G27 "shimmy" at dead center

[AMA_King]

I recently pulled my G27 out of storage after 5+ years & it does NOT like rF2.

I found this 10 year old post - but it's not really the same issue - he get's an extreme shake & vibration when he hits a curb or goes off road - I can't even drive a straight line.

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/steering-wheel-shaking-rattling-fix.45642/

I am tempted to try it (FAFO), but was hoping this is a known issue & simply resolved now.

I went thru rF2's controller set up and saved it but the wheel just shimmies back & forth and the car snakes back and forth about 12-18".

I tried diff cars, diff tracks, I exited, rebooted, pulled USB & re-plugged my wheel, restarted game = same / ran setup again = same / tried Logitech Profiler = same / tried more diff cars & diff tracks again, etc.

 

[davehenrie]

i ALWAYS ask simple questions at first just to verify a starting point.
1. did you calibrate the wheel by holding the left and right max positions while you pressed those buttons? Turn the wheel as far left as it will go, hold it there while pressing Max L. Repeat for Max R.
Did you then center the wheel and click on the center button?
2. Logitech wheels often use NEGATIVE ffb settings. Try and adjust your Force Feedback Strength to -70%.
3. Try changing the Rotation Limit from Software to Device Driver.
4. Maybe add a little bit of Minimum Steering Torque and turn down your smoothing to around 4 or 5. You can adjust that later to suit your taste.

 

[RasmusP]

I recently pulled my G27 out of storage after 5+ years & it does NOT like rF2.

I found this 10 year old post - but it's not really the same issue - he get's an extreme shake & vibration when he hits a curb or goes off road - I can't even drive a straight line.

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/steering-wheel-shaking-rattling-fix.45642/

I am tempted to try it (FAFO), but was hoping this is a known issue & simply resolved now.

I went thru rF2's controller set up and saved it but the wheel just shimmies back & forth and the car snakes back and forth about 12-18".

I tried diff cars, diff tracks, I exited, rebooted, pulled USB & re-plugged my wheel, restarted game = same / ran setup again = same / tried Logitech Profiler = same / tried more diff cars & diff tracks again, etc.

View attachment 629426

Looking at these settings, this should definitely NOT happen.
However your "automatic" wheel angle is only 198° and that is definitely an issue!

No one officially writes that down but reducing the wheel angle compresses the force feedback.

Is your Logitech control panel (profiler, g-hub) set to 900°?

If it's lower than 900°, the wheel might go crazy even with only 70% overall gain in the game.

Please post a screenshot of your Logitech settings.

Oh and don't change anything in your config files like from that "fix". It's 10 years old, there's no need to change anything in these files anymore!

 

[AMA_King]

i ALWAYS ask simple questions at first just to verify a starting point.
1. did you calibrate the wheel by holding the left and right max positions while you pressed those buttons? Turn the wheel as far left as it will go, hold it there while pressing Max L. Repeat for Max R.
Did you then center the wheel and click on the center button?
2. Logitech wheels often use NEGATIVE ffb settings. Try and adjust your Force Feedback Strength to -70%.
3. Try changing the Rotation Limit from Software to Device Driver.
4. Maybe add a little bit of Minimum Steering Torque and turn down your smoothing to around 4 or 5. You can adjust that later to suit your taste.

RE: 1 - yes, I ran the calibration wizard & did all those things & later I even saved my own profile, tried the settings again, changed cars, tracks, exited game, rebooted, restarted game - violent wobble-wobble-wobble persisted @ diff cars, diff tracks, it was repeatable behavior no matter what I did.

RE: 2 - interesting idea - I think Assetto has a check box that inverts FFB - I'll look into this, thx.

RE: 3 - I was NOT using Logitech Profiler for the 1st several tries, also trying diff tracks / cars, reboot, etc. but then I tried the profiler & set rotation @ 540 - the games calibration wizard told me the game set it to 450~480 range (because I ran it several different times, might have had it a bit more than 90 when it set & saved that 1/2 rotation / turn to center, etc.)

I pondered changing Rotation Limit from Software to Device Driver, but I had just calibrated the wheel again for the 4-5th time? and got bored, sso I never tried changing that... thx for the idea.

