PC1 Project Cars First Impressions Review

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Background

Got my start in GT1-2 then moved on to Forza 1-4. Spent a good 3 years or so doing two race series a week in Forza 4. Also raced GTR and Nascar PC sims years ago. Then made the jump to PC and iRacing. Been doing iRacing semi serious for about 18 months. with a few othes on the side for fun (Dirt rally etc)



Intro
well since the begining ive had a love/hate with iRacing. the lack of grip is so unrealistic and i hate the tip toe way you have to go around the tracks. the V6 tire model was a huge improvement in the right direction, but still has a way to go.
Ive been looking into Assetto Corsa(AC) and Project Cars(PC) the last 6 months and finally pulled the trigger on PC.
AC had the better car list, along with new car packs every few months. It also had the C7R which was HUGE for me. also had better ambient sounds like tranny wine etc. AC also had the bigger following. however PC had the visuals i was looking and richer sound tones in all the comparisons id watched.
Ive jotted down a few notes from my first few hours on PC.



General
One thing that worried me was PC was known to have poorer performance on AMD GPUs and in Windows 7. I have both. That held me off a few weeks, but ended up not being a problem for my setup(i7/8gb GPU).
I also liked the Rain/Night/Beauty of PC vs AC.
I set it up in Pro mode, no assists and 80% AI difficulty.
I dont care for the automated driving when you enter the pits.
Tons of options, and options for the options, you can customize everything in the game.
I found the driving a tad too easy, but also very satisfying. that being said i finished dead last in every single race. twice i got second to last.
Fast load times. Typically 6-7 seconds
Tracks not laser scanned. i did notice a few tiny differences in a couple tracks. were a straight would be a tiny bit shorter, or a corner slightly tighter. but 99% of the time i couldnt tell the difference.
Gearing seems really tall. 2nd gear would do 100mph in most cars. also a weird thing when stoped and trying to move in 1st or Reverse. the rpms would go straight to red line and the car would barely move. then after a couple times of this it would only do like super slow accelleration like a massive TCS system or something. but this only happened after a spin from a stop or something.
I have not go into tuning, or FFB tweaks or anything yet. basically driven as default.



One of the big things that drew me to PC is the Helmet view. WOW! turn all the HUD off and the Immersion is absolutly insane! The high pitched sounds are muffled just like wearing a real helmet, and the driver turns his head into the apex and also tilts his head into the corner too!(both with adjustable levels) also the focus blur is really cool. love this effect. It does make it a tad hard to tell how much steering input you have in the car/need at first, but you get the hang of it after a bit. worth it. I think you can also adjust how much head movement there is, bumps, speed etc.



And the video that single handedly got me so stoked about PC was this video. This is the **** i signed up for when i got into sim racing. Ive watched this many times and it gets me so amped. just awesome.



Physics
Id say it has a hair too much grip and a bit too easy at times. this changes weither your in a GT VS street car, but the Race cars are probly a tad too easy at times.
The Braking also is a bit too strong/easy most of the times as well. i found myself braking way too early most of the time, as the brakes were more effective than they probly should be. also even at the limits of threshold braking its uneventful. the car is not moving around trying to kill you like it should be at that limit, its just planted and calm.
There is kind of a lack of feel. there is no road feel on half the cars/tracks and this kinda leads to a lack of connectedness with the car at times.
For now im gonna rate the physics some where between a Forza/Turismo and Dirt Rally.



Cars
Most of them seemed too tough in crashes.
my first few combos i tried the game on:



I am very familiar with the RUF GT3 @ Laguna seca from iRacing so i wanted to try that combo first. Cornering Grip seemed almost unlimited at first compared to iRacing. but a rear engine RUF GT3 car should almost feel that way. im sure driving a real one wed say the same. Accell and braking had slightly less grip, than corning, but still a TON. I tried same car at Brands hatch and noticed less grip than Laguna. but still good.



Next up BMW 1 series street car @ Catalunya. definatly grip limited. unsteered and slide and lower performance like a street car should. seemed slow compared to the RUF of course, but had a good sense of speed at the same time.



BMW Z4 GT3 less grip than RUF, about right.

