My thoughts about the forum and the community

[BhZ]

Lately i've been particularly active on this forum and i took part to many discussions. One in particular got my attention. It was about the fact that fast drivers don't help rookies during practice. I think it's true, but at the same time i think many rookies don't even ask. I raced a lot recently on RD and i think i remember just one question in something like 8 races: "what wings are you guys running?". That was the only question that someone asked during practice. This got me thinking about the community and the forum and i noticed that the majority of the posts here on RD are about peripheral issues, graphical issues, news, random stuff. Now, in a simracing forum i'd expect more questions about cars, tracks, driving tecnique...Asking question in a 30 minutes practice just before the race won't make you a better driver for the simple reason that if you are not already a great driver, 30 minutes are barely enough to stay on track and possibly find good braking points. What will make you a better driver is to ask question on the forum, get an answer to it and apply in an offline session what you just learned until it becomes natural.
Everyone is free to do whatever he wants and race every night with a different car in a different track, but my advice is to take at least half of the days you'd race to just choose a car and a track and practice. Push the car, be curious about where is the limit of it. That is the only way to actually improve. Racing every day doesn't give you the time to get confidence with a car or a track, so you will improve, but at a much slower speed and you won't have time to work on the setup, because it's useless to work on the setup if you still have to find the limit of the car.
So my request is as follows: Ask about anything related to a car or track here on the forum, even if it's a stupid question, there are people here ready to help.
I also have a suggestion for the RD staff: In order to improve the quality of racing on RD, it would be cool in my opinion to have nights where instead of racing, you guys set up a server with a car and a track (possibly a combo that will be used in the next RD event) where people can sign up (like in a normal race) and practice for a couple of hours. So you have some sort of "practice event" where people willing to improve can learn more and where hopefully some of the fast guys (which usually practice a lot) will come as well and help.
Just to be sure, since english is not my first language, i want to specify that this is just my opinion and advice to try to improve the quality of driving. Let me know what are your thoughts about it and if you have other ideas that could make this forum a better place.

 

[Jempy]

By experience .... it's not mostly easy to find someone ... having time, having the specific qualities ... with patience sometimes and moreover ... didactic and finally really wishing to do it.

I'm no expert in setups, rather a mid- backmarker .... but manages to adapt a car to my own driving style with reading, experiencing and applying ... but finally in place of 5 seconds compared to the best laptimes, .... 3 seconds are still remaining afterwards .... the car is not quicker but finally better adapted to the driving style and so feeling more at ease. In fact ... most of the time some little changes not far from the default setup.

But .... anyway ... the good tips, well explained with easy words ... might be good for anyone wishing to learn the How to .... for example.... with which points to start a setup ! ... some settings are surely more important at the start .... maybe some of us are beginning a setup from a wrong starting point...

Go quicker ... for the last seconds to catch ... relies on the driving errors we're mostly not aware of.
... or aware but not able to loose bad taken habits.

 

[BhZ]

AFAIK there is nothing from the staff discouraging this from happening, camaraderie and sharing advice is always encouraged by staff.

The problem is not the staff, but the community itself. This post demonstrated how most of the people prefer to not put too much effort in this game. My personal impression is that. Many people expect to become faster in a month with almost no practice. If people don't want to practice, our advices have no value at all for them and so we better invest in people who explicitly ask for our help.
@BrianUK When i work on a setup i don't have a clear idea of what i need. I mean, obviously i know when i need low downforce and long gears, but it's more about "try and see" for the other settings. I know what a setting does on a theoretical level, but i'm not completely sure it's going to work in that particular occasion.

 

[Kek700]

BhZ quote :-
When i work on a setup i don't have a clear idea of what i need. I mean, obviously i know when i need low downforce and long gears, but it's more about "try and see" for the other settings. I know what a setting does on a theoretical level, but i'm not completely sure it's going to work in that particular occasion

"Well put", i am sure that the people who think that there is 5 seconds in a magic setup will not take any notice.
( I do not mean to sound so cutting, it just struck me as a pretty good summary)

 

[Slalom823]

Sometimes it's fun to share a setup with someone who is convinced they are only four seconds off the pace because of the setup.

 

[Mr Deap]

"Well put", i am sure that the people who think that there is 5 seconds in a magic setup will not take any notice.
( I do not mean to sound so cutting, it just struck me as a pretty good summary)

Magic setup exist for open wheeler, other specific cars, some GT3 car, Spa & Monza, very specific air temp which make default broken, PSI isn't adjusted, etc.

