Hamilton vs Rosberg - Who Was Really to Blame in Austria?

Brandon Wright · Jul 5, 2016

kona076 said:
Rosberg is trying to do what Hamilton has become quite good at but he's yet to learn how to pull it off. Yeah technically he's at fault, but to me he's more at fault for not knowing when and how to pick his battles and maybe even more for not being a popular world champion.

That's pretty much how I see it (or trying to do what fellow German Schumacher was the master of), Nico just doesn't seem to have the finesse to balance that fine line between a "hard racing move" and sloppy chop move, unlike Lewis who seems to be quite adept at it.

Gui Cramer said:
If Nico hadn't locked up maybe he could have turned without contact, and kept Lewis wide and forced to back off.

Nico didn't lock up, at least not visibly. Skip to about 2:15 in this video, there's no tire smoke, Nico was decelerating at pretty much the same rate as Lewis (so his brakes were working to some extent) but he forgets to turn in until he's almost past the apex.

Deleted member 130869 · Jul 5, 2016

I think he was too fast at that angle, there was no way around that understeer.

hitm4k3r · Jul 5, 2016

Pudu said:
Okay, here goes.
Both of these entry and exit tactics require you to be at least somewhat ahead of the other driver. This way he can actually see what your car is doing and react. And the right way to do them is by using definite and firm positioning of your car to tell your opponent "I'm taking this line and you will have to decide to slow a bit, swerve to a different line, or run into the back of me. Your choice." Senna was known for this type of racing all the time.

None of these situations apply to what Nico did in Spielberg.

First he wasn't ahead into the corner - they were side by side. Just being on the inside of a corner doesn't entitle you to anything. In fact Lewis was on the racing line and ran off it to go extra wide to leave enough room for Nico to make the corner.

Aren't you contradicting yourself a bit there? "I'm taking this line and you will have to decide to slow a bit, swerve to a different line, or run into the back of me. Your choice." That's basicly exactly what Nico did and Lewis turned in.

Btw, you should take a closer look at the Canada incident. In that situations Nico was indeed slightly ahead into the corner, with them being exactly next to eachother midturn and Hamilton "having understeer" and forcing him off the track at the exit while Nico still being next to him. If Nico had hold his line and turned in to stay on track and not went of the track, they would have crashed and Hamiltons wing would have gone off. As mentioned earlier, if there is a car next to you, you can't turn in, simple as that. What if there was a wall? Next to the fact that Nico never turned towards Hamilton but just kept going straight. In that situation the driver on the outside line has to adapt not the other way around. Or do you turn in at the Motorway, when there is a car next to you and you want to take the exit? You either have to crash the other car, be really ahead of it or slow down. Lewis never was clearly ahead, nor did he slow down.

On a last note regarding Rosberg lacking raffinesse compared to Schumacher. I am pretty sure that Rosberg would have pulled a smarter move if his breaks weren't gone.

Queequeg · Jul 5, 2016

I can assure you he wanted to win the race because that would have helped his championship perspective a lot more.

wowbagger · Jul 5, 2016

You lost me in the middle there.

Speaking about Spielberg I don't know why so many people talk about Lewis turning in on Nico. They paint it as if Nico was moving along in a perfectly acceptable line and Lewis suddenly cuts across him. Nico entered the corner from the inside and barely turned the wheel - he wouldn't have made the corner with that trajectory. Lewis went in wide from the outside and left lots of room.

Did I contradict myself? I said if you are in front at entry or exit, you can choose the line and let the other guy deal with it. Nico was absolutely not in front, neither was Lewis. But Lewis left racing room. Nico didn't. So I stand by what I said.

I never mentioned Montreal, but if you want my take - Lewis claimed understeer and Nico drove into a gap that was always going to disappear. Nico chose to bail out instead of colliding. No one got a penalty. If they had collided ... I think it would have been put down to a racing incident (except by Toto, who's head would have exploded

).

TeSL9 · Jul 6, 2016

Pudu said:
Montreal Nico drove into a gap that was always going to disappear. ).

