Not getting better

I've had my wheel since December now and been pretty much solidly playing since April and i'm not really getting any better at the game, mid-field in public servers and at the back in RD events.
Thing is as well, apart from the obvious mistakes I can't really tell what i'm doing wrong when nothing appears to be going wrong. If I post a lap around a few tracks would someone tell me if I am doing anything really badly?
 
  • Andrew Evans

lewis.... i watched you lap a couple round spa earlier on... i'm nothing like a fast guy (yet!)... but in my opinion the root of your probs is that yer over-driving....

i'd basically say you need to slow down and smooth out.... cause you seem to miss a lot of apexes... generally you go into corners too fast and then over-compensate at the next one and approach too slowly... in that situation you then apply too much power in the corner and understeer off...

what i'd do is start running some time attacks - not competitively on the boards, but against yourself.... use your own ghost to improve your lines and approaches to corners and you'll soon start to see where one thing works and another doesn't...

i'd try and stick with the same car for a bit - pick something more touring like and not anything animal like the f3000 - and just get a feel for it - gradually building up your speed...

hope this helps in some way or other....

(e)
 
Okido, i watched both replays, for both you guys my advice would be to learn the track and racing lines, braking points etc much more precisely, all the times are lost on not proper racing lines and not using the track possibilities on full width of the tarmac (or when it is off to the green no doubt there is a time loss of course) Generally precision driving is rewarded with fast laptimes.

Also both cars seemed to be a little too much oversteering to me, when the car gets sideways it means loss of time. Try to stiffen the front anti roll bar, and/or soften the rear to get rid of this effect.

I did not had a lap with WTCC around Spa so made one now to show what i mean with using the track fully and trying to drive precisely around, it is a 2:31.2, still it is not perfect but i think it shows the point i am trying to say. 2:30 is definetely possible with WTCC cars.

Cheers: Atti
 

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  • Spa-Francorchamps 2004_080803_0609_TestDay HOT LAP.Vcr
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Thanks Atti, i watched your replay and your right, i dont use all the track. I'v now got the oversteering problem over with and set a time at 2.34.551. Pretty happy with it but the setups need some more tuning. Especially on gears, should i make them longer to make more topspeed? I also put FF on which i think stops me from turning the wheel too fast. Result: Smoother driving i think :)
Now, my next problem. I was going to let you guys have a look at my best time, but i cant find the Hotlap... Is this because i made a better time in a F3000 car yesterday?
Thanks
 
No, replay should be still there from every session you make the best lap separately plus the full session also. Sometimes rarely it happens....

Well done m8, u see, practise makes the master. :)
Hmm okey, maybe its when the session is a long one, was on the server for almost 2 hrs. Just annoying it was going to happen now :p
Practice makes perfect indeed, but after running the track 50-100 laps without improvement, you get tired of it :p
You wouldnt mind checking a replay from Anderstorp some day if i can make a quick lap there to? Just to see where i can do things different because i find the track difficult...
Cheers!
 
I really dont think its any level of actual race driving talent that makes people quick on these games.

Yes you need a level of talent, but in essence all you are doing is playing a game. In other words you are applying experience and knowledge to a game platform and understanding what things are needed, it doesnt take bravery, technical knowledge or feel.

Talent is actually going out there with your own car and having a go and being quick, beating people, showing improvement and learning.

Being able to understand how a game program works, how the programmers want you to play it and what tweaks you need to do in a game to be quick are talents but on a whole differnet level to being able to actually ride a bike or race a car quicly for real.

It's the same as playing poker online or anything like that.

I know the Nordschliefe intimately from gaming, but would that mean I went out there in a car and tried to go quick, of course not, because every programmer has things to incorporate in a game to make it playable and easy to PLAY, and thats the point. They can map the Nord but they cant make it utterly real coz you cant imitate wind, gradient, weather, car trouble perfectly yet,. Maybe the F1 teams can but theya re using supercomputers to do it, backed up by their own data logging.

If you watch Pau for instance, it is far narrower in real life than in RACE, you cant vault the kerbs as much etc. In the game, a quick lap there is about as destructive to your car as any lap anywhere. Try that for real and you would wreck the car. In a 6 lap race you can lap like that for 6 laps and only suffer minor degredation.

For me the aliens are special people! I dont know how they do it! Top Gamers of all types of games are a special breed. It comes form practice, playing the game for hour upon hour upon hour. Messing with settings til you get the feel you want!

I find that most of time I will be top six in qually but often podium in race coz these aliens can lap quick once but are often inconsistent as they are at the limits of game physics. Not all are like this, but some.

When I look at times set in Vwtcc or the top times they astound me, I have NO idea how you do a low 1.33 at Oscher for instance, I think I must be missing something!!

or a 1.33 at Brands, any of these laps are simply impossible for me to quantify!
 
