Japanese GP Debrief: Rosberg Waltzes as Hamilton Falters

[GAIAjohan]

Ricciardo has outscored Verstappen since they've been teammates. He's also beaten Max in the race and qualifying more than Max has beaten him.

Also, as I'm not Dutch, I can make better judgement using statistics instead of blindly supporting your countryman with no evidence

I think your hate against Verstappen is just completely annoying. Since 3 out of 4 stewards + Hamilton + Wolff + Lauda don't agree with you in the situation last Sunday.. only steward Gary Connelly agrees, and he's in trouble now since he asked Paddy Lowe to issue a protest, because the other stewards did not agree with him. Then Paddy Lowe issued the protest,but Hamilton and Wolff didnt agree.

Also if Ricciardo would not have scored better on average this year he should have seriously reconsidered his position:
1. More Experience in general
2. The car was made for him
3. More Experience with that car

Apparently you prefer parades over racing.. Oh, I'm also baffled that Hamilton could not pass on the straight with the help of:
1. The Mercedes engine
2. Drs (button to pass)
3. The Mercedes car in general

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

I think your hate against Verstappen is just completely annoying

I will hate on him if I think he's in the wrong. I was defending him in Malaysia when people were suggesting Verstappen was to blame for the first corner collision.

Since 3 out of 4 stewards + Hamilton + Wolff + Lauda don't agree with you in the situation last Sunday.. only steward Gary Connelly agrees, and he's in trouble now since he asked Paddy Lowe to issue a protest, because the other stewards did not agree with him. Then Paddy Lowe issued the protest,but Hamilton and Wolff didnt agree.

"It is believed that they wanted to clarify the situation informally with the Dutchman, as moving under braking is something the FIA does not wish to become a common accepted practice"

Sounds to me like the FIA don't like Max's driving very much

Also if Ricciardo would not have scored better on average this year he should have seriously reconsidered his position:
1. More Experience in general
2. The car was made for him
3. More Experience with that car

Only a few races more, it doesn't take that many races to get up to speed with the car as well. Ocon is now beating Pascal despite them factors as well.

Apparently you prefer parades over racing

I hate when people say this because your logic is complete trash. 'Oh, you must prefer parades because Max is making it impossible and dangerous to overtake' Max's driving it discouraging overtaking and racing. Simple as. I love good battles when the racing is clean. Also if Max want's to defend, he can cover the inside before the braking zone and before people jute out to make a move.

Oh, I'm also baffled that Hamilton could not pass on the straight with the help of:
1. The Mercedes engine
2. Drs (button to pass)
3. The Mercedes car in general

I'm not completely baffled. Before chopping Hamilton off in the braking zone, Max was defending smartly by deploying his ERS on the main straight to prevent being overtaken (see, praise, I will give credit when people do well). Also the Mercedes can be complete trash in dirty air

 

[P*Funk]

First one was fine (it should be acceptable and drivers on the look out for it; thats racing - Max was right up the inside on a favorable corner)... but i hear ya.

Kimi had no choices in that situation. He overtook Verstappen then Verstappen overcooked the corner deliberately to push him off knowing he could. That's just really ugly driving. If there were no run off he would have ended Kimi's race or being taken out by Kimi choosing not to drive off a cliff. The passing driver has an obligation to make the pass safely and cleanly - Verstappen has no respect for this concept and its not even like the first pass was the final lap when you forgive that kind of extreme optimism. That early on its really taking the piss and his subsequent moves indicate his lack of fair play or judgment.

Thanks to modern paved run off driving like a total jerk is now safe and tolerable. The fascinating reality of super safety culture - it permits super unsafe driving practices.

 

[GAIAjohan]

Here ,I would read this German source regarding the **** Connelly was doing:

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1-protest-posse-exklusiv-10881067.html?r549308896=71377525

You also have Google translate, so you van read it: 3out of 4 stewards did not want to punish Verstappen. Mercedes Boss Toto Wolff even liked what Verstappen did(!), He said that in front of the camera..

It's just that Gary Connelly it seems.. and if it's true what's written there, imo Gary Connelly should lose his job instantly

 

[EpilepticToast]

Ha! this hate on Verstappen again "driving like a prick", look at how successful those other "pricks" became from their supposedly dangerous driving style. You can see he is a future F1 champion already IMO, got the gritty attitude out on track... it's like most people ignored the fact he completely phased out Hamilton in a red bull for 2nd place at the end on Sunday through consistent defensive driving, again at a track where the Mercedes car has the clear advantage in every sector at the end of the day. The spa incident was bad, but a one off inexperienced mistake that fools are clinging to so they can try to drag his name down. pathetic really, just move on...

