Pedal recommendations - but requirements are not the norm

Hi, I am still using my (hall sensor and spring modified) Logitech pedals after many years, despite updating all the hardware around them multiple times over the years. I now realise that the pedals are holding me back. And it is not just the feel of the brakes - it is also the limited amount of throttle travel available. The more limited the throttle travel, the harder it is to make those required microscopic (in relative terms) throttle adjustments.

Having said that, I am quite limited in what pedals I can use. Partly due to age (I am almost 60) and also due to some minor spinal problems I cannot use pedals that require high brake pressures. Without some way of quantifying that, I suppose I would be looking for something that can be adjusted to provide a slightly higher braking force than on a performance road car but without getting into the realm where a driver basically is doing the equivalent of putting their entire body weight on one leg repeatedly many times for half an hour or more. So I am probably guessing something like 20 kg might be a reasonable target. I realise this will compromise my speed but it is surely going to be a lot better than the Logitech pedals. But again, a better throttle is just as important as the brake is.

So here are the parameters I have set myself. I am bamboozled by all the pedals available and it is just overwhelming to try and go through everything out there these days! Also, I only use Race07 and have no desire to move to anything else - and it is still running on an (internet disabled) Windows 7 machine for the time being (and I cannot update that any time soon).

1. Throttle travel needs to be similar to a modern road car. Logitech throttle travel is probably about 15mm - 20mm short of this.

2. Brake pedal must be adjustable so that maximum braking force can be applied with only about 20 kg pressure (my guess, but the Logitech brake pedal with the Red Eye Spring mod is about road car effort and I feel this is a bit too soft - I can probably up the pressures a litte bit without causing myself any problems).

3. Needs to be mountable to the Trackracer RS6 rig (the current generation with the much improved pedal deck).

4. Needs direct USB connectivity under Windows 7(!).

5. Needs to have a relatively low "foot plate" height profile so that I do not foul my knees on the steering column support. So my heel height "off the deck" must be less than or equal to the existing Logitech pedals.

6. Partly as a consequence to my age / spinal / hip issues I do not need or want a clutch pedal, however as a bonus I would love to put a dead pedal where the clutch pedal would normally go.

I don't really have a budget as such but realistically I wouldn't want to spend more than about $1,000 AUD - so I guess that puts me into the low end of the "semi serious" stuff. But I would rather hear of suggestions that are going to do the job and worry about the money later!

Thanks.
 
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AAAAND the answer is ( as always) Heusinkveld Sprints.:D

This puts you right into "the serious stuff"

At Demon Tweaks below 1000AUD, all the adjustments you could want, proven quality and gloriuos custumer support.

They are listed as compatible with your rig, but it´s not noted if the baseplate is necessary.
Worst case scenario you´d have to drill some bolt holes to mount the pedals without it.
I find a heel rest is not necessary for my footsize, Eu45 with light shoes.

( and yes, I´m a HSV Fanboi :cool:)
 
Thank you. Yes, they certainly look like they tick the boxes and the base plate is perfect as well (as in extremely strong but low profile and will probably fit on the RS6 one way or another.
 
As noted above (obviously in misleading wording) I´d mount the pedals directly to the Trak Racer pedal plate. That way you can set the distance between gas and brake like you want/need it to keep your legs straight and protect your knee.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

AAAAND the answer is ( as always) Heusinkveld Sprints.:D

This puts you right into "the serious stuff"

At Demon Tweaks below 1000AUD, all the adjustments you could want, proven quality and gloriuos custumer support.

They are listed as compatible with your rig, but it´s not noted if the baseplate is necessary.
Worst case scenario you´d have to drill some bolt holes to mount the pedals without it.
I find a heel rest is not necessary for my footsize, Eu45 with light shoes.

( and yes, I´m a HSV Fanboi :cool:)
I would shop around, Heusinkvield used to be the go to pedals, decent still, but there are so many arguably better for the same or cheaper price options these days.
OP, you can start by looking at this is far from exhaustive list.
 
I concurre that the market has grown considerably.

I don´t see the "better pedals cheaper" part.

For the wide range of adjustment Jon want´s/needs the Sprints are still top of the line, all necessary adjustments build in or in the box (improved rubber kit)

Production quality and customer service are unrivaled.

Yes, there´s cheaper of course, but I can´t see better value.

Change my mind, personal experience prefered ;)
 
  • Deleted member 197115

I went through the link to the pedal summaries and I still think the Sprints are the best choice. They cover off every single parameter I have set myself.
I honestly think most if not all sim racing pedals (spare consumer grade Logitech, TM, etc.) offer great range of adjustments fitting your criterias.
Differentiator would be build quality, material, use of bearings (HE refuses to recognize this tech exist), some like Simagic go as far as adding tactile feedback.
I have not tried all pedals on the market an only used Logitech, TM, Fanatec CSP v3, HE Pro, and now Simtrecs. And jump in quality from HE to Simtrecs was mind boggling huge, completely different level of quality and craftsmanship, yes they are slightly more expensive, but IMO that price difference is more than 10 times justified. Plus they meant to be HE flagship Ultimate+ rival, HE Sprint is more budget friendly consumer grade set, which is reflected in choice of materials and build quality. Still good pedals, there are plenty of happy users on this board and HE provides unmatched customer support, just not the default answer to all your pedals need as they used to be.
 
