PC1 Let's give SMS a little credit here

[Damage Inc]

pCARS is a good sim, with flaws admittedly (which are not hidden and are discussed all over the internet), but is more or less 100% feature complete unlike other recent releases such as AC, R3 and I believe RF2 was not feature complete when released (although stand to be corrected). Xbone flaws are a mystery to all WMD members as we had nothing to do with that version at all. I believe SMS should get some credit for being a small team and releasing a complex game across 3 platforms (unlike the others mentioned) and as I say more or less feature complete.

It's not to everyone's personal tastes but tell me what is?

 

[SnappyDEe]

I want more bugs. I wish they could introduce the "Snappy wins every MP race" bug. Hey, maybe as a DLC.

 

[Kimmo Kokkonen]

PC is the most enjoyable sim ever, it gives you everything you need or dream from sim.

 

[Radu Oros]

I did this thread, "they" have nothing to do with it. The purpose of the thread was to address that SMS worked bloody hard on pCARS, brought many unique things to the sim world, and produced a solid sim that a lot of people really enjoy. Didn't do everything planned and some of what did get in isn't 100% perfect, but hey what does? Have you got Elite Dangerous and seen what was planned vs what was implemented in that game? Games are complex projects, beyond what most people could do. Kunos have my respect, Sector 3 have my respect, SMS have my respect (obviously)...I may not have the other sims but ISI, Reiza and iRacing have my respect. Despite what I say with this sites links to Reiza I'm still interested in GSCE...although I'm looking at getting more R3 stuff first. Sadly it seems SMS get no respect from many here. I just can't understand it.

What have they done different that they didn't do with fia-gtr2, ferrari game, shift1 and shift2. What are those unique things they brought to the sim world? Pcars shares a lot of the visuals, content, physics, sounds, apps, from the previous games done by SMS. Fosho they share a lot of physics, graphic, sound code from the previous games. And sharing physics code with their previous games is a bad thing. Honestly there is more driving enjoyment in gran turismo than in pcars, because pcars is an average simulation of sim racing games, while GT has a clear objective what it wants to be, and is exactly that and it does it well. And too bad they didn't follow much of gtr2, I guess that knowledge was part of the other party when they split, and are now called sector3. What was left was knowledge in graphics, some sound effects, and despicable marketing.

Is this the game WMD members gathered money for? They should have stayed with EA, would have been the same thing.

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

Is this the game WMD members gathered money for? They should have stayed with EA, would have been the same thing.

If only that were true! Then we would have had this game with a Porsche 918. And I don't care what anyone else says, but Porsche 918 + Eau Rouge + Rain == *nondescript happy noise*

 

[TimeHunt]

Hmmm ok...... anyway back to driving the sim for me.

 

[Andy_J]

I want more bugs. I wish they could introduce the "Snappy wins every MP race" bug. Hey, maybe as a DLC.

How about the "Snappy wins just one race bug"?

 

[Andy_J]

Lets stop with this "poor old SMS, No one is giving them any respect".We've respected them enough to part with our cash and buy their product! Some of us across more than 1 platform. We also respect them enough to use their product in organised events on an almost daily basis!

This ^^^^^

 

[Damage Inc]

No you said it's more or less 100% feature complete which by itself is already a contradiction. Something is either 100% complete or not.

Arguing semantics now? Everyone knew what I meant, most of what was planned to be in on release made it but not everything which is why I said more or less, other sims I mentioned released early with major aspects of what they plan missing. Unfortunately seems to be a common malaise within the gaming world that games are never released perfect, so once again why single out pCARS for a level of critique worse than others?

You can verify that as well and it doesn't matter if people are employed as modelers or artists or do the administration at the office or clean the toilets if they are employed they are part of the team. But feel free to present some figures that state otherwise as this doesn't look like a small team to me.

View attachment 94197

Ok so the fact that you don't care if someone is a cleaner on the payroll says a lot about your opinion. The core Full time team is relatively small for a team that has developed a multiplatform game.

If we post opinions we get threatened to be sued for libel however you seem to have no problem presenting "your facts" to the public so please do me and all our readers a favor and, what are our "links" with Reiza other than we are giving them a free forum at our website. If those are "links" we have links with Assetto Corsa, Sector3, iRacing, SMS, ISI, Codemasters, Milestone and all other major sim developers as well. So let's hear it. Are we on anybodies payroll for example? Do we get games for free to give away or sell in our shop or anything else? Back up your claim(s).