After that you get that skill thing where most only want to cut 2 sec from their current time & don't give a damn for that whole 5sec.

Sadly sim racing game is about setup your car to what close to real life. So you can focus on both, but setup can be learned without really being at the game. It's not like most player who play AC are under 25.

 

[Kek700]

I spent many hours once on a set up in gt3, only to find that when I eventually went back to standard setup I was almost as quick.
And then to find the guy that beat me by 3 second a lap in GT3 beat me by 3 seconds a lap in a fixed setup race. (Perhaps I just embittered )

 

[Derrell Biffle]

The truth is that when you are pushing for quicker times you find yourself simply over driving the car. I think a lot of people waste their time in trying to setup a car instead of developing thier racecraft, and adapting to the car/track. You need to be real consistent in a combo before you will even notice if a setup change is going on the right direction.

 

[Slalom823]

You need to be real consistent in a combo before you will even notice if a setup change is going on the right direction.

Great point!

 

[BhZ]

I think we should start talking about ideas/solutions at this point. We all said what we expect and hope for, now we should see what we can do in that regard. If RD is able to provide what we need, great, otherwise we can organize on our own.

 

[Kek700]

Most of what has been said above I agree
with, and I hope we are in the process of removing some of the myths. My main
problem is That I am not in the enviable situation of experiencing the difference of being slow and then fast and thus having access to the reasons that made me quick. I have always been "Ok" and still am.
People think that the quick people are hiding
the real reason, and that is " I think" why they get
so fixed on the "setup" being the reason.
I am sure this is not the case, but as I said before I am not in a position to know.
In all the years I have been in motorsport there has always been a complete distrust of your fellow competitor at all levels, but only when they are quicker.
I spent 10years racing cycles, and no one ever
questioned why fast guys are fast.
Once you get, as BhZ has said, a clear picture,
of ideas and solutions then that is a good starting point.
If you will forgive me I will outline what I think
Is needed to be a quick driver.

Skill.
Consistency.
Knowledge.
Practice.

Unfortunately I can not achieve but two of
the above, but I am quite happy with we're I am and would just like some increased knowledge and perhaps a bit more pace at times.
But some people want more and get frustrated
and end up leaving RD and consequently sim racing and completely miss out on the fun factor.

Have I sent you all to sleep.

 

[Lars Rystedt]

Skill.
Consistency.
Knowledge.
Practice.

Unfortunately I can not achieve but two of
the above, but I am quite happy with we're I am and would just like some increased knowledge and perhaps a bit more pace at times.
But some people want more and get frustrated
and end up leaving RD and consequently sim racing and completely miss out on the fun factor.

Have I sent you all to sleep.

I agree with what you wrote above and would like to add Talent. That helps a lot, especially at the start I think. I myself can only take one of these to heart, the rest are more or less a mystery to me.
And Matteo, this is in no way pointing at you in any way so please do not see it as such.

I bought AC for the Rookie races only. No other reason whats so ever. Unfortunately the grid was always fille with 98% of really fast to incredibly fast drivers, leaving 2% to the rest.. the rookies, slow ones.
As rookies do have a tendency to be careful to sign up afraid, nervous or whatever reason to sign up late.
They need more time to decide, that is just how we work,
So the grid is filled with almost only regulars that already knew how and what to do and when, the rookies which I believe was the main target for the event was sitting out as reserves.
After a while there was enough to fill not only one but two Rookie race servers, but instead of divide the drivers so it would be a more even grid it stayed as it was. Meaning 98% of really fast regulars and 2% rookies in Race1 and not very much different in Race2.
That was a mistake I believe, when the 2% slow drivers is spending more time nervously looking into the mirror for lapping cars instead of the road ahead there is something wrong.

I did adress this in a post and for most part the answer was (no pointing finger here, just my feeling) "sit buy and watch the fast guys, thats how you learn". I dare say that is wrong approach to learn anything because if you don't have the understanding of what is happening, this is pure magic.
Another reason that came up was that the faster guys would help you to improve but, I may remember wrong, as far as I can remember not one of the faster guys stepped up saying "I will be there tonight and would gladly help". Instead the it was the "watch and learn" approach again, not answering a questions one could have. So, well, then there will be less and less questions.

Further more, Rookie races was just a marketing ploy even admitted by one of the staff who joyfully stated that "all we had to do was add rookie and people joined in droves"... yay!

