Is Assetto Corsa's Penalty System too harsh?

[Terry Rock]

I love AC but the draconian penalty system is just 'killing' it for me.
I'm mostly hot-lapping with it now due to that system...
Recently on starting what was supposed to be a great race....(twenty four guys at Spain running the L125)).
I got in late and did not have a chance to qualify so I started twenty-third...not a problem since I like starting at the back and trying to work my way through the field.
I got a great start...up to tenth by turn one, then had to pull left and slow for a first corner pile-up at which point I got 'clobbered' from behind and pushed off track.
Penalty....I must now slow to almost a stop before the lap is over.
I watch as cars 'fly' by and disappear.
After what seems like an eternity, I can again race.
It's futile.
I pull over...hit escape and exit the game because I know based on the time I sat almost stationary, there is absolutely no way to catch up.
It's a race killer and needs addressing..

 

[Terry Rock]

I suggested this once before.
I'll pose it again....
How about penalties tied to braking inputs...or at least attempts at braking prior to going off track.
The software is capable of monitoring analog and digital inputs.
There should be no restrictions to hinder developers from using that data to determine if a driver deliberately powered through to cut a corner.
It could work like this:
Corner approach with no attempt at braking or turning prior to exceeding track limits= 4 sec penalty.
Corner approach...brake and steering input before exceeding track limits= no penalty first time...warning second time...drive through third time.

Since the objective is to remove people gaining an unfair distance advantage, the attempt at braking will accomplish that by slowing them down.
If they 'power' through a corner, the 4 second penalty will negate any gains.
Either way, the situation would be covered without 'killing' outright racing.
As to track rejoin.... any angle more than 90 degrees to track direction= immediate disqualification (that one will get rid of those guys who like to drive reverse and ram people off track).

 

[Brandon Wright]

Corner approach with no braking input before exceeding track limits= 4 sec penalty.
Corner approach...brake input before exceeding track limits= no penalty.

So, as long as I tap the brakes before I deliberately short-cut through the grass I won't get penalized? Sweet!!
(I think there's a flaw in your plan)

 

[Bazooka_Joe]

As to track rejoin.... any angle more than 90 degrees to track direction= immediate disqualification (that one will get rid of those guys who like to drive reverse and ram people off track).

In other words - spin your car, keep it on track (no run off areas on Monaco for example) = immediate disqualification?

I agree the penalties are too strict, especially if you've done nothing wrong, but what you've proposed is even harsher. Plus as @Brandon Wright pointed out - it contains a slight flaw.

Something based on speed/car/corner would be good IMHO: cut the track, but if your section time (not track section but corner section plus 100m either ways from apex) is less than average/your clear lap best = no penalty as no advantage given. Do that multiple times in the same place - get a small time penalty (not that hideous slow down bonkers). Keep doing that - get further time penalties. That might work, but sounds fairly complicated to implement.

 

[Terry Rock]

In other words - spin your car, keep it on track (no run off areas on Monaco for example) = immediate disqualification?

I agree the penalties are too strict, especially if you've done nothing wrong, but what you've proposed is even harsher. Plus as @Brandon Wright pointed out - it contains a slight flaw.

Something based on speed/car/corner would be good IMHO: cut the track, but if your section time (not track section but corner section plus 100m either ways from apex) is less than average/your clear lap best = no penalty as no advantage given. Do that multiple times in the same place - get a small time penalty (not that hideous slow down bonkers). Keep doing that - get further time penalties. That might work, but sounds fairly complicated to implement.

That's why this poll is here...to gain suggestions.
As it stands now, it's even more flawed.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Of course it can be better than it is, but I'd guess it's not an easy thing to do, and they all seem to have their hands pretty full at the moment. The only way to have an ideal system is to be able to prove intent, and that's pretty much impossible. The whole "having to slow this lap" system is kinda screwy, IMO a better system would be just to limit power to the car for a few seconds and ghost the offending car so others don't crash into it, but of course the hardcore elitists would get their panties twisted about ghosting cars in a sim.

 

[Alex Townsend]

Couldn't they just define track limits and add time penalties at the end of the race affecting overall position?
Or you get 3 warnings for exceeding track limits and then you have to perform a drive through before the end of the race or get disqualified?
Plus maybe make the outside of the track limits like driving through thick mud, reduces speed so much that going off is enough to deter people from doing it?

 

[Bazooka_Joe]

IMO a better system would be just to limit power to the car for a few seconds and ghost the offending car so others don't crash into it, but of course the hardcore elitists would get their panties twisted about ghosting cars in a sim.

Agree there's plenty to improve, but please no ghosts
(I'm nowhere near hardcore FYI, more of a Sunday racer)

 

[Terry Rock]

So, as long as I tap the brakes before I deliberately short-cut through the grass I won't get penalized? Sweet!!
(I think there's a flaw in your plan)

Offer something that will outright improve the tendency of guys to simply leave the racing for penalties...that's what we are looking for.

 

[Radu Oros]

If you get a penalty in the first corner at Barcelona when you cross from the left side, then slow down to 35kph to serve the penalty. It won't put you far back in the race, even more when there are a lot of cars going slower than usual in the first corners, because of pile ups.
Maybe next time try to record live (penalties aren't visible during replay) and do the same thing. Then we can see of how fair or how bad the penalty system was in that situation.