Did I say it was "in depth links" of monetary gains or somesuch kickbacks, no I did not. It's a link you have with Reiza that what I stated, where is that opinion. you even state it yourself so it is a FACT you have a link to Reiza like I stated.

Um if I go to Reiza website and click on support it sends me here. Is it the same with the others?
A link no matter how small IS a link, so once again FACT you have a link with Reiza that you do not have with other Devs. Seeing as you all think I'm personally doing the nefarious work of the Evil Emperor Bell and all because I bought the 45 euro pCARS toolpack!! LOL

People have shown their respect for the game by buying it, some even own multiple copies on multiple platforms, so wiping this under the no respect carpet by saying many you are again on thin ice accusing "many" for no apparent reason. Instead of attacking many you should be a little bit more grateful that many of these haters bought the game securing your investment.

The "respect" or rather lack of it is from posts on this forum, buying the game doesn't matter. I've bought loads of things that I didn't like....but then I didn't go and bitch in forums and post disrespectful stuff, or as a mod or an admin allow my site to be a mouth piece for these disrespectful posts.

I have no problem with Project CARS (apart from the bugs, which I am fully entitled to complain about as 2x paying customer), and you can scan through all of my posts prior to release and you might see comments about some of the WMD investors, their marketing BS and about your Head of Studio sure. I have lost all respect for him back in 2012 after putting our community and it's management through so much stress after threatening to sue us for the opinion of some (again: not many) of our users.

correct you are fully entitled to complain, no-one has ever said otherwise. Marketing BS, is it any worse then every other marketing BS? Every game/product has a marketing team that makes wild promises, every game product has fanboys who back up these wild promises....once again why single out SMS/pCARS?

I get you have a beef with Ian, I have no idea if he has a beef with you as (contrary to popular belief) WMD members do not get indoctrinated into some sort of army, or wear some sort of head gear enabling Ian to control us.

Maybe if you'd controlled and moderated the posts better of those people then none of the legal stuff would have kicked off, I don't know the ins and outs only those around at the time will know, and all I know is it takes 2 to tango so RD is as culpable in the legal fiasco as Ian is.

Please enlighten everybody what our agenda exactly is as I am more than curious to hear another accusation from you.

Indeed, unfounded accusations are not very nice are they?

FYI: We have been accused to be pro-Assetto Corsa, anti-Assetto Corsa, pro-Codemasters, anti-Codemasters, pro-iRacing, anti-iRacing, pro-Simbin, anti-Simbin, ISI haters, ISI fanboys, now obvious links with Reiza, so tell us something new please.

Hehe NEVER pro SMS though eh? Yes like I say you DO have a link to Reiza, I go to their website click on support and it sends me here. That's an obvious link in anyones book.

We have no paid ties to developers. Can you state the same @Damage Inc?

I never ever mentioned paid links. and YES I have no paid links to SMS, I am not under their employ, I PAID THEM 45 euro for a toolpack. You go on about me accusing you of this and that yet I get the impression you think ALL WMD members are employed by SMS, Ian's personal army LOL. Ridiculous!

 

[Damage Inc]

Lets stop with this "poor old SMS, No one is giving them any respect".We've respected them enough to part with our cash and buy their product! Some of us across more than 1 platform. We also respect them enough to use their product in organised events on an almost daily basis!

We have paid them our money, just fix the (well documented) issues which im sure they will eventually and we can all happily continue to play Project CARS.

"poor old SMS"....that wasn't actually the tone of my post, you implied emotion into it. Incorrect.

Respect SMS by criticising the issues in a calm and dignified manner, something that many on various forums fail to do.

 

[robbynat0r]

Tbh I love this game as it is easy to learn but very hard to master.

It might have some bugs but let's be honest - each software, hardware has bugs when it's released so we should stop arguing about things which are not working. If SMS is going to be open-minded and listens to the customers they will fix the bugs to satisfy the pCars community.