Then i went for the holy grail from above video. been waiting for this. BMW 320 Turbo Group 5 @ Nordschleife. Wow! orgasmic
biggrin.png
. had a huge sense of speed, but things didnt come at me too fast that you felt you could react or handle them. plenty of time to setup and take corner, but felt like you were flying too. first thought it had too much grip, but then i over cooked a few corners and it would understeer and go offtrack. I could really FEEL the turbo and power in the car. cool feeling. i later tried this combo again and while not quite as big of an impession as the first time it was still sweet.



Mustang Boss 302 @ Road Atlanta in the rain. Obviously lower grip in wet. noticable big time. upper RPM sounds need work. good FFB/road feel. Fun but lots of work/driving.



Ariel Atom V8 @ Monza. just right grip. had to slow and counter steer in corners on the street tires. had to be really carefull on the gas.



Ford MK @ Brands Hatch. Impossible to drive. looped every corner no matter how careful.



Mustang Cobra Trans Am Racer. Lively and a blast



Sauber C9 @ Catalunya. Awesome car! slow shifts though.



Force Feedback
Mostly just resistance
no road feel on most cars. some cars and tracks do have it though
the wheel moves appropriatly when you lock up the rears and slide, or let go and let the wheel self center at the exit of a drift.
you can feel the curbs and rumble strips when you drive over them.
no braking FFB
no traction FFB
seems like you almost have to go offtrack to get much FFB of any kind.



Sound
richer (deep tones) than AC, but lacks some of the smaller effects of AC such as tranny wine.
the Tire sounds at the edge of limit sound great and realistic. Over the limit the squeels are bad and cheesy.
Sounds change with view! chase cam has more exhaust note, helmet cam is muffled, etc. all different tones to each.
gravel sounds like maracas at times
Engine sounds sound a bit digital and cheesy at times, especially higher rpms.



AI
respectful
will go out of there way not to hit you, including going off course. for both passing, and if you wreck in front of them.



Weather
Rain and thunderstorms are awesome
wet track effects grip for sure
Great effects
colors and outside are grey and dull like real life outside cabin in rain. inside cabin still vibrant contrast. pretty real.



Graphics
no contest its pretty. all the lighting effects and little particles. damn nice visually.
love the focus blur on the helmet cam
im running with everything maxed out. no Frame rate issue. no clue what FR is but not glitchy at all. smooth. Im running a single 1080 monitor.
brake lights are too bright
the one thing that was set to low default, was the active grass or something like that. i tried this set to high and i had floating grass up at eye level and hgue bug. i have it just set to off now.
had a few lighting artifacts (windsheild reflections) that would get stuck on the screen when you first started on a few tracks, but go away as soon as a new reflection hits the windsheild.
the live marbles are badass. move and get kicked up when you drive over them. also the small ones even roll when the air of your car goes by them. awesome touch. same goes with leaves on tracks with trees.
smoke is very real. this is tough to do. it appears, drifts, and dissappears very realistically.



Online
only spent a few minutes online so far.
1st lobby i entered i got booted
2nd lobby my car appeared to have been dropped from an airplane. just tubbling way up in the air.
3rd lobby worked. appeared to be a practice or something. joined mid session.
lets you create your own lobby, as well as do private lobbys. choose your own cars/tracks/weather etc.
didnt appear to be many online only 2 lobbys with people in them.



Closing
Ill anxious to get more time to see if PC gets the thumbs up or down.
Curious how often new cars would come.
they appear to do updates every month even with PC2 coming. every 2-3 updates appear to have new cars/tracks.
also not sure if it will hold up long term as a sim ill run.
definatly enjoying it for now.
 

Andy_J

I hate Race cheats ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I don`t think title 'simcade' is something to be taken in offensive way .. it is basically sim which is targeting wider audience and make it more accesible for "average joe" player .. it doesn`t mean that its simulation is less complex (we all know pC has pretty complex physic model), it doesn`t make it a worse game...it is just more accessible, more forgiving in some regards ..

Spot on. I too don't understand why some get so upset about that title. But hey ho, that's life. Embrace it folks. It's an enjoyable fun race game. :thumbsup:
 
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Deleted member 113561

  • Deleted member 113561

and you`re doing it again .. falling to false assumptions .. :) .. I didn`t even think about consoles while writing it ..

and why are you are still comparing it to AC like ti is some holy grail of sims .. AC is getting better but it is still trying to find the right tyre model .. and is far from being done
I think you need to be more specific when writing:
it is basically sim which is targeting wider audience and make it more accesible for "average joe" player
Can be easily interpretated different than you meant
With wider audience in especially this case i can assume you mean consoles ... its not my fault i jump to this assumption if you dont be specific enough :) Btw Assetto Corsa would be wide audience with console release aswell and you know that.

