Help a Noob Day.

Nick Jones · Mar 21, 2009

Hi All,

I'm a complete noob at this sim racing malarkey! Im not ashamed to admit it. I've been racing offline for about 6 weeks and tried one public race and got rammed off the track before the first bend! I've scoured the forums for tips and advice and found some good stuff, for example the RaceDepartment setup guide by R. van Rijn(I wouldn't of figured any of this out on my own). To be honest though I still find most of this stuff, especially online racing really overwhelming.

I race offline competing against the AI in WTCC 2007 championships, gradually increasing the user level and AI. Im driving at pro level (cant quite handle the rwd bmw's at pro level yet), driving the Seat Leon and recently started an STCC pro season with the Honda (Lovin driving that car). I drive using the G25 using the H shifter and manual clutch.

As I'm self taught though, I feel like I've missed some of the basics like maybe I should be shifting gears differently? eg I tend to work my way through all the gears up and down but often wonder if it would be better to shift directly to the gear I need eg 5th to 3rd?

So if you have any tips or advice I'd be really interested to hear it no matter how basic it may be. I'd also really appreciate any advice on how to start in the world of online racing. Does RaceDepartment have any races for noobs?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Nick.

Rob Every · Mar 24, 2009

Leah mate believe me I know what you mean

My situation is a litle different int hat I hvae a decent pace but cant find anymore!!

Same thing really as you will find speed and stuff.

Setup wise, dont do anything drastic. Use the Simbin setups and you will be fine, I do and on publics am top three always (in time not posotion)

Dont worry about being 2 secs behind in qually, very many aliens are quick for a lap but cant sustain it.

As for racing on publics well I prefer it in a way. I dont like the rules and "yes sir no sir" of leagues type racing so take the rough with the sommth in publics

Yes you will get taken out, yes its a waste of time often, but you will still have good races and also more people to race with and learn.

Most good servers are around every day. Just get out there and lap,

If you really are at sea I cant suggest much!! You have the best wheel! It shouldnt be that hard unless you really dont know anything about racing and lines etc.

Most of us take it for granted which is wrong, but some people really dont get it.

One thing I will say is "slow in, fast out" dont worry about being too late on brakes, it is better to be early than late as this allows to get on power before them!

Oh an dont use a 3 series!! lol

Koray Can · Mar 24, 2009

Driver vs Engineer

I'm too new to offer any advice, but I don't see telemetry (for driving, not setups) mentioned above. After hitting a plateau, almost all my gains came via telemetry analysis (some via watching others' lines in time attack).

Right now if I were to do about 20 practice laps, trying to drive exactly the same way (with damage off; fuel consumption off; tire wear off), I could still find sector times that varied more than I felt they did between, laps. Firstly I have to iron out those differences. Then, for instance I might look at the G force data to see if the car could decelerate any harder at a particular corner, and if yes, then I may have to become accurate enough to brake later without botching the corner altogether.

Everything is a factor: the steering wheel movement during the whole turn, the rpms at which you downshift, the braking duration & intensity, etc. You have to find the good lap, understand why it's good, and then be able to recognize it from the cockpit as well so that you can reproduce it.

leahcim · Mar 24, 2009

Dave Stephenson said:
Leachim,

Have browse through these pages, there are lots of useful explinations of driving techniques that may help you.

Yes, these things are useful, thanks

When I say I have no idea, it's not entirely because I haven't read the stuff about turn in, oversteer, understeer, braking points, apexes and so on.

What I lack happens between the theory and the 2D drawings, and the maxims, and what it should look and feel like in practise - in 3D.

Sometimes I think it feels grippy and smooth etc and I'm navigating the corners smoothly (even if I'm not sure I'm following the theory) but, because the lap time is still relatively slow, or slower than my own best, I wonder if I'm just slowing too much and driving under the limit and that's why it feels so smooth e.g When I read something like this :-

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XLlEm0w3GFAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=speed+secrets#PPA64,M1

and the guy says you turn in and with constant throttle to apex, the car starts to drift, I'm at a complete loss. Because that's never happened to me or, if it has, I don't realise it.

A Sterling Moss quote talks about going around a corner is like throwing a dart, once it leaves your hand that's it, which again suggests a sort of out of control thing around the corner...

Clearly I misunderstand somewhere knowledge that simply isn't transferred by writing it down.

One thing I noticed since posting, if I take a selection of my laps and put them in telemetry and overlap the graphs, they are pretty consistent.

