Opinions on my 8020 rig design

[deandsfsdfewsad]

Looking to build a hybrid GT1 rig/ P1-X with slight modifications, let me know your opinion:

Length = 1.35m, width of wheel deck = 0.64m and the height is 0.71m. I'm looking for something sturdy with no flex to hold a SC 2 Pro or something along those lines with a dd wheel and I need a rig to last a long time and provide a base for future upgrades. Planning on adding a Sparco R100 for the reclining back. Let me know what advice you have...

Also, people that own a GT1 or P1-X what improvements would you suggest on the overall chassis design, i'm average hegith just about 6ft and weigh 76kg.

 

[jamescarruthers]

yeah perhaps, I wonder how long it will take to find the ideal seating position

Took me about three attempts - not long.

 

[deandsfsdfewsad]

Took me about three attempts - not long.

In total how long did it take for you to fully construct your rig?

 

[jamescarruthers]

In total how long did it take for you to fully construct your rig?

A couple of hours? It's quick assuming you have the tools.

When I said a couple of attempts — I meant just adjusting the wheel distance and height and pedals.

 

[JimLee]

Not too long ... just work on the getting the shifter location after this

 

[deandsfsdfewsad]

Not too long ... just work on the getting the shifter location after this

View attachment 374613

Good picture can do all of that aside from the inverted pedals, though not sure if you can invert the Fanatec CSL Elite LC

 

[JimLee]

Good picture can do all of that aside from the inverted pedals, though not sure if you can invert the Fanatec CSL Elite LC

I was not really referring to "inverted pedals" just the prescribed relationship of posture, reach and line of sight.

Edit: However, I just looked at the CSL Elite LC and it does lend it self to inverted brake/clutch with regular throttle (much more so than V3). Because each pedal is separate with 4 mounting points, you could build your own custom base out 10 or 20 series 8020 Just another idea. More work for the CAD Model.
Edit 2: Quick mock up side view, you can extend you brake/clutch cables with extension cables (I have done extension cables in the past with no apparent signal degradation)

Edit 3: Quick 3D ....something like this (allows for height/angle/depth) ... I'm not sure about 3rd member ...how rigid is the foot tray?????

 

[AccAkut]

Good picture can do all of that aside from the inverted pedals, though not sure if you can invert the Fanatec CSL Elite LC

in general I'd look up seating position on GT3 class cars, as those are designed for gentlemen drivers and not top athlets Regarding seats don't go for the absolut cheapest.. I did, and I do wonder how long that thing will actually hold its shape (seat is from "TurnOne" )

 

[jamescarruthers]

in general I'd look up seating position on GT3 class cars, as those are designed for gentlemen drivers and not top athlets Regarding seats don't go for the absolut cheapest.. I did, and I do wonder how long that thing will actually hold its shape (seat is from "TurnOne" )

I've been looking for GT3 seat position... and can't find much. Would like to find something though...

 

[ThugUK]

 

[jamescarruthers]

That's LMP1 — so more like an F1 car.

GT3 I presume is much more like a standard road car... as that's what they are.

This is a DTM car... closest thing I can find.

It's all a bit academic anyway — because there's nothing to say a racing driver should be comfortable.

 

[deandsfsdfewsad]

I was not really referring to "inverted pedals" just the prescribed relationship of posture, reach and line of sight.

Edit: However, I just looked at the CSL Elite LC and it does lend it self to inverted brake/clutch with regular throttle (much more so than V3). Because each pedal is separate with 4 mounting points, you could build your own custom base out 10 or 20 series 8020 Just another idea. More work for the CAD Model.
Edit 2: Quick mock up side view, you can extend you brake/clutch cables with extension cables (I have done extension cables in the past with no apparent signal degradation)

Edit 3: Quick 3D ....something like this (allows for height/angle/depth) ... I'm not sure about 3rd member ...how rigid is the foot tray?????

I did some research into inverting them and it seems like it's not advised as the CSL load cell placement is in a stupid location and when you brake with your foot in different places you get wildly varying read-outs from the sensor, this is apparently worse in an inverted position. Regarding the foot tray, it's pretty damn rigid, doubt you'd get flex with it

 

[deandsfsdfewsad]

in general I'd look up seating position on GT3 class cars, as those are designed for gentlemen drivers and not top athlets Regarding seats don't go for the absolut cheapest.. I did, and I do wonder how long that thing will actually hold its shape (seat is from "TurnOne" )

yeah I nearly went down this avenue but I'm going to try something out in person first before I get anything

 

[AccAkut]

yeah I nearly went down this avenue but I'm going to try something out in person first before I get anything

I did try going the cheapskate way...rig and wheel and PC I'm still nearing the 3k mark

 

[JimLee]

I did some research into inverting them and it seems like it's not advised as the CSL load cell placement is in a stupid location and when you brake with your foot in different places you get wildly varying read-outs from the sensor, this is apparently worse in an inverted position. Regarding the foot tray, it's pretty damn rigid, doubt you'd get flex with it

Yes, I do believe after looking at the method for inverting was the lack of proper support for the pedal assembly (too much end float). However, I still think the proposed full support (still bolted down to the Fanatec install locations I indicated), would not cause you any problems.