I dont judge AC at all atm, besides FFB, which is imo bad done (ie too much canned effects)
 
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Deleted member 113561

  • Deleted member 113561

Spot on. I too don't understand why some get so upset about that title. But hey ho, that's life. Embrace it folks. It's an enjoyable fun race game. :thumbsup:
Its like I would call you halfdumb! (this shouldnt imply that youre it)

___
sry for 2x post
 
Its like I would call you halfdumb! (this shouldnt imply that youre it)

___
sry for 2x post
simcade doesn`t need to be 50:50 sim:cade :) .. more like calling him a fifteenthdumb :)

also it is your fault you are reading what is not written :) if I wanna say something about consoles I would simply write it .. never played on console so I`m not gonna coment on its playerbase ...

> Where are you going?
- I`m going to the bank...need some cash
> Why would you rob the bank?
- I`m not gonna rob the bank!
> You could just tell me you have money issues ..
- I`m not ...
> ok ok, don`t blame me .. you didn`t tell you are not going for robbery
 
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Deleted member 113561

  • Deleted member 113561

simcade doesn`t need to be 50:50 sim:cade :) .. more like calling him a fifteenthdumb :)

also it is your fault you are reading what is not written :) if I wanna say something about consoles I would simply write it .. never played on console so I`m not gonna coment on its playerbase ...

> Where are you going?
- I`m going to the bank...need some cash
> Why would you rob the bank?
- I`m not gonna rob the bank!
> You could just tell me you have money issues ..
- I`m not ...
> ok ok, don`t blame me .. you didn`t tell you are not going for robbery
ähhhhhm wroooong ... its logical to assume that wide audience + pcars + ac = consoles ... but obviously you dont understand what your fault was and try to blame it on me.
 
ähhhhhm wroooong ... its logical to assume that wide audience + pcars + ac = consoles ... but obviously you dont understand what your fault was and try to blame it on me.
:) i understand how you could get misleaded but I`m saying you it is not what I ment and if I wanna make those implications I would just say something about adapting to console players .. I wrote something, you get it wrong, I explained it and there it should ended ... you don`t need to convince me about something I know I didn`t ment .. also you are the one who put AC in that equation .. not me :) all Ive said is that:
- pCars is targeting wider audience - not just HC sim players (I dont care on what platform) .. that is true .. since begining of developement I was looking forward to finaly have good simcade on PC (never through developement I was suspecting devs to go for hardcore sim)
- it doesn`t mean it has less complex physics and tyre model .. also true.
- it doesn`t make it a bad game ... that is upon you if you like it or not
- it is not offensive to say about game that is simcade .... well I don`t think devs would be offended as long as money are comming ...
- it is more forgiving in some ways .... also true

what you get: You are saing that cause of console release, pCars can`t be a pure sim and cause AC is gonna be released on consoles too you are basicaly saying that AC is simcade ..
 
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Deleted member 113561

  • Deleted member 113561

what you get: You are saing that cause of console release, pCars can`t be a pure sim and cause AC is gonna be released on consoles too you are basicaly saying that AC is simcade ..
Thats would be true if PCARS is a simcade - what it isnt
- it is not offensive to say about game that is simcade .... well I don`t think devs would be offended as long as money are comming ...
Not only is it offensive for the devs (not everyone is after the money) it is also offensive for the players
 
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I would gladly apologize to any of them .. but if somebody is offended by me thinking that pCars is more simcade than pure sim than he has much bigger problem than this .. seriously ..
Now what should we do about those who are offended by pCars occasionaly being called sim ... jesus ...

I rather apologize to OP for this discussion and kudos to SMS for having such a passionate fan ..
It is going nowhere and offtopic so see ya on track I guess...
 

Andy_J

I hate Race cheats ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
.. but if somebody is offended by me thinking that pCars is more simcade than pure sim than he has much bigger problem than this .. seriously ..
Now what should we do about those who are offended by pCars occasionaly being called sim ... jesus ...