I really dont think its any level of actual race driving talent that makes people quick on these games.

Yes you need a level of talent, but in essence all you are doing is playing a game. In other words you are applying experience and knowledge to a game platform and understanding what things are needed, it doesnt take bravery, technical knowledge or feel.

Talent is actually going out there with your own car and having a go and being quick, beating people, showing improvement and learning.

Being able to understand how a game program works, how the programmers want you to play it and what tweaks you need to do in a game to be quick are talents but on a whole differnet level to being able to actually ride a bike or race a car quicly for real.

It's the same as playing poker online or anything like that.

I know the Nordschliefe intimately from gaming, but would that mean I went out there in a car and tried to go quick, of course not, because every programmer has things to incorporate in a game to make it playable and easy to PLAY, and thats the point. They can map the Nord but they cant make it utterly real coz you cant imitate wind, gradient, weather, car trouble perfectly yet,. Maybe the F1 teams can but theya re using supercomputers to do it, backed up by their own data logging.

If you watch Pau for instance, it is far narrower in real life than in RACE, you cant vault the kerbs as much etc. In the game, a quick lap there is about as destructive to your car as any lap anywhere. Try that for real and you would wreck the car. In a 6 lap race you can lap like that for 6 laps and only suffer minor degredation.

For me the aliens are special people! I dont know how they do it! Top Gamers of all types of games are a special breed. It comes form practice, playing the game for hour upon hour upon hour. Messing with settings til you get the feel you want!

I find that most of time I will be top six in qually but often podium in race coz these aliens can lap quick once but are often inconsistent as they are at the limits of game physics. Not all are like this, but some.

When I look at times set in Vwtcc or the top times they astound me, I have NO idea how you do a low 1.33 at Oscher for instance, I think I must be missing something!!

or a 1.33 at Brands, any of these laps are simply impossible for me to quantify!

Hi buddy,

Of course, partly i agree with you, racing in a sim is not the same as racing a real race car.

Or better to say i can not compare it, since i never in my life drove a real race car unfortunately. :) The most powerful car i drove was a Ford Mondeo ST220 with a 3L V8 bi-turbo engine, but thats all.

However this is a sim-racing forum, so all what we do here is discussing and organizing our favourite hobby, racing in front of a computer. :) I would like to believe that with the latest sims we are getting closer and closer to reality, but as i wrote above i am not the right person to judge it, however several real life racer confirmed, that what Race 07 offers, is anything as close to reality as it ever got so far in games, and car handling etc feels like real. So i believe them. :)

I know an american series side-car bike rider lady, who practises with Race 07 Radicals to prepare for the races, as this car handling is fitting perfectly to the reality of her bike.

We had racing with us in the Mini Cooper League Ben Spouse, a real life Mini driver, who also stated, that it was unbeleivable close to reality what he found in Race 07 with the Mini-s.

Gábor Wéber hungarian racer and sim-racer too, competes in the Seat Euro Cup, event next to WTCC, and he prepares for the races with Race 07 too.

Also we have some real life racers in this forum as well, maybe it is better to hear from them for their opinion.

About the pracitising, yes, practise makes the master, but in which part of life it isnt? :) However i would love to spend hours and hours of only playing, unfortunately as so many others i also cant do it as much as i would want. :)

Cheers: Atti
 
Keep practicing and don't get discouraged. There has been some great advice and insights given on this thread. A driving sim is a completely different animal that what is usually found on a console and it can take a long time to master. I probably never will...:) How good you get though will probably depend on how hard you work at it and your native abilities. I could practice basketball 24x7, but will never be Michael Jordan. I can still have a great time, continue to improve, and hang out with good friends though.

For me, someone who's relatively new to sim racing, the setup is generally of lesser importance when trying to improve my times. Learning the track's line and braking points are the first things I try get down. Then being smooth and using every inch of the track is next. I've watched some of Atti's laps and you would think you are on a "Sunday drive with grandma". No rush, no drama, everything completely smooth, and every inch of the track being used. I'm convinced this is where "most of the fast" is. I think it was Jackie Stewart that said he was his fastest when it was most boring. When I'm convinced that I can't take a corner any faster and something about the car is holding me back, e.g. understeer/oversteer, then I start making changes to the setup. Laps, laps, and more laps...:)

I did some amateur racing years ago and find the sims(GTR2, Race 07, rFactor) to be a pretty good proxy for driving a real race car actually. Obviously there are differences in the physics. You can't quite feel the car pivot around its axis in the same way you can in real life, but the developers do a pretty amazing job given their medium. I raced in a spec series where the cars were evenly matched and the same principals applied there as they do here in the sim racing. Getting the line right, using all the track, being smooth, and getting the max from the car is what produced the best results. Now if I could just do that on a regular basis... :)
 
Indeed every person is good at something special.
Iv just driven some laps around Anderstorp again with a bit more FF than i usually drive with. Im getting smoother i think, but when i try to drive faster (read push the throttle) i end up spinning (BMW on curbs) or going into the grass (Chevy and Seat). Iv managed to push some of my brakinglines a bit further and getting more speed out of T1, but i seem to loose it in the long sweeping turns. Having a big problem keeping the speed up in those :/
I dont know about this "Setup doesnt matter in the beginning", because with a better fitting setup i can drive without to much understeer or oversteer, keeping the car on the track etc. Or is it just me beeing lazy not working to find a way to drive with the default setup? Depending on what car i choose, i can go with the default setup, but usually not...
Thanks for your input guys!
 