Oh ok.... Its all about knowing how to drive into a cap, that you know is not going to disappear

wowbagger · Jul 6, 2016

Correct, which you know because you've watched almost every race since 1997.

If you try to take the racing line from someone else like that, you know that one of you must yield. If you get hung out on the outside of a long sweeping corner at the start of a race, the whole pack will go charging past you. Hamilton lost the racing line at the first/second corner in Melbourne and it ruined his race. He wasn't going to let that happen again. And he knows he can intimidate Nico to move first.

Most of the newer nanny-f1 rules do not apply on the first lap - which again you already know because you've been a fan for 19 years.

Some people may not like Hamilton, but unfortunately for them he is one of the better drivers when it comes to this kind of race craft. And doubly unfortunately for some fans, Nico isn't. No matter how you want to paint the Austria incident in your own mind, everyone in the racing world agrees this was Nico's mistake. Just like when Hamilton closed the door on Kamui too late going into Les Combes, and took himself out - no one's perfect.

But it made for a great race last weekend. I hope Silverstone keeps the tension going.

Marcin Siewierski · Jul 6, 2016

Pudu said:
Some people may not like Hamilton, but unfortunately for them he is one of the better drivers when it comes to this kind of race craft. And doubly unfortunately for some fans, Nico isn't.

Fcuk off, he smashed car at Baku like a teenager, now he won crashing into Britney, jumping on the podium like a Boss. We had it at Barcelona, then Rosberg decided to bail out at Canada now Hamilton crashed into while he could easy avoid it. He is a good driver but miserable human beeing.

Senna was much better driver but he was regreting his decisions after Prost left F1. People should mind this s*it, for me they are acting below certain level - Fcuk them both from Mercedes. The silverstar will be fine...

hitm4k3r · Jul 6, 2016

Pudu said:
Correct, which you know because you've watched almost every race since 1997.

If you try to take the racing line from someone else like that, you know that one of you must yield. If you get hung out on the outside of a long sweeping corner at the start of a race, the whole pack will go charging past you. Hamilton lost the racing line at the first/second corner in Melbourne and it ruined his race. He wasn't going to let that happen again. And he knows he can intinidate Nico to move first.

Most of the newer nanny-f1 rules do not apply on the first lap - which again you already know because you've been a fan for 19 years.

Some people may not like Hamilton, but unfortunately for them he is one of the better drivers when it comes to this kind of race craft. And doubly unfortunately for some fans, Nico isn't. No matter how you want to paint the Austria incident in your own mind, everyone in the racing world agrees this was Nico's mistake. Just like when Hamilton closed the door on Kamui too late going into Les Combes, and took himself out - no one's perfect.

But it made for a great race last weekend. I hope Silverstone keeps the tension going.

You can twist and turn it as you want: there is no rule that dictates you to take the apex or to take certain corners in a certain manner unless you get an advantage while leaving the track limits and there is no rule that says: first lap is wild west as you make it sound like. You know what? **** rules! I pretty much watch motorsport my whole live since 30 years and that pickering about rules and blaming people in recent times has damaged the sport more than anything else. That you believe that everybody in the racing community blames Nico for the mistake is pretty ignorant. Maybe the majority believes it, but it does not mean that it is true. The majority of teenagers believes that Justin Bieber is a good musician. So there you go. Nico stayed on the grey stuff and fought for his position and I expected nothing else. The problem is that Lewis rather picks the sledgehammer and Nico doesn't give in anymore.

It's a racing incident of two people who are racing wheel to wheel. Parts are flying in motorsports for over 50 years now. It doesn't matter if you get hung on the outside of a fast sweeping corner or a tight harpin or whatever. When you are on the outside you have to adapt. Everything else is something that you make up in your own fantasy, but it is not my vision of motorsport. So when Lewis has the right to force people off the track, every other driver does aswell.

Tbh, I miss the times when people didn't have to blame drivers and search for mistakes after a race, when racing was more important than some stupid rules. But that's the modern "racing" mentality of people who propably like to watch modern DTM, where every freaking touch gets an investigation. Now Nico got a warning for finishing the race with a damaged car, after Lewis the little princess complained about it. I wonder where all this nonesense is going.