That's the problem right there. They are actually offended. Hard to believe I know.

ps, I'm offended if you call Pcars a sim. Really offended. So offended I am going to check myself in to PA (Pcars Anonymous). :rolleyes::whistling::laugh:
 
so after this "discussion" and realizing I still have pCars installed I decided to do some testing with 5.0 update(since I haven`t test new update that much) and to be honest I had to double check if I don`t have assist allowed .. and I`m not one of those who expect modern race cars to be hard to drive (at least some of them) ... full speed hard turn and fast full throttle lift off and ... nothing .. formula rookie with basicaly no down force is glued and happy in first lap on cold tyres ...same with AUDI LMP TDI ... you can brake mid corners, lift off like crazy .. invisible hand is helping you .. and things like this are what makes me believe it indeed is simcade .. some cars are leaning more towards sim (GT3, some old formulas, some road car, ..) some more towards arcade (LMP, radicals, modern formulas, f.rookie, some road cars, lotus 78, ...) and some feels broken...but in generally you can abuse physics more than you should... still fun to drive though .. specially that rookie formula and slower cars like ginetta GT4 ..
 
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Deleted member 113561

  • Deleted member 113561

so after this "discussion" and realizing I still have pCars installed I decided to do some testing with 5.0 update(since I haven`t test new update that much) and to be honest I had to double check if I don`t have assist allowed .. and I`m not one of those who expect modern race cars to be hard to drive (at least some of them) ... full speed hard turn and fast full throttle lift off and ... nothing .. formula rookie with basicaly no down force is glued and happy in first lap on cold tyres ...same with AUDI LMP TDI ... you can brake mid corners, lift off like crazy .. invisible hand is helping you .. and things like this are what makes me believe it indeed is simcade .. some cars are leaning more towards sim (GT3, some old formulas, some road car, ..) some more towards arcade (LMP, radicals, modern formulas, f.rookie, some road cars ...)...but in generally you can abuse physics more than you should... still fun to drive though .. specially that rookie formula and slower cars like ginetta GT4 ..
Are you kidding me?
LMP1s, Modern Formulas have all downforce like hell. This is absolutely realistic. Maybe you should go inform yourself better.
Further: As previously very often mentioned: Default Setups are all high downforce. Make some of your own and quick ones and it gets more challenging.
With that said your opinion can be ignored.
Its annoying to see people testing it for 10min each car without even properly testing it.
 
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well yes .. lot of downforce but you can`t just do crazy lift offs or harder braking in mid fast corners ...at least in real life in prototypes (according to prototype drivers not me), nor can you just floor F1 with cold tyres out of corners :) well at least we know why you consider it to be sim ..
And fact that you can without braking go as quick as you can press paddle shifter down from 6th to 2nd gear without upseting your LMP1 car is realistic to?
Or like tyres overheated to 160 don`t feel like on ice, like in real life?
.. sorry it is not sim, and I`m glad it is not .. cause that makes it just what I want and expect it to be since begining of developement

I did a lot of my setups, usually running with lower aero (I just had blast with Lotus 78 with 0 aero on Silverstone .. still nice and safe but so much fun to drive :D specialy with how game makes heel&toe easy for you).. if I`m not able to make conslusion about car after I had 10+ full length races with different setups on different tracks I wont be able to make up mi mind ever ... this last testing was just to see changes made in last update ..
 
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Deleted member 113561

  • Deleted member 113561

(according to prototype drivers not me)
Source?
nor can you just floor F1 with cold tyres out of corners
1st there is no official F1 car in the game
2nd try exiting the pits with Formula B and floor the throttle
And fact that you can without braking go as quick as you can press paddle shifter down from 6th to 2nd gear without upseting your LMP1 car is realistic to?
Setup dependent - ie. Brake Mapping, Brake Balance, how you brake, Downforce, Tires, etc etc etc
Or like tyres overheated to 160 don`t feel like on ice, like in real life?
You managed to overheat tires to 160°C in Project CARS? Now I know that youre bullshitting pretty hard POSTEDIT: There will be some tire model changes - Its pretty damn hard to get past 140°C in PCARS
.. sorry it is not sim, and I`m glad it is not .. cause that makes it just what I want and expect it to be since begining of developement
It is a Sim, it always will be. Definition gives me right. RL-Drivers give me right. The poll in this forum gives me right. The crybabies here just dont wanna accept that it is Sim. Its okay to have opinion. Telling lies or spreading lies isnt. And as crybabies never post facts or evidence i would say there opinion have pretty much no value at all.
 