RE: 4 - I'll try anything once & twice if I like it!

 

[AMA_King]

Looking at these settings, this should definitely NOT happen.
However your "automatic" wheel angle is only 198° and that is definitely an issue!

No one officially writes that down but reducing the wheel angle compresses the force feedback.

Is your Logitech control panel (profiler, g-hub) set to 900°?

If it's lower than 900°, the wheel might go crazy even with only 70% overall gain in the game.

Please post a screenshot of your Logitech settings.

Oh and don't change anything in your config files like from that "fix". It's 10 years old, there's no need to change anything in these files anymore!

Noted above - I was NOT using Logitech Profiler for the 1st several tries & thought it was weird that the calibration wizard seemed to stop my wheel at about 5/8 or 3/4 turn left - then it says center it - turn right (same behavior stopping at 5/8 or 3/4 right) then you turn to 90 & click IIRC.

After I started Profiler (having set it to 540 - I don't like 900) the wheel turned almost 7/8 in the calibration wizard & I smiled because I thought it got fixed - but NOPE.

I'll screw w/ 900 tomorrow & also try the other suggestions.

Here's my current LP settings - but I was NOT using the Profiler at first & it didn't solve anything w/ my current settings

Finally, thx for confirming the 10 year old fix is of no use...

 

[Durge Driven]

If you read any rF2 guide the first thing it will warn is turn car specific multiplier down you have it set at 100%.
Start at 50% but this is also reliant on the vehicle and terrain, you can't just set and forget you test every combo you want to use because rF2 FFB is dynamic just the way you drive a lap can affect how FFB reacts.
Rule is the heavier the car and steering the less car specific multiplier.
rF2 FFB is partly affected by real time physics where most other sims have canned effects.
P.S. As far as reverse effects for Logitech wheels goes I thought that was limited to earlier gmotor. GTR2, rFactor you do set reversed at least I did with all my Logitech wheels. First wheel I used on rF2 beta was Black Momo and used positive force but with car specific lowered even more then usual or it would tear plastic wheel apart

 

[davehenrie]

Hey Durge, according to Lazza, there has been a change to the FFB Force and the Car Specific. Apparently they are now interchangeable. But I agree with your assesment, I always set the wheel force setting to 100% and use the Car Specific Multiplier to address specific skins of specific cars.(new users: Car Specific ONLY changes the car you are using at that time. If you adjust a red car and then come back on another day and choose the blue car of the same make, all the settings will revert to the default value)

 

[davehenrie]

After I started Profiler (having set it to 540 - I don't like 900) the wheel turned almost 7/8 in the calibration wizard & I smiled because I thought it got fixed - but NOPE.

I'll screw w/ 900 tomorrow & also try the other suggestions.


rF2 will do the thinking for you if you start in Windows at 900°. Set your profiler to 900°, then the Vehicle SET option should automatically reduce your steering lock to around 450 to 540° depending upon the specific type of car you are driving.

 

[davehenrie]

Noted above - I was NOT using Logitech Profiler for the 1st several tries & thought it was weird that the calibration wizard seemed to stop my wheel at about 5/8 or 3/4 turn left - then it says center it - turn right (same behavior stopping at 5/8 or 3/4 right) then you turn to 90 & click IIRC.

After I started Profiler (having set it to 540 - I don't like 900) the wheel turned almost 7/8 in the calibration wizard & I smiled because I thought it got fixed - but NOPE.

I'll screw w/ 900 tomorrow & also try the other suggestions.

Here's my current LP settings - but I was NOT using the Profiler at first & it didn't solve anything w/ my current settings

Finally, thx for confirming the 10 year old fix is of no use...

View attachment 629511

sorry couldn't get this to format correctly so repeating my answer.
rF2 will do the thinking for you if you start in Windows at 900°. Set your profiler to 900°, then the Vehicle SET option should automatically reduce your steering lock to around 450 to 540° depending upon the specific type of car you are driving.

 

[AMA_King]

Thanks to everyone for your help!
The shimmy-shimmy-shake-rattle & wobble is GONE!
I applied stuff from all of you, so I am a bit skewed on what helped me most.
~ I think setting Logi Profiler to 900 was the key starting point.

