slow guys have a better shot at winning Stages and, perhaps the Rally itself.

Hope you arent looking for a participation awards as well...I mean, I'm pretty sure I wont even register a point in any of these events...but its not about that (be cool, this is just a joke). Its a challenge and its fun to see where I finish. Simple goals...I tried to better my finish position from the first round at Monaco and have done that in Sweden. The promotion system would be fun...maybe do like the f1 league guys that run an f1 tier and and a GP2 tier and have the WRC Class and WRC 2 class? I dont know the answer...honestly it isnt broken so I wouldnt fix it...

 

[svt4cam]

@Ole Marius Myrvold Is there another 2 stage Greek "test" rally attached to the back of Sweden to keep the data there?

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

@Ole Marius Myrvold Is there another 2 stage Greek "test" rally attached to the back of Sweden to keep the data there?

Indeed I find that is a good way to both have a "shakedown" for the next rally, and just a double safeguard in case Codemasters suddenly decide to make it hard to use expired eventId's. One thing is for sure, Codemasters do much strange things!

 

[Thomas Lambaerts]

Great to see feedback guys!

I personally thought that the aspect of "promotion" through the grades was a real motivational factor, but I've been wrong before.

It would be fun to try and promote yourself like in football. But yeah 300+ participants... Maybe in dirt 4? If it holds up to the hype. And after a qualification championship? I think it's fine as it is but i am biased by being close to the top.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

It would be fun to try and promote yourself like in football. But yeah 300+ participants... Maybe in dirt 4? If it holds up to the hype. And after a qualification championship? I think it's fine as it is but i am biased by being close to the top.

I guess it eventually comes down to a majority or the 'feel' of the crew Anyway, usually we've had a "Rules Discussion" thread between seasons, it might be time to bring that out again when this season are getting close to it's end.

 

[Deleted member 217114]

If you want tiers you need to make tiers by usage of camera, transmission, dor, ffb and all that.

Someone running 1080 dor with softlock and pattern with clutch will always be slower than someone who uses 360 dor and seq or pattern without clutch. etc etc. The same with triples, vr and single screen. Also someone who drives in bonnet has better sight than someone who uses cockpit with true fov, etc. Also bonnetcam straighten the corners a bit, so they have an advantage too. etc etc.

Same with assists and much more to name. In general simracing is kinda f*cked up cause everyone has a different setup/rig and settings so everyone is in a advantage and disadvantage to each other.

So we either need tiers like suggested or we need to have championships in real life with all the same screens, sim-peripherals, fov, etc aka a lan-party.

 

[Mac K]

I'm new to all of this, but personally I like the current system. If I was put into a "tier" I would most likely be less motivated to improve, and perhaps even compete as a result. Bench marking myself against the best drivers is more rewarding, and that's what keeps me coming back and wanting to get better, doesn't matter if it's Dirt Rally, iRacing, Rfactor, etc.

 

[Hal Burns]

The same here, every stage I lost from 5 up to 30 seconds on top 4. But I had fun going from 8th to 5th, ending 6th. But I had no chance at all for the victory. Race against the people around you. With all these entries, theres bound to be people around your skill.

I had fun coming in 179th.......I had a couple of other drivers to shoot for to keep it interesting...and I did not DNF, which was a step up. Just pick your class and go. I picked a FWD Ibiza because my brain can't keep up with a WRC car.

 

[bogani]

If you want tiers you need to make tiers by usage of camera, transmission, dor, ffb and all that.

Someone running 1080 dor with softlock and pattern with clutch will always be slower than someone who uses 360 dor and seq or pattern without clutch. etc etc. The same with triples, vr and single screen. Also someone who drives in bonnet has better sight than someone who uses cockpit with true fov, etc. Also bonnetcam straighten the corners a bit, so they have an advantage too. etc etc.

Same with assists and much more to name. In general simracing is kinda f*cked up cause everyone has a different setup/rig and settings so everyone is in a advantage and disadvantage to each other.

So we either need tiers like suggested or we need to have championships in real life with all the same screens, sim-peripherals, fov, etc aka a lan-party.

Bonnet view does not actually straighten anything. You might perceive the road as more straight in bonnet if you use a lower FOV than 0.6 in cockpit cam though. Bonnet/dash is locked to default FOV of 0.6.

And sequential in DR is actually slower in most cars as the auto clutch that kicks in is slow. H-shifter with clutch is the fastest way to shift in DR if used without mistakes.

 

[Thomas Lambaerts]

@RinusDirtRally tbh the biggest advantage some ppl have over me is actually the bonnetcam. As I am in cockpit mode without HUD. The watersplash is a big disadvantage with cockpitmode. Waiting for the wipers to clear the water takes ages if you are trying to not hit those gates. I started DR with only about 420degrees rotation, but now I am at 720. I drive way more precise this way.

 

[LuMue]

If the next RDRC is played on DIRT 4, it would be great if the stage creator would be used for this!!
Everone can drive the stages in Dirt Rally over and over again and learn them (nearly) by heart. But it's much more realistic if the drivers haven't raced a stage before...so everyone has to be more patient. You know the distance to drive and that's it. I'm sure this would bring different results for some of us...!
Then you can train on the surface where the stages take place...everything else is a surprise - even the Co with the pacenotes