Koronary mentions using telemetry, I do use it, but I only have my own to compare with each other.

Perhaps telemetry of someone driving well to compare might help. If their braking points and so on overlap mine, then it's probably a question of improving what I already do. If it looks completely different, then I'm probably starting from scratch.

Thanks for the replies folks.

Rob Every · Mar 24, 2009

Consistency is the key mate in online racing

AS I said earlier, there are very many guys who can hotlap, but a lot of them can only do it for a lap!

Remember this is a sim game, and pushing to the very edge means you will fall off!! Better to be just back from that, you wont get poles and fastest laps, but you will get results

I remember once nearly winning a race in GT Sport for a leagues thing I was in, I qualified 4th nearly a sec and a half off pole, but all my qually laps were with good fuel and setup.

Start of race I got in front after a few laps and led, pulled away until the pit stops thingy that I didnt know was happening and bailed out coz I got lapped doing a full repair, fuel, tyre stop!!

Consistency is the key to getting good results, and it will also sell you better if you want to race for a team of any kind.

leahcim · Mar 24, 2009

Rob Every said:
Consistency is the key mate in online racing

AS I said earlier, there are very many guys who can hotlap, but a lot of them can only do it for a lap!

Yep we've done this one before. I'm slow and have no idea what I'm doing. Consistent doesn't mean good, it means the same. It's self evident that to be faster you need to change what you do. As you said you can't find more pace, you should consider that. I can't tell you what to change - I don't know myself - but you need to change something.

I'm sure once that changes, and I'm not slow then being consistent matters, but my uncle fell of his horse every day for 30 years, he did the same thing wrong every day. That's consistent, but his career as a jockey still wasn't good

Aritan Maia · Mar 24, 2009

leahcim,

I'd like to tell you some words. I'm a noob too. I started real sim racing about 5 months ago. Before that, I used a xbox 360 controler or a keyboard and only played with AIs. Playing with humans is a lot tricky, I'm still learning.

But what I'd like to talk to you about is how to improve your driving, because I see your posts were all about it, right? Do you know GTR2? I'm gonna assume you don't, just to make it easier for me to tell. In GTR2, there is something called driving school. Even for those skeptics, this school is a great piece of work. It's a long journey, but it really teaches you how to drive, how to take a turn, how to accelerate during the turn, how to brake before and in the turn, and another things. Seems stupid, right? But it really isn't!!! It really helps!!! So you could think "if he's talking about it, he obsiously used it". Actualy, I just used it for a little period of time, like some hours or so. I only say that this driving school is interesting, because it was its concept that helped me.

I didn't use the GTR2 driving school, but I got to talk to 2 of the best brazilian drivers in the Simbin series, and what they taught me is the same that the driving school does. The most important thing they told me is "forget about setups now, concentrate in your driving first. Before you can go into setups, you need to know how to brake, how to accelerate, how to turn and how to everything". It's like Dave Flower said in his first post. Sometimes you change something in your setup and go faster. Suddenly you think "my setup made me better", when that is absolutly false!!!! You got better, especially in this initial fase of the learning process.

I was not the slowest driver in the track, but always from 15th to the end of the grid. After I spoke to these guys (using TS), I started to brake bettter, accelerate better, turn better. Of course they were on the server, watched me driving and gave me some tips from time to time. Another thing is really good is to hit drive and then press + and - in your numberpad to see the other drivers on the track. You lear a lot with the aliens doing this and seeing how they enter the turn, how fast they enter the turn, when they accelerate back and everything.

Almost every newcomer in the sim racing scene I see say it's their lack of setup knowledge that slows them down. But often I see that's also false!!!! When you see them driving, they don't know how take the turn, how to brake and don't know a lot of other details like that. THESE THINGS ARE THE KEY!!!! Believe me!!!! My home language isn't english, as you can see by my writing skills, but if yours is, jump in the TS and catch someone that can help you. There's a lot of helpful guys here.

I hope I was clear enough to make you understand where you need to focus, because I really think it's there: braking, accelerating and turning!!! Simple? Just press the paddles and use the wheel? No, it's not that simple if you want to go fast!!!!

Cheers.

Ryan Callan · Mar 24, 2009

If you like to learn visually these videos might help: http://redhawk.blip.tv

I have flying laps on there (amongst other things). Just look for videos titled *Track* in a *Car*

leahcim · Mar 24, 2009

Hi Aritan, I don't use setups or change them.

I know that's a waste of time.

But I have no idea if I'm using the brakes / accelerator etc properly...except that I'm not fast so I can assume I'm not. That's the problem.

