Lewis Hamilton - One of the Greats?

[Turk]

Hamilton is a brilliant qualifier, but he is totally dependent on his team to give him a winning car and manage the race strategy.

I think that would be the same for every other driver on the grid.

 

[billymitchell]

I think that would be the same for every other driver on the grid.

Correct.

If Vettel, Alonso, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Raikkonen, etc were in that Mercedes... wouldn't they have also won the driver's championship? I guess it comes down to the teammate a driver has to battle against in the same Championship car. Would Rosberg have won more drivers titles in that Mercedes than those aforementioned drivers? I don't think so.

I agree with Paul's observations. I think a lot of the F1 drivers are talented, but I personally don't think Hamilton stands out as the best of the bunch.

 

[Praggia]

Nope nope and nope
and the cry baby is also somewhat of a prick

 

[Turk]

Correct.

If Vettel, Alonso, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Raikkonen, etc were in that Mercedes... wouldn't they have also won the driver's championship? I guess it comes down to the teammate a driver has to battle against in the same Championship car. Would Rosberg have won more drivers titles in that Mercedes than those aforementioned drivers? I don't think so.

Hmmm.. I don't know about that, I think it's extremely close between most F1 drivers, but I think this year Hamilton excelled, he took race wins from Vettel and Ferrari when he shouldn't have, very few unforced errors (the last error was on spent tyres so I'll let those kind of errors slide).

As I said, all the drivers are great, but Hamilton just seems to have that little extra 0.5% that means he keeps winning. I think he's championship win this year was simply down to him not making mistakes. Vettel/Ferrari lost that championship though errors and Hamilton made the most of that by not making mistakes. So putting Vettel into the Mercedes may not end up with Vettel winning the championship. It probably would, but if he made those same mistakes in the Mercedes he would still end up losing.

 

[Antony Snook]

I believe Lewis is a good driver but remember his tittles are in a era when points go to top 10 finishers. Unlike the 90's when it was the 1st 6. Nigel Mansell would of had a 2nd tittle with today's rules. But its Apples and Oranges, both fruit but different taste. Big problem with F1 you can't compare era's because its a different rule book.

 

[Antony Snook]

The constant whining about tires is not what a true driver would do. Michael Schumacher or Senna would asses the problem and work around it. Making it look like there was no problem at all.

 

[Antony Snook]

There are drivers in F1 with talent but never had the marketing to get to a good team. A case of lack of money and sponsorship.
There could be a driver male or female capable of being a champion but never will due to lack of money and corporate backing to get them to F1. Going from go carts to f3 and into F1 must be hard financially for parts travel ect.
That said Lance Stroll has lots of money so he will be a Canadian world champion soon.

 

[Terry Rock]

The constant whining about tires is not what a true driver would do. Michael Schumacher or Senna would asses the problem and work around it. Making it look like there was no problem at all.

Michael Schumacher and Senna didn't come up in an F1 era where tire were designed to degrade artificially at manufacturing.
It was quite a different time and I was here watching it all from 1971.
There also wasn't a radio broadcast to the public, so folks don't know what was said.

 

[James Cook]

Five world championships.
Twelve consecutive seasons in F1.
Winning F1 races and competing at the front of the grid every year.
Never had to drive a bad car.
Made smart career choices.

Yes, he's one of the greats. To argue otherwise is just a bit silly.

 

[Deleted member 503495]

Another point of contention. Average number of races in a Formula 1 season per decade:

• 1950s: 8.4
• 1960s: 10
• 1970s: 14.4
• 1980s: 15.6
• 1990s: 16.2
• 2000s: 17.4
• 2010s: 19.7

Currently the drivers have the equivalent to two seasons vs the golden 60s and about to push 50% more than the 70s. Over 4 (26%) additional races per season than the 80s (3 seasons in this era are roughly 4 seasons back then), and 22% more races than the 1990s.

With the most dominant car of the grid for numerous years in a row - see Vettel from 2010-2013 - and an extremely competitive (2007, 2008, 2010) or top 2/3 car (2009, 2011, 2013), so basically at least a top 2 car for 10 years, top car for 7 of those, at a time when the tradition one or just two cars far ahead of the rest take to the grid, the numbers don't mean much. It is how the pole positions, wins, and results come that count.

The 1988 McLaren was the most dominant car of all time in Formula 1, followed by the Ferrari F2002 (and Mercedes laying claim to that select group in recent years). Had Prost not retired in Monza and Senna not been hit by Schlesser due to no gap between himself and the Ferraris, McLaren would have taken 16/16 victories to capitalize on their 15/16 pole position results. We can still somewhat compare these different dominant cars and drivers, and in such occasion Lewis could make it maybe 10th (or top 10) of all time. Though I doubt he'd ever push a Lotus 49 or 98T to the limits Clark and Senna did regardless of how much seat time he could have.

 

[gamer19]

Currently the drivers have the equivalent to two seasons vs the golden 60s and about to push 50% more than the 70s. Over 4 (26%) additional races per season than the 80s (3 seasons in this era are roughly 4 seasons back then), and 22% more races than the 1990s..

True that.
But they still got exact the same amount of titles available.

 

[danraz3r]

Offtopic, do you drive a Radical?

in my dreams and in ams :C

 

[Jozsusz]

He is the most childlike of the Greats - that's for sure.

Oh yeah, like Senna, when he was crying that the lapped racer reovertook him?
Seriously... get your head out of the sand.

 

[Antony Snook]

Michael Schumacher and Senna didn't come up in an F1 era where tire were designed to degrade artificially at manufacturing.
It was quite a different time and I was here watching it all from 1971.
There also wasn't a radio broadcast to the public, so folks don't know what was said.

Yes the Mandatory pit-stop has made Pirrelli put together a tire that could never last a whole race.

 

[Antony Snook]

When Lewis was at McLaren he had the Mercedes Benz engine. When he went to AMG-Mercedes the new factory team he must have took key personel with him. You don't loose just the driver its his whole entourage. So i think the AMG-Mercedes was formed with the best people from McLaren. Who basically follow Lewis.

 

[paracletus]

2008 Silverstone.
Most on this forum will be well aware that LH is one of the best rain drivers on a GP track.

 

[Vadim77]

Don't know,for me Kimi Raikkonen STAR

 

[Allan Ramsbottom]

Probably but he never proved this in a bad car, he always had car from the top

A lot of people thought he was crazy switching from Mclaren....Hmmm what did Schumacher do for Mercedes.............

 

[Fil140]

Ok, I'm sorry if I've missed anybody else making this point.
F1 is not a solo sport. It is a team sport with seperate awards for participants and teams, so it stands to reason that their has to be one best team, so why do so many people keep on banging this ****ing drum about an equal playing field with identical equipment? F1 is about a FORMULA! the idea is to develop the best car, not always the fastest, and to entice the best driver, not always the fastest over a single lap, to drive for your team.

Boooom! Phil smashed it, hell yeah!! Comment of the dat!?
Catch me out iracing, how bout dat!?

 

[eSEA One]

The constant whining about tires is not what a true driver would do. Michael Schumacher or Senna would asses the problem and work around it. Making it look like there was no problem at all.

"Whining" a small annoyance! Cheating Not Great! particularly if you have the skills that are above the rest.