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- interview with principal (or however is his possition callaed) of Nissan team and comented test of Radical, also one of reasons why nissan LMP crashed on le mans (according to nissan), and various different media in last few years ...

- you`ve got me there on sematics .. but lets pretend that A is 1, B is 2, C is 3 (thanx Codemasters :rolleyes:)

- mechanics and universe physics dependent (no braking involved .. except engine obviously)

- spin on one place with LMP till they get to desired temeperature ..
EDIT: couldn`t recreate when reading from telemetry .. couldn`t get more than 130 before engine blow .. so either my bad reading or different conditions (didn`t manage to spin that fast without wheel pluged in..low lock on keyboard I think) .. anyway 130 is more than enough to be icey ..

- well I have my opinion, you`re free to have yours .. it is accualy not bad thing that it differs (it is just funny that we are both defending the same game and yet we manage to have an 'argue' <- I hope you are not taking it seriously enough to call it argue)
btw pool is saying that 36.7% thinks it is more simcade (33.3% is for true sim) .. not that it has any real value .. just like your or mine opinion ..

Well we both like this game and I guess nothing will prevent you enjoying your sim and me enjoying my simcade ..;) have a lovely day
 
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Source?

1st there is no official F1 car in the game
2nd try exiting the pits with Formula B and floor the throttle

Setup dependent - ie. Brake Mapping, Brake Balance, how you brake, Downforce, Tires, etc etc etc

You managed to overheat tires to 160°C in Project CARS? Now I know that youre bullshitting pretty hard


It is a Sim, it always will be. Definition gives me right. RL-Drivers give me right. The poll in this forum gives me right. The crybabies here just dont wanna accept that it is Sim. Its okay to have opinion. Telling lies or spreading lies isnt. And as crybabies never post facts or evidence i would say there opinion have pretty much no value at all.
Neuer, please stop now mate. You're becoming obsessed with defending your favourite game. It doesn't matter what people say, it's not going to change the world or your game! Just get on and enjoy your racing.
 
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Deleted member 113561

  • Deleted member 113561

Neuer, please stop now mate. You're becoming obsessed with defending your favourite game. It doesn't matter what people say, it's not going to change the world or your game! Just get on and enjoy your racing.
Im not obsessed with defending PCARS. Favorite game? I have a few of them :D
I wont stop, i hate it when people spread lies! I dont want this game to change fundamentally. Its a good Sim. Changing the world? Mmmhhh I could influence that. On a noticable level on my own? No (lets say no at the moment). Together with others? Yes.
- interview with principal (or however is his possition callaed) of Nissan team and comented test of Radical, also one of reasons why nissan LMP crash on le mans (according to nissan), and various different media in last few years ...
Sry but Nissan is no reliable source, they just got into LMP-Racing and failed horribly at their debut. Still post sources - not some sentence without anything to back it up.
- you`ve got me there on sematics .. but lets pretend that A is 1, B is 2, C is 3 (thanx Codemasters)
A is based on F1 2011. It got tested during development by a real F1 test driver. There are rumours that Lewis Hamilton tested it aswell.
B is a bit based on Formula Nippon, but i think mostly an own creation.
C is completely a product of the community.
Formula Gulf is based on the real Formula Gulf and got tested by them aswell.
Formula Rookie, idk on what it is based - but as with A - C it has an injection of PCARS community

Besides the Gulf and A those Formula cars shouldnt be copies of real Formula Cars, so its difficult to say: Formula B is not realistic cause it behaves way different than a GP2 or Formula 2.
- spin on one place with LMP till they get to desired temeperature ..
EDIT: couldn`t recreate when reading from telemetry .. couldn`t get more than 130 before engine blow .. so either my bad reading or different conditions (didn`t manage to spin that fast without wheel pluged in..low lock on keyboard) .. anyway 130 is more than enough to be icey ..
Turn off mechanical failures & switch to visual damage and then your engine wont blow. Actually there will be some tire model changes in Patch 6.0:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?41348-The-Physics-of-Japanese-Cars-Expansion
Casey Ringley;1157283 said:
...
Last but not least, patch 6 includes some recalibration of tire heating models. Some folks in a G40 league here found an issue where a slight increase in pressure could cause an extreme amount of overheating in the tires. We tracked it down to a fix in a change in how the carcass generates heat at low inflation pressure, but this sent us down a rabbit hole of checking that no cars had completely broken tires with the change. Things are much better with the fix in place. Temperature balance front to rear looks more correct on most cars and it removes something of an exploit that was possible in car setup. You’ll need to take more care with setting tire pressures now and can expect a larger response from those changes.