Today's culture of developing products is that the products keep evolving on customer side. It costs lots of money and time for developers to make User Acceptance Tests, so why not placing the software directly to the customer? It's the most efficient "User Acceptance Test" - ok, tbh when releasing a final product we do not expect to do some testing as we want a perfect product. These times have passed by long time ago.

Let's be pacient and wait for the next patches SMS is going to release!

 

[Damage Inc]

What have they done different that they didn't do with fia-gtr2, ferrari game, shift1 and shift2. What are those unique things they brought to the sim world? Pcars shares a lot of the visuals, content, physics, sounds, apps, from the previous games done by SMS. Fosho they share a lot of physics, graphic, sound code from the previous games. And sharing physics code with their previous games is a bad thing. Honestly there is more driving enjoyment in gran turismo than in pcars, because pcars is an average simulation of sim racing games, while GT has a clear objective what it wants to be, and is exactly that and it does it well. And too bad they didn't follow much of gtr2, I guess that knowledge was part of the other party when they split, and are now called sector3. What was left was knowledge in graphics, some sound effects, and despicable marketing.

Is this the game WMD members gathered money for? They should have stayed with EA, would have been the same thing.

LOL That's your argument? Sigh

Well GOSH I would have never thought that a real place and a real car would look very similar from one game to another, I am truly shocked and amazed......<sarcasm>

Um what did you expect looks wise, and if you are backing up your claims of physics being the same from a youtube video then that undermines any form of rationality to your argument right there. Anyone with the tiniest modicum of sense knows you can't judge a sims physics from a video, go get the dunces cap on mate! LOL

It does indeed share things with previous games done by the same team, that's obvious. You can see a dev teams quirks and style in EVERY game.

Someone with more indepth knowledge of the game will know exactly how much was shared but I can state 100% that the SETA tyre model is brand new and not shared.

And you compare it to GT?? LOL GT was excellent (5+6 are awful games). Unfocussed awful career mode that is IDENTICAL to EVERY GT game.....race early crap car, win money, buy parts/new car, race again.....repeat until brain dead. No matter how bad pCARS ai is at times it is VASTLY superior to the robotic ai in GT5. And all this start dead last, no qualifying, no practise. No control over laps. No, sorry don't even go there.

PD and Kaz are perilously close to losing my respect, if GT7 is just GT5/6 with better sound and graphics then the respect will probably go, the GT series needs a SERIOUS injection of new ideas.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I will state up front that I havent driven PCars so have no opinion on it.
However I have to fight the good fight for the english language and the correct use use of terms in percentages.
My normal hobby horse is the use of 110%, IE "giving 110%. Its not possible. 100% is 100 out of a potential 100. So when a sports commentator says 110% or a candidate on the apprentice talks of giving 110% it makes me cringe. The only acceptable exception is when used as an expression of afterburning thrust when dumping raw fuel post the combustion chamber will give a very innefficient (doubles fuel use) 125% of normal military or dry thrust. So in that case you CAN have 110%.

The rest of the time its out of 100. So 100% is the maximum possible. You have eoither given it or you haven't.

IMO a better phrase than "more or less 100%" would be "the overwhelming majority of ".
To say more however would be pedantic of me.

Edit: and it seems that I am wrong about what 100% means.
But then again there is always that half a percent who will disagree with the bleeding obvious.

 

[Radu Oros]

Did I say it was "in depth links" of monetary gains or somesuch kickbacks, no I did not. It's a link you have with Reiza that what I stated, where is that opinion. you even state it yourself so it is a FACT you have a link to Reiza like I stated.

Um if I go to Reiza website and click on support it sends me here. Is it the same with the others?
A link no matter how small IS a link, so once again FACT you have a link with Reiza that you do not have with other Devs. Seeing as you all think I'm personally doing the nefarious work of the Evil Emperor Bell and all because I bought the 45 euro pCARS toolpack!! LOL

GSCE doesn't have a dedicated forum. So Reiza devs use Steam and RD to support users with technical problems, to announce new things, to post guides on how to improve controller, visuals, etc. And in general, a place for the gsce community to discuss about the game they play.