In rookie races I've participated in I have been called out as "your so slow!" (no news there, I already knew that), another wondered why it was so big difference in lap time until he saw and said very load and clearly "Oh, it's a rookie".. That was in a rookie race so DUH! But it shows what not a few is really expecting. It has not been uncommoon with name calling towards newbies, rookies, less skilled drivers.

So now I notice there again is decline of sign ups in the now called friendly races and it is the same regulars as always. This can to some extent be due to summer, summer is the main reasons to any game and community to loose it active members.
The fun in participating is going down the drain slowly for some and faster for others, and if someone is not feeling that he or she is loosing out of anything not joining anything during summer. Going back to race AI is so boring that even practice online alone is more fun, atleast there might be a real person showing up giving you a benchmark of how your own laptime stands in comparison.

And so sorry, I meant to keep it short but I failed.

 

[BhZ]

not one of the faster guys stepped up saying "I will be there tonight and would gladly help"

We probably have never been in the same race together, but most of the time i sign up for a GT3 race, i usually write "i'm in the server, practicing. If anyone wants to join...".
Anyway, i think rookie have to ask, we can't be the ones coming forward before you. If you ask, a lot of people will come and help.
Now that everything is clear, we just have to do what we said and slowly change what is the normality here at RD. This will probably give us a more active community and a quicker field, probably with closer racing as well.

 

[Lars Rystedt]

We probably have never been in the same race together, but most of the time i sign up for a GT3 race, i usually write "i'm in the server, practicing. If anyone wants to join...".
Anyway, i think rookie have to ask, we can't be the ones coming forward before you. If you ask, a lot of people will come and help.
Now that everything is clear, we just have to do what we said and slowly change what is the normality here at RD. This will probably give us a more active community and a quicker field, probably with closer racing as well.

It kind of sucks we haven't and I haven't seen it then, but to get more to ask more, answers need to be provided when people actually do ask. It will just be another black hole of nothingness where newbies feel there is no reason to ask because noone will take the time, regulars not bothering because no questions comes or not worthy of answering. This is a bad circle

 

[RasmusP]

I think IN THE EVENTS, the language barrier is far higher than some think it is.
When I was new I wanted to ask some questions but I just couldn't find the words as fast as needed and when I did find them, I didn't understand the answer

So what I did was just staying a bit in TeamSpeak after the races and mainly listening, thinking about what I wanted to ask and then just do it. It's quieter then and I got some nice talks with the others.

I luckily found some of them having a similar pace as me and I just wrote them a PM and then we practiced together.

I did some practice today with @BhZ for my first AMS race and OH BOY. I just drove a few laps behind him, he waited for me when I got lost and I got 4 seconds faster! FOUR DAMN SECONDS

Of course I will just see his backlights in the race but it's gonna be fun.

So we had two nice threads going on here in the last week and I think we just need to continue, let the rookies and newbies ask HERE for help (better in the event thread) and I'm sure everyone will find a practice buddy!

As BhZ already mentioned a few times:
He has absolutely no problem to help everyone who appreciates it but he won't do it in the races. For concentration issues etc.

And if someone has ideas: just give the staffs some feedback. We can't see in your heads, even though we are trying to do it

 

[Kek700]

Lar's I have read your article three times and
unfortunately I see a lot of truth in what
you have said, there is certainly room for
some sort of structure to address you and other people with the same concerns, how to apply this I am not sure; as I have spent 50 years racing it is difficult for me to fully appreciate your situation. maybe someone else can help address
this. Or at least create a more positive attitude to
entry into rookie racing in general.

 

[Lars Rystedt]

I think IN THE EVENTS, the language barrier is far higher than some think it is.
When I was new I wanted to ask some questions but I just couldn't find the words as fast as needed and when I did find them, I didn't understand the answer

So what I did was just staying a bit in TeamSpeak after the races and mainly listening, thinking about what I wanted to ask and then just do it. It's quieter then and I got some nice talks with the others.

I luckily found some of them having a similar pace as me and I just wrote them a PM and then we practiced together.

I did some practice today with @BhZ for my first AMS race and OH BOY. I just drove a few laps behind him, he waited for me when I got lost and I got 4 seconds faster! FOUR DAMN SECONDS

Of course I will just see his backlights in the race but it's gonna be fun.

So we had two nice threads going on here in the last week and I think we just need to continue, let the rookies and newbies ask HERE for help (better in the event thread) and I'm sure everyone will find a practice buddy!