 

[Appie Kuipers]

This stupid discussion on MAX is going nowhare!!! In the coming years he will prove it!
Thanks to him F1 is FUN again.

 

[Stefan Woudenberg]

Yep, mostly Max haters here.

 

[racelover]

This stupid discussion on MAX is going nowhare!!! In the coming years he will prove it!
Thanks to him F1 is FUN again.

Carlos Sainz is to become the better one

 

[GAIAjohan]

Carlos Sainz is to become the better one

Ah, thats why Sainz after nearly 2 seasons doesnt have as many points as Verstappen in the 1st season..

I think Verstappen will outperform Ricciardo next year..

As for Ocon and Wehrlein, I don't think Manor had made the car for a specific driver, and I don't think Wehrlein has an enormous talent, looking at his past results. Ocon really has talent.

I would rate the Red Bull drivers as the best combination in current F1..

 

[P*Funk]

Being harshly critical of what Max does in some circumstances is not Max hating. He deserves praise sometimes and criticism other times. There's no doubt he has amazing talent, which is why its a shame he drives like this sometimes. Other drivers get criticised when they drive dangerously or without any respect. The difference is that Max has somehow been given a pass on too many occasions, as F1 is want to do, and too many F1 fans seem to think that driving without respect is gritty.

The blanket statement that he's entertaining and fun isn't a refutation of the reasoning behind the criticisms, its a way for people to justify cheering for something ugly and without needing to justify why its good or proper. Driving without respect may be entertaining, but its not good racing. Most series other than F1 seem to understand this.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Yep, mostly Max haters here.

Really? Right now I'm feeling like a army of Verstappen fanboys!

You can see he is a future F1 champion already IMO

Well, that is up for debate. There are so many ultra talented future champions. Vandoorne, Ricciardo, Ocon, Wehrlein and Norris are names that spring to mind. It's going to be an extremely tough era with many amazing drivers battling for the title

Thanks to him F1 is FUN again.

His overtaking is certainly entertaining, definitely enjoyable to watch, no denying that.

look at how successful those other "pricks" became from their supposedly dangerous driving style

Maldonado was extremely unsuccessful. (I know you meant Michael Schumacher but I need to prove a point to show how "pricks" aren't always successful.

You also have Google translate, so you van read it: 3out of 4 stewards did not want to punish Verstappen. Mercedes Boss Toto Wolff even liked what Verstappen did(!), He said that in front of the camera..

Toto Wolff has said Max's driving is dangerous before, so yeah.. View it how you wish.

It's just that Gary Connelly it seems.. and if it's true what's written there, imo Gary Connelly should lose his job instantly

So there is one steward with common sense, hooray!!!!

Ah, thats why Sainz after 2 seasons doesnt have as many points as Verstappen in the 1st season..

And that is down to a number of fun reasons!

Reason 1- The 2015 Ferrari engine is total crap
Reason 2- Sainz had seven mechanical failures during races last season, while Max had a mere 2! You know what, I think there was sabotage at Toro Rosso last season!!!!!!

I'm kidding But you get my point, Sainz was incredibly unlucky, and he lost so many points due to a large amount of grid penalties and in race DNF's

Sainz is an extremely talented driver, and you can't compare them last season as Sainz didn't stand a chance with the luck he had

 

[GAIAjohan]

Ah.. thats why Verstappen in races where they both finished outperformed Sainz more times than Sainz outperformed MV.
Thats why Verstappen had taken more points this season until Spain.

No really, also bad luck on the engine can be seen as talent.. for some reason especially Sato had a tendency of pushing Hondas too far.. Maybe Sainz is harsher on the car as well

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Ah.. thats why Verstappen in races where they both finished outperformed Sainz more times than Sainz outperformed MV.
Thats why Verstappen had taken more points this season until Spain.

No really, also bad luck on the engine can be seen as talent.. for some reason especially Sato had a tendency of pushing Hondas too far.. Maybe Sainz is harsher on the car as well

Sainz beat Max 5 times in races they both finished. Max beat Sainz five times in race they both finished (In 2015)
So they were even last season in terms of races

Yes Max outscored Sainz this season but maybe this years Toro Rosso was built more towards Max?