Perhaps GTR2 is the answer. Does it actually analyze your driving properly or is it simply like the Gran Turismo license stuff where you get rated on the time no matter how badly you get that time?

Aritan Maia · Mar 24, 2009

leahcim,

infortunately, it's more like Gran Turismo, but you get to see where to start braking, where to enter the turn, where to accelerate again, etc. This is a huge gain in my opinion. But of course you need to practice those concepts a lot!!!

But the best to improve your skills is to speak to someone really good. There's a lot to learn in these fundamentals... How to enter the turn is the most important. If you enter the turn the right way (I don't know how to say it, but it's like the turn path, the best path to make the turn, I don't know

), you can make the turn faster, by using less braking and accelerating earlier...

Weel, the best I can say to you is: find some alien that wants to help and ask him untill he's exhausted!!!

Cheers.

Dave Flower · Mar 24, 2009

So many of us out here who are trying to improve and who want to improve, I want to get us all together in a server for some fun racing/helping each other. I have to say that I think the biggest benefit will be from racing together not talking and theories..

Trouble is that can not be on RD Servers and Teamspeak as there are people here registered with the site but not Racing Club Members - so they cant get in to RD Servers. (Racing Club Members can use servers that are not in events and I keep tying to encourage more use of RD servers)

A viable alternative would be if we arranged to have a sort of 'Public Server Raiding Party' - where we all arrange a time to get together and join a public server together, for a beneficial session. That might be just practice laps it might be racing.

I am reluctant to give out my Steam ID here but if anyone wants to PM me with your Steam ID I will be pleased to add you on my Steam account so we can all get together, some time. Warning - If I dont reply to contact over steam from you, don't keep trying, it probably means I am AFK or am racing and can't reply - Steam messages while you driving can be distracting...

I know RD has its own teamspeak and Steam 'channel' thing, but again we have people who are not able to log into RD, until they join the Racing Club (which is free and does not mean your committed to doing any more than entering events if you want to). Anyway thats my idea for today - please note my Steam ID is personal to me - same as my phone number - if I give it to you I expect you to keep it to yourself, so don't give it to others without asking me first - I won't add people who I don't know or am not expecting to request me as a friend - simply because they could be anyone...

If anyone else thinks Public Server Raiding Parties could be fun feel free, if we get say 10 of us in a server we could have some fun (and were more likely to be able to vote wreckers off) any ideas or suggestions on this anyone?

Dave Flower · Mar 24, 2009

NOTE on the above - If we do meet up Racing Club Members - REMEMBER - under NO circumstances whatsoever should RD Server or Teamspeak Passwords be given to ANYONE - if they are a racing club member they should have them - If your asked for the passwords DO NOT GIVE THEM OUT, even if the Person Looks Like an RD Racing Club Member (its easy to change your ID on Steam or Ingame to appear to be someone else)

leahcim · Mar 25, 2009

Dave Flower said:
If anyone else thinks Public Server Raiding Parties could be fun feel free, if we get say 10 of us in a server we could have some fun (and were more likely to be able to vote wreckers off) any ideas or suggestions on this anyone?

I think it's a good idea Dave, but I need to get sorted with a headset for the PC (and a million other things sorting too that I won't bore you all with) so it might take a bit for me to be ready.

That said, I'd be happy join and use RD servers anyway if that would be better / easier.

Dave Flower · Mar 25, 2009

Glad you think its a good idea m8 - we dont need the headsets to get together - its more about adding each other on Steam and if were in game at the same time meeting up on public servers where theres less pressure to comply to RD rules and where non-club members can play too because they can't get into the RD servers.

On that subject though I would say why don't more people join the RD Racing Club?

- It costs nothing
- By signing up you do NOT commit yourself to actually doing anything
-By signing up you DO get access to the RD Servers - make sure an event is not running though!)
- By signing up you get access to FREE organised events where you can have fun with likeminded and very friendly individuals
- By signing up you will realise that not all RD Club Members are aliens who can put crazy fast lap times in most of us are human and decent laps come only after hard work and commitment.
By signing up you will quickly realise that RD is not all about rules and regulations (which I have to admit can be peoples first impression of RD).

So go on sign up - last night RD had an event which was - turn up if you want and can get in the server (full server most of the night) - 10 mins practice, 10 mins qual, 10 mins Race - then on to next track for 10,10,10 - great fun no pressure, some aliens, all decent honourable racers... All in all great fun - what are you waqiting for?