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Every sim peripheral benefits from being interactive and providing feedback the the drivers. There is a recent “Race Beyond Matter” YouTube vid where states that because of this, going forward he recommends two pedal sets - sim magic with feedback and Simucube active pedal. The latter would allow you to make the pedal exactly what you need. I moved from HE Ultimate + to the APs this year. However, it is understood that the decision must also take into account the economics. There are good non-feedback pedals as others have stated.
 
I feel we´re leaving out the TO´s requirements here:

with an antique racing game running on an obsolete operating system there is no need/possibilty for haptic feedback. Should the need arise in the future there are many possibilitys to bring feedback to almost very pedal set on the market.

The trope that Heusinkfelt does not use bearings is just not true, they have been using sliding bearings for their pedals from the beginning.
From a design/engineering standpoint this type of bearing makes more sense because it disributes the forces better and can deal better with small angles of rotation like in pedals.
Ball bearings which are the hype right now are designed for quick rotation like in wheel bearings.
In the end it doesn´t matter because the bearings are overengineered either way and will not get a wear problem, it just irks me when correct design choices are slandered.

If i wanted to fan the flames I´d bring up the question why a designer in2023 would use obsolete tech like potentiometers in a high end pedal when complete wear free alternatives are to be had?;)

So, everyone makes his own decisions, it just should be with all the facts on the table.

Have a nice evening everyone, i´ll now head over to the Racing Club to receive my usual Wednesday drubbing :p
 
  • Deleted member 197115

From a design/engineering standpoint this type of bearing makes more sense because it disributes the forces better and can deal better with small angles of rotation like in pedals.
Ball bearings which are the hype right now are designed for quick rotation like in wheel bearings.
Hype or not, the difference in how smooth and wiggle free pedals operate is quite dramatic, plus no squeaks. :)
Potentiometers are actually better choice for positional reading (clutch, accelerator), when load cell are meant for pressure (brakes). Just the right tool for the right job, longevity also depends on component, ask how many load cells Fanatec users had to replace. I think Simtrecs is using top of the line Vishay, but it was a while back when I was checking on that.

My point was not to pump Simtrecs or any other brand, but suggestion to look at a wider market instead of narrow focusing on HE, which used to be almost a single go to brand for so many years.
 
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In re-reading your original post, I think your ask is much harder based on your requirements. Moving to a more modern game or at least a PC OS that is not ancient would open up a lot. Otherwise, you are likely going to be stuck with what you have or something DIY.
 
In the opening post it´s also stated that upgrading the software is not an option for the foreseeable future ;)

About smooth and wigglefree:

again the use of ball bearings here is design choice strongly influenced by marketing, my Sprints are sturdy with no perceivable side to side play. Not when wiggling them by hand, let alone when driving.
The same with stiction, not perceivable when moving the pedal by hand without rubbers, let alone set up with rubbers. Not even with soft rubbers for long travel.


So let´s just agree to disagree on design choices. I´ll admit that I´ve shown the Simtrecs to a friend who owns a CNC shop as "manufacturing porn" and he also found them beautyfully made.

It didn´t happen for me because of the potentiometers, even "high quality and hard wearing" is still a part that´s degrading over time. And yes, my experience with Thrustmasters (proprietary) potentiometers wear and limited availibility has made me cautious there.

So let´s hope Jon finds the information he needs to make an informed decision.
 
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While I obviously don't mind selling a set of pedals, I should say that our SmartControl software does not work on Windows 7, so you won't be able to change brake force etc. However, all settings are stored on the pedals themselves, so you could use a different device with Windows 10 or 11 to reduce the brake force to 20kg, down from the default 30 of the Sprint pedals.

As for the bearing discussion; older pedals used simple brass slide bearings, with off the shelve axles in them. This obviously required lubrication to stop any squeeks and the off the shelve parts had large tolerances (0.3mm if memory serves me right), which could cause a bit too much play. However, nowadays all moving parts have self-lubricating bearings and everything that fits together with them has tolerances following the spec supplied by the bearing manufacturer.

Regarding loadcells vs. potentiometers (and don't forget about hall effect sensors). Once you go to high quality parts, it doesn't really matter which way you go. It'll depend more on what fits better with your design, in terms of size, looks, simplicity etc. For the application in simracing pedals, they can all be equally good or bad for precision, it just depends on how it all fits together.
 
I was going to ask about stiction and wiggle free as it related to the Sprint pedals so thanks for answering that Stigs2cousin. Actually even my Logitechs have no freeplay or stiction but I did pull them apart about four years ago and obsessively polished the cylinders and pistons to mirror finishes and used expensive synthetic grease when re-assembling. Plus the Logitechs use teflon bearings which still haven't worn after many years! I would probably still be quite happy with my hall sensor and Redeye spring modified Logitechs but I feel they let me down with the throttle travel and when modulating the release of the brakes into a corner. I know that is where I could probably consistently gain a couple of tenths per minute with really good pedals.
 
I know that is where I could probably consistently gain a couple of tenths per minute with really good pedals.
There´s enough statistical data to support that claim.;)

Also don´t underestimate a throttle that is "just right" it really helps to "ride the friction circle" and keep the car on the edge :cool:
 

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