Don't worry about being at the back too much there are some great scraps here with a lot of decent racers. the key thing is to notice the small improvements.

i know i am never gonna get to group 1... heck... group 4 was only reached due to the amount of interest shown at Brands Hatch, but I enjoy it here and it's great to race with a lot of good clean drivers looking to do the same. you pick up tips off guys and i find spending time watching people in practice helpful even if its just to confirm the line you took at corner x is the best line - then its a case of finding where that line is to take the same speed thru the corner as they do.

remember we all have our own driving styles as the racers do in real life, some (like myself) like to scrub off speed before the corner and accelarate thru it. Some like to carry a lot of speed into corners (like Hamilton) and are aggressive on the tyres the key.

i believe a key thing to remember is set your own targets. i've gone to races and seen a 8 second improvement on laptimes. i've also noticed in my short time here that instead of being 5-7seconds of the front i can get 3-5 seconds off the front... that is progress, not gonna win me anything but keeps me happy.

look forward to seeing you online racing soon! :thumb:
 
I think a lot of it is down to machine spec and wheels aswell

I have no idea really how to set up my wheel!!

There might be a few things that all the geeks do that I have no clue about in reality.

I just pretty much have a small deadzone to allow for the jumping of the connections, and that is pretty much it!

You are right though, somehow the quick guys dont make any errors and can look so smooth

I find my wheel really hard to be smooth with, so maybe there is something to learn there!!

My real annoyance is that I am probly top 100 leaderboard on most tracks, top 50 on some, but not quite at the level to race in leagues.

I could race but whats the point if you are getting battered!! Race to win, thats the name of the game!
 
Don't worry about being at the back too much there are some great scraps here with a lot of decent racers. the key thing is to notice the small improvements.

i know i am never gonna get to group 1... heck... group 4 was only reached due to the amount of interest shown at Brands Hatch, but I enjoy it here and it's great to race with a lot of good clean drivers looking to do the same. you pick up tips off guys and i find spending time watching people in practice helpful even if its just to confirm the line you took at corner x is the best line - then its a case of finding where that line is to take the same speed thru the corner as they do.

remember we all have our own driving styles as the racers do in real life, some (like myself) like to scrub off speed before the corner and accelarate thru it. Some like to carry a lot of speed into corners (like Hamilton) and are aggressive on the tyres the key.

i believe a key thing to remember is set your own targets. i've gone to races and seen a 8 second improvement on laptimes. i've also noticed in my short time here that instead of being 5-7seconds of the front i can get 3-5 seconds off the front... that is progress, not gonna win me anything but keeps me happy.

look forward to seeing you online racing soon! :thumb:
Right now im just looking for speed to gain better places in the Swedish league. Will definatly have a look at the RD league ;)
And yes, maybe im looking for the impossible: Running laps that are 3-5 seconds faster than i usually do in just 10 laps :p It's taken me 7 months to be where i am now, and in those 7 months i have developed quite much :) I probably wont participate in any Events this months, becuase on the 15th im moving into my first real appartment, so alot of packing and buying is needed :rolleyes:
Thanks all, really appriciate it!
 
i too had the same problem ,got to a certain lap time and couldnt get any better ,i downloaded Attilla's hot lap from brands for the mini to see where i was losing time ,worked on it .got a little faster but not much.i then downloaded the replay of the oceania mini event to see how he was able to go through these corners so quick .get the idea watch and learn,keep working at it and dont give up.
 
i too had the same problem ,got to a certain lap time and couldnt get any better ,i downloaded Attilla's hot lap from brands for the mini to see where i was losing time ,worked on it .got a little faster but not much.i then downloaded the replay of the oceania mini event to see how he was able to go through these corners so quick .get the idea watch and learn,keep working at it and dont give up.
I dont know if im not looking enough, but i cant seem to find alot of replays from hotlaps.

Was driving the Alfa today at Anderstorp, made a PB in both Practice and TA, but my replays still arent saved. Dont know why since iv put it to record everything...
Well, no i wont be racing until hopefully next week, everything is packed and is soon going to my new/first apartment :)
Edit: Removed some text since i wrote it late last night (beeing tired), and it didnt end up the way it was supposed to do:p
 

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