 

[Tberg]

Agree there's plenty to improve, but please no ghosts
(I'm nowhere near hardcore FYI, more of a Sunday racer)

If you´re already racing a public mayhem server, why not use ghost? Hypothetically speaking.
I understand wanting to have realistic racing and features, but the problem is the drivers first and foremost.
I do agree that getting a penalty due to a real raceincident, that is pain. If anything, I think it´ll suit AC, or at least give the option, to use warnings instead of slowdown. But again, this will not help either on a public server with little to no administration. I would like to see another option for penalties, but I can´t see a better/easier way for regular public servers. If the idea is to stop cutters, you might as well release tracks with invisible walls at every cut opportunity, which again probably would upset someone.

Regarding penalties, you can easily take them while coasting after a long straight building up speed, unless it´s one of those mean 35sec penalties

So, +1 for warnings leading to the already implemented stop-n-go.

Best

 

[Brandon Wright]

Offer something that will outright improve the tendency of guys to simply leave the racing for penalties...that's what we are looking for.

Only the devs can offer that and unfortunately I don't think they'll be getting around to it any time soon. IMO if they changed the "slow down to a certain speed" to "lift off the throttle for X seconds" that would be less crippling but serve the same purpose and give the driver time to serve the penalty when he's not in danger of slowing other drivers.

 

[Bokonon]

Warning for exceeding track limits, three warnings=drive through penalty. To avoid people gaming the system by using up 2 penalties to gain time advantage then anyone who beats their fastest lap on a lap where they receive a penalty gets a drivethrough, quali lap would be used to enforce that rule on lap 1, please please @kunos can this be done?

 

[Bazooka_Joe]

If you´re already racing a public mayhem server, why not use ghost? Hypothetically speaking.
I understand wanting to have realistic racing and features, but the problem is the drivers first and foremost.
I do agree that getting a penalty due to a real raceincident, that is pain. If anything, I think it´ll suit AC, or at least give the option, to use warnings instead of slowdown.

Ghost cars are an instant killer of immersion. Great part of the racing is the risk management and dealing with unusual situations on the road, such as opponents facing the wrong way on the corner. Yes, it affects other drivers, but it's part of racing.

I've provided a suggestion above in this thread, or as you or @Bokonon suggested warnings for exceeding track limits should be much easier to implement. Or forcing iRacing style driver Safety Rankings to weed out the baddies.

Or you can join RD's club races and forget about the need for penalties whatsoever Very clean, proper fair and friendly racing here.

 

[Tberg]

Ghost cars are an instant killer of immersion. Great part of the racing is the risk management and dealing with unusual situations on the road, such as opponents facing the wrong way on the corner. Yes, it affects other drivers, but it's part of racing.

I've provided a suggestion above in this thread, or as you or @Bokonon suggested warnings for exceeding track limits should be much easier to implement. Or forcing iRacing style driver Safety Rankings to weed out the baddies.

Or you can join RD's club races and forget about the need for penalties whatsoever Very clean, proper fair and friendly racing here.

Yeah, we agree on that. My point was just that if the 'harsh' penalties are there to fire-and-forget the public servers as they are now, we might as well have a ghost option as anything else. Not that I don´t agree that it is an immersion killer.
So basically, towards OP, I think it is waste of time to work any further on the time penalty system as it is, maybe finetune it, but else let it go. The effort should be, as we agree on also, put on implementing the option to have warnings, either in tandem with the time penalty, or by itself. I think we already know, that an iRacing-like system closer than 3rd party SRS is not going to happen. That´ll only happen if Kunos made the decision that they could do better than iRacing, and why should they? Not a a question to you per se.

Let´s hope that warnings could be something we´d see as part of a mp-update someday.

 

[Alex Townsend]

I race on the minorating servers. AB don't usually have any idiots on them as everyone protecting their rating so they can race on them

 

[Bokonon]

I race on the minorating servers. AB don't usually have any idiots on them as everyone protecting their rating so they can race on them

True, minorating is a godsend, but many minorated servers still have the penalties on, which is a shame. I had real hope when the drivethrough penalties were implemented that we had seen the last of the silly and frustrating slow down penalty.

 

[Brandon Wright]

True, minorating is a godsend, but many minorated servers still have the penalties on, which is a shame. I had real hope when the drivethrough penalties were implemented that we had seen the last of the silly and frustrating slow down penalty.

Unless I'm mistaken, the drive-through penalty doesn't really do anything does it? A friend and I tested it when it first came out with the false starts, it would put a message on the screen saying I had three laps to serve the penalty but after three laps nothing happened, I finished the test race without serving the penalty and it did not change my position in the finishing results. I figure it would either warp me back to the pits or show me at the bottom of the finishing results and it did neither.

 

[Terry Rock]

Slowing to 21mph for any period while everyone zooms past and disappears, is always going to be a race killer.

 

[Alex Townsend]

Slowing to 21mph for any period while everyone zooms past and disappears, is always going to be a race killer.

Literally just happened. Admittedly I took rouge a bit wonky but there were 3 of us having a great battle up till then