 

[SnappyDEe]

I will state up front that I havent driven PCars so have no opinion on it.
However I have to fight the good fight for the english language and the correct use use of terms in percentages.
My normal hobby horse is the use of 110%, IE "giving 110%. Its not possible. 100% is 100 out of a potential 100. So when a sports commentator says 110% or a candidate on the apprentice talks of giving 110% it makes me cringe. The only acceptable exception is when used as an expression of afterburning thrust when dumping raw fuel post the combustion chamber will give a very innefficient (doubles fuel use) 125% of normal military or dry thrust. So in that case you CAN have 110%.

The rest of the time its out of 100. So 100% is the maximum possible. You have eoither given it or you haven't.

IMO a better phrase than "more or less 100%" would be "the overwhelming majority of ".
To say more however would be pedantic of me.

Edit: and it seems that I am wrong about what 100% means.
But then again there is always that half a percent who will disagree with the bleeding obvious.

David, what are you waiting for? You going to try pCars, or what? With all this polarization, acrimony and bickering how can you resist seeing for yourself what all the arguing is about?

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I get the impression you think ALL WMD members are employed by SMS, Ian's personal army LOL. Ridiculous!

You can have that impression as your opinion, I respect that and you are fully entitled to also post it here.

As you are avoiding answering my questions: what's my or RD's agenda and why does it stink?

 

[Radu Oros]

It does indeed share things with previous games done by the same team, that's obvious. You can see a dev teams quirks and style in EVERY game.

Then don't say things like these:

The purpose of the thread was to address that SMS worked bloody hard on pCARS, brought many unique things to the sim world, and produced a solid sim that a lot of people really enjoy.

Because in general there's nothing unique in pcars they haven't done with their previous games.

 

[Frank]

@Damage Inc
I am not sure why you are defending SMS or pCars in such a way. No one is hating on it, they are just giving their opinions and feedback. I can assure you, many of the posters in this thread can be found daily in our pCars Club Race section, and enjoy every second of it (Unless some bugs make us unable to race).

The reason people have critisism on a developer and a game usually means they have a passion for the game and the genre in general. We just want these things fixed, so we can enjoy this game the way it was meant to be.

So let's try to burry the hachet and let's get along. There is no need for personal attacks.

 

[Andy Ainsworth]

How can I pat them on the back for a job well done when 50% of the time, I click start to start a race and it crashes? FFB on an lot of cars is still nothing to write home about, horrendous frame rate drops, too many online issues to mention.
They assured us that the game was 99.9% complete when they last moved the release date back, this was an out and out lie.
I just want to purchase a game that the dev's claim to be finished and for it to work properly, surely that's not too much to ask.
PC has incredible potential but as yet, falls far far short of a complete game.

 

[Chris Harris]

"poor old SMS"....that wasn't actually the tone of my post, you implied emotion into it. Incorrect.

Respect SMS by criticising the issues in a calm and dignified manner, something that many on various forums fail to do.

And that's the problem with the written word on internet forums!. The context and delivery is open to interpretation by the reader.

You started a thread giving your opinion on the lack of 'respect' people are showing SMS. There was enough emotion there to compel you to start this thread. Reading between the lines that's how I interpreted it. And for the record i am calm and feel my dignity is still intact!

Anyway, back to playing pCars for me. Hope to see you on track someday for a good race.

 

[Damage Inc]

I will state up front that I havent driven PCars so have no opinion on it.
However I have to fight the good fight for the english language and the correct use use of terms in percentages.
My normal hobby horse is the use of 110%, IE "giving 110%. Its not possible. 100% is 100 out of a potential 100. So when a sports commentator says 110% or a candidate on the apprentice talks of giving 110% it makes me cringe. The only acceptable exception is when used as an expression of afterburning thrust when dumping raw fuel post the combustion chamber will give a very innefficient (doubles fuel use) 125% of normal military or dry thrust. So in that case you CAN have 110%.

The rest of the time its out of 100. So 100% is the maximum possible. You have eoither given it or you haven't.

IMO a better phrase than "more or less 100%" would be "the overwhelming majority of ".
To say more however would be pedantic of me.

Edit: and it seems that I am wrong about what 100% means.
But then again there is always that half a percent who will disagree with the bleeding obvious.

Yeah I agree my phrasing in my post wasn't the best, but who's is. The jist of what I meant was surely clear?

Although to be pedantic myself on the % issue. Surely if someone tries twice as hard that's 200%?