Also maybe Sainz retired lots because the Renault was an unreliable piece of crap?

Also another cracking statistic was that Sainz out qualified Verstappen 10-9 last season

They're pretty even, yeah Max is probably slightly better but Sainz is more than capable of beating him

 

[[DNA] Rico Nosberg]

I'm sorry, but last time I checked, Ricciardo has completely outperformed Max this season

Check again,
Remember Max got in a new car in the 5th race of 22
HEAD TO HEAD: 2016

WINS
RIC = 1
VES = 1

SECONDS
RIC = 4
VES = 4

THIRDS
RIC = 1
VES = 1

Talking smart isnt gonna save you from the facts.
Sorry its me again !!!

 

[LacSlyer]

Ha! this hate on Verstappen again "driving like a prick", look at how successful those other "pricks" became from their supposedly dangerous driving style. You can see he is a future F1 champion already IMO, got the gritty attitude out on track... it's like most people ignored the fact he completely phased out Hamilton in a red bull for 2nd place at the end on Sunday through consistent defensive driving, again at a track where the Mercedes car has the clear advantage in every sector at the end of the day. The spa incident was bad, but a one off inexperienced mistake that fools are clinging to so they can try to drag his name down. pathetic really, just move on...

Assuming you're referring to Hamilton and Vettel, while they had the growing pains Verstappen has had, though theirs' not being quite as notorious in my opinion, they also matured into veteran drivers that respect everyone else on the track to the point of not putting others in danger regardless of how much they want to win.

He's been dangerous, and what's worse has been allowed to get away with it, with zero repercussions. We've seen this time and time again where Verstappen has willingly done risky moves and gotten away with it, meanwhile even the veteran drivers are getting penalized for similar moves. This isn't something new, as the new drivers feel like they have a lot to prove, so you're right in that the criticism of Max isn't entirely justified since a lot of younger drivers go through this. More importantly the FIA should be more criticized for allowing him to get away with it when in the past, and even the present, other drivers have been penalized for much less dangerous moves.

Something needs to change, and the FIA needs to get its act together and start treating all drivers the same rather than favor ones that are obvious benefits to the sport.

 

[Ian Fleming]

Kimi had no choices in that situation. He overtook Verstappen then Verstappen overcooked the corner deliberately to push him off knowing he could. That's just really ugly driving. If there were no run off he would have ended Kimi's race or being taken out by Kimi choosing not to drive off a cliff. The passing driver has an obligation to make the pass safely and cleanly - Verstappen has no respect for this concept and its not even like the first pass was the final lap when you forgive that kind of extreme optimism. That early on its really taking the piss and his subsequent moves indicate his lack of fair play or judgment.

Thanks to modern paved run off driving like a total jerk is now safe and tolerable. The fascinating reality of super safety culture - it permits super unsafe driving practices.

Racing fuel and tyres is all good...

Blocking on a straight and 'bump and run' are examples of ugly driving...

Amen for rally cross.

Kimi had no choices in that situation.

yes he did... but its not a easy choice... it hurts even...

 

[Mark Aalberts]

I stay out of this but damn some people should really stop watching F1, 20 years of Max in F1 is not good for you're hearth.

Btw talking about blocks, what do we think about the most horrendous block of the year performed by Nico on Lewis in Barcelona? that in fact actually ended up in tears. And for me tears of joy of course.

 

[Ian Fleming]

I got a good idea... lets have a button and if your close enough you can push it and get a boost if you in the zone...

Stoopid .

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Check again,
Remember Max got in a new car in the 5th race of 22
HEAD TO HEAD: 2016

WINS
RIC = 1
VES = 1

SECONDS
RIC = 4
VES = 4

THIRDS
RIC = 1
VES = 1

Talking smart isnt gonna save you from the facts.
Sorry its me again !!!

But Ricciardo has outscored, outraced, and outqualified Max. Therefore he's outperformed Max

Also, you have to remember that's Red Bull ****ing up Monaco and (unkowningly) putting him on the worse strategy in Spain when he was in control (costing him a podium)

So really the head to head should be this

Wins- DR 3-0 MV
2nds- DR 3-5 MV
3rds- DR 1-1 MV

 

[GAIAjohan]

It seems that after the introduction of the Drs button some people have lost what Wheel to Wheel racing was about.
It has now been reinvented in f1,and some older farts are having a difficult Time since they were driving parades with a Push button to pass on the straights