As BhZ already mentioned a few times:
He has absolutely no problem to help everyone who appreciates it but he won't do it in the races. For concentration issues etc.

And if someone has ideas: just give the staffs some feedback. We can't see in your heads, even though we are trying to do it

Language are an issue I absolutely agree, not knowing how to explain the problem in a reasonable way to be at least understandable.
One thing that is quite demoralising is when drivers are finishing, congratulating each other for a good race and then leaving. And I still have half a lap to go, so when I finally do finish half the grid has already left. I wish I had made that last up but unfortunately I didn't.
This is on me but it do make me fel unworthy to wait for, those leaving want to go to bed or spend some time with their families, or some other reason I don't know. But why not wait, I showed up in time, stayed in race even though I am hopelessly last without any possibility to gain a position for you?
So, already tired after the race and seeing others leave that quick, yeah well... it doesn't make wonders for me and wanting me to stay asking about things. But as said, thats on me only.

 

[Lars Rystedt]

Lar's I have read your article three times and
unfortunately I see a lot of truth in what
you have said, there is certainly room for
some sort of structure to address you and other people with the same concerns, how to apply this I am not sure; as I have spent 50 years racing it is difficult for me to fully appreciate your situation. maybe someone else can help address
this. Or at least create a more positive attitude to
entry into rookie racing in general.

I have no idea either, I come from a totally different world. Competitive in it self but different approaches so don't think it is straight over applicable solutions.

 

[Slalom823]

Most of what has been said above I agree
with, and I hope we are in the process of removing some of the myths. My main
problem is That I am not in the enviable situation of experiencing the difference of being slow and then fast and thus having access to the reasons that made me quick. I have always been "Ok" and still am.
People think that the quick people are hiding
the real reason, and that is " I think" why they get
so fixed on the "setup" being the reason.
I am sure this is not the case, but as I said before I am not in a position to know.
In all the years I have been in motorsport there has always been a complete distrust of your fellow competitor at all levels, but only when they are quicker.
I spent 10years racing cycles, and no one ever
questioned why fast guys are fast.
Once you get, as BhZ has said, a clear picture,
of ideas and solutions then that is a good starting point.
If you will forgive me I will outline what I think
Is needed to be a quick driver.

Skill.
Consistency.
Knowledge.
Practice.

Unfortunately I can not achieve but two of
the above, but I am quite happy with we're I am and would just like some increased knowledge and perhaps a bit more pace at times.
But some people want more and get frustrated
and end up leaving RD and consequently sim racing and completely miss out on the fun factor.

Have I sent you all to sleep.

Well said. I am not really one of the naturally fast guys, but I have read many books, articles, etc over the last decade and I believe I am quite knowledgeable. So while I may not be as quick as some with only 20-50 laps, I can keep getting quicker when perhaps some are starting to plateau, and sometimes I can be pretty quick.

I think most of the pretty fast guys are fairly knowledgeable. There are a couple that may not be, and just have the experience. Either way my best recommendation for someone wanting to improve is to try to learn, enjoy learning and improving, and be patient. It doesn't happen overnight, but with time and a little effort we can all learn and improve.

Also, if you ever want to do some one on driving on a server let me know and I would be happy to do my best to help. So feel free to pm me if that is of interest. Also I plan on putting together a list of my favorite learning resources this week. It will have both free and paid for content. I will put a link in this thread once it is up.

 

[Slalom823]

It kind of sucks we haven't and I haven't seen it then, but to get more to ask more, answers need to be provided when people actually do ask. It will just be another black hole of nothingness where newbies feel there is no reason to ask because noone will take the time, regulars not bothering because no questions comes or not worthy of answering. This is a bad circle

If you ever want to go online and do a one on one session just let me know. I would just ask that you have teamspeak and a microphone.

Watching faster drivers definitely does help, but only to a certain degree. You can see lines, potential speeds, etc, but you can't really see how the brakes are used to brake so late or how they are released and why. It often times is a great way for someone to shave off some time, but ideally not the only instruction.

Just send me a pm if you would like to drive together.

 

[Lars Rystedt]

If you ever want to go online and do a one on one session just let me know. I would just ask that you have teamspeak and a microphone.

Watching faster drivers definitely does help, but only to a certain degree. You can see lines, potential speeds, etc, but you can't really see how the brakes are used to brake so late or how they are released and why. It often times is a great way for someone to shave off some time, but ideally not the only instruction.

Just send me a pm if you would like to drive together.

Thank you, I just might some day