With the fix, tires heat faster, more predictably, and will really punish you for poor driving and setup in a way they didn't before. A lot of tires could move to more standardized values without needing lots of extra calibration just to get the right front to rear temperature balance. Before, if rear tires started at a lower pressure, they could run up against a limit near ideal pressure and lose heat; ending up cooler than the front even if the handling balance was strongly biased to oversteer. Now they get nice, consistent heating and show a reasonably higher carcass temp than non-driven fronts, which then filters through to hotter tread. Generally the temps are feeling more representative of handling balance now. Cool stuff.

While in there recalibrating the heat, I merged in some ideas we've been playing with for pCARS 2. Biggest of those is that most slick tires (those based on our SLICK_GT3 template) now have a larger temperature range for the rubber of 0-200°C. This fits in with stuff we've learned from rallycross where tires under extreme stress creep up to 180C or more. This has a pretty cool result of accentuating the camber effects of a tire so the inside edge reads significantly hotter as it should. Implies that our the old cap around 150-165C was limiting heat gain on the inside edge but not the outside. Also does a very good job at punishing the driver for abusive technique.

Some tire sets also had slight wear rate recalibration to fit with changes brought on by the new heat model. Anything that did change stayed at the same starting grip as before, but some will wear faster now and with a stronger grip loss effect. Prototype work on the upcoming V8 Supercar helped to hone in the right reference point for grip loss on a heavily worn tire. Generally the cost is about 2s over a 2min lap at the end of a run. Go longer than that and you're likely to find yourself driving it off the performance cliff and losing heaps of time.
Atm at 130°C tires you have noticable less grip and very noticable more tire wear. I agree it isnt enough of a griploss when you have 130°C.

- well I have my opinion, you`re free to have yours .. it is accualy not bad thing that it differs (it is just funny that we are both defending the same game and yet we manage to have an 'argue' <- I hope you are not taking it seriously enough to call it argue)
btw pool is saying that 36.7% thinks it is more simcade (33.3% is for true sim) .. not that it has any real value .. just like your or mine opinion ..

Well we both like this game and I guess nothing will prevent you enjoying your sim and me enjoying my simcade ..;) have a lovely day
Its a good discussion with you ... many people on the internet cant discuss on serious levels, it nice to discuss with someone who can.
:) you too :D
 
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Im not obsessed with defending PCARS. Favorite game? I have a few of them :D
I wont stop, i hate it when people spread lies! I dont want this game to change fundamentally. Its a good Sim. Changing the world? Mmmhhh I could influence that. On a noticable level on my own? No (lets say no at the moment). Together with others? Yes.

Sry but Nissan is no reliable source, they just got into LMP-Racing and failed horribly at their debut. Still post sources - not some sentence without anything to back it up.

A is based on F1 2011. It got tested during development by a real F1 test driver. There are rumours that Lewis Hamilton tested it aswell.
B is a bit based on Formula Nippon, but i think mostly an own creation.
C is completely a product of the community.
Formula Gulf is based on the real Formula Gulf and got tested by them aswell.
Formula Rookie, idk on what it is based - but as with A - C it has an injection of PCARS community

Besides the Gulf and A those Formula cars shouldnt be copies of real Formula Cars, so its difficult to say: Formula B is not realistic cause it behaves way different than a GP2 or Formula 2.

Turn off mechanical failures & switch to visual damage and then your engine wont blow. Actually there will be some tire model changes in Patch 6.0:
Atm at 130°C tires you have noticable less grip and very noticable more tire wear. I agree it isnt enough of a griploss when you have 130°C.


Its a good discussion with you ... many people on the internet cant discuss on serious levels, it nice to discuss with someone who can.
:) you too :D
You sound like a used car salesman, shift 2.5 arcade.
 
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