 

[CC]

I was not really referring to "inverted pedals" just the prescribed relationship of posture, reach and line of sight.

Edit: However, I just looked at the CSL Elite LC and it does lend it self to inverted brake/clutch with regular throttle (much more so than V3). Because each pedal is separate with 4 mounting points, you could build your own custom base out 10 or 20 series 8020 Just another idea. More work for the CAD Model.
Edit 2: Quick mock up side view, you can extend you brake/clutch cables with extension cables (I have done extension cables in the past with no apparent signal degradation)

Edit 3: Quick 3D ....something like this (allows for height/angle/depth) ... I'm not sure about 3rd member ...how rigid is the foot tray?????

Always confused about these inverted pedals it’s more of a road car thing but I bet most people drive say GT cars what’s the thoughts behind it ?

 

[JimLee]

My knowledge on this is somewhat limited (although I do attend races and have rode/driven a few classic car at Sears Point). What I have observed is:
1. That floor mounted (hinged) pedals seem to be the norm for almost all cars: Ford Model -T through historic F1/GT? and Modern F1/GT. (primarily from lack design space (F1's) and a carry over into GT (mid/rear engine), although most GT cars have sufficient space.
2. Inverted pedals seem to be primarily in "everyday road cars...which includes Ferraris, Jags, etc ...let's not forget NASCAR
3. Exotics seem to mix it up a bit depending on "interior space available" and front engine vs mid/rear engine
4. Even "drive by wire" seems to a mix depending on design space available, but primarily floor mount.

So, yes you could say sim racing "inverted pedals" apply primarily to Stocks Cars / Truck / Off-Road.

Any help here from other "knowlegable" people would be appreciated.

P.S. A PLUG for Sears Point (Sonoma Raceway), CA. They have at least two classic car races every year as fund raisers, where you can talk to the owners , see the cars up close, ride on the track in car and even sit in most cars with the owners permission.

 

[jamescarruthers]

Here in Europe pretty much every car is “inverted” - which includes the throttle also.

Typically because the master cylinders sit on the bulkhead above your feet.

Porsche, at least, have inverted clutch and brake but a floor mounted throttle. I believe that’s the same as most sports cars also.

Almost all formula cars have floor hinged throttles.

Inverted is mostly for packaging and physics, inverted pedals allow you to apply more force as there’s more space for a lever.

 

[JimLee]

Here in Europe pretty much every car is “inverted” - which includes the throttle also.

Typically because the master cylinders sit on the bulkhead above your feet.

Porsche, at least, have inverted clutch and brake but a floor mounted throttle. I believe that’s the same as most sports cars also.

Almost all formula cars have floor hinged throttles.

Inverted is mostly for packaging and physics, inverted pedals allow you to apply more force as there’s more space for a lever.

To be honest with I haven't had an American car in so long, I can't even remember what they had/have. Been driving Hondas, Acuras and Infinities - all Japanese, for so long. It started after I let go of my 1970 Camaro Z28 , quality/reliabilty of US cars was just terrible compared to Japanese/German Imports . My first two were 1) 1982 Honda Accord (wife) -1983 Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT Apex AE86 (mine-fun) 2) 1993 Mazda RX-7 Type R (mine-more fun 3) and then unto more plebian/sedate life style Honda Accords / Mazda 929 / Infinity Q45 / 2005 S2000 (keeper-less trouble) / 2014 Acura RLX. But, yes it is/was the same over here. Oh well rambling again

P.S. but I don't know if I need that much "rotation immersion factor" on the pedals in sim racing. One reason I installed the pedal extensions with D-pads, a little more neutral feeling for pedal rotation and besides I drive with "karting type" shoes. Look more rambling.

 

[jamescarruthers]

What pedals do you have @JimLee?

I put the D pads on my CS V3 — and moved them up one notch also to get some height.

I would probably still prefer the brake to be inverted because I think it's more natural to push that way.

 

[JimLee]

I installed the D-pads on brake and clutch only, along with the extensions on all three to get both the height/angle I desired. I installed the brake performance kit (Grn13 + Red13) and shortened the throw on the throttle to match.
Sidenote: I kept full throttle plate to allow me to "heel-toe" and still have space to "two-pedal" comfortably without too much leg contortion.... compromise