Back in the day, I would make one change at a time in all my racing games & write each step on a legal pad & make notes & had a few file folders, but I am already impatient with rF2 & remember why I barely played it upon it's release.

Steering feels pretty soft & wish washy, so I'd appreciate any additional advice!

I'm guessing you all have better wheels than my 10 year old G27 & Logi Profiler, but hopefully most of your settings & advice will translate.

Here's where I am at right now.

 

[davehenrie]

Thanks to everyone for your help!
The shimmy-shimmy-shake-rattle & wobble is GONE!
I applied stuff from all of you, so I am a bit skewed on what helped me most.
~ I think setting Logi Profiler to 900 was the key starting point.

Back in the day, I would make one change at a time in all my racing games & write each step on a legal pad & make notes & had a few file folders, but I am already impatient with rF2 & remember why I barely played it upon it's release.

Steering feels pretty soft & wish washy, so I'd appreciate any additional advice!

I'm guessing you all have better wheels than my 10 year old G27 & Logi Profiler, but hopefully most of your settings & advice will translate.

Here's where I am at right now.

View attachment 629700

just curious, what are all those TROY1, TROY2 etc listings on your calibration screen?

 

[AMA_King]

just curious, what are all those TROY1, TROY2 etc listings on your calibration screen?

Those are my incremental saves - my name is Troy & I used settings / advice from 1 guy & saved it as Troy 1, used the next guy in this threads advice & saved it as Troy 2, etc. eventually combined some advice & tweaked them & found settings that worked best & saved that as Troy 6 (attached pic above).

 

[RasmusP]

Thanks to everyone for your help!
The shimmy-shimmy-shake-rattle & wobble is GONE!
I applied stuff from all of you, so I am a bit skewed on what helped me most.
~ I think setting Logi Profiler to 900 was the key starting point.

Back in the day, I would make one change at a time in all my racing games & write each step on a legal pad & make notes & had a few file folders, but I am already impatient with rF2 & remember why I barely played it upon it's release.

Steering feels pretty soft & wish washy, so I'd appreciate any additional advice!

I'm guessing you all have better wheels than my 10 year old G27 & Logi Profiler, but hopefully most of your settings & advice will translate.

Here's where I am at right now.

View attachment 629700

Looks all good but the centering spring must be off!
It's not a force feedback effect. It's a game independent centering effect that centers your wheel, even when drifting!
The centering spring is only for games that have no ffb.
And I honestly never saw a game that had no ffb...
Even need for speed in 2003 had ffb, lol.

Another thing:
What car are you using there?
176° steering angle looks like a Kart or so?

To check if rF2 detects your 900° correctly, please go into the settings like on your screenshot and turn the wheel to the maximum.
The triangle bar on the input calibration for steering should fill accordingly.
Does it max out after 90° of turning your G27? (176/2 = 83° per side).
Or does it max out when you rotated the G27 by about 450°?

 

[AMA_King]

@davehenrie - please post your settings, I'd be happy to try them, but if you have a super $$$$ wheel they may be useless for my cheap wheel, however, I could revert easily by loading my saved settings in Troy 6

 

[RasmusP]

Please post your settings, I'd be happy to try them, but if you have a super $$$$ wheel they may be useless for my cheap wheel, however, I could revert easily by loading my saved settings in Troy 6

I had a G27 for 5 years before buying a fanatec csw 2.5.
All settings are identical apart from the overall ffb strength set to 50% instead of 100% and the minimum ffb set to 1% instead of 13%.

A more expensive wheel doesn't really change much apart from gain and minimum ffb

 

[AMA_King]

I had a G27 for 5 years before buying a fanatec csw 2.5.
All settings are identical apart from the overall ffb strength set to 50% instead of 100% and the minimum ffb set to 1% instead of 13%.

A more expensive wheel doesn't really change much apart from gain and minimum ffb

Sorry - I edited that & applied it to dave henrie

 

[AMA_King]

@RasmusP - RE: centering - I'll try it turned off (I usually turn it down to 30%) but I certainly feel the effects of a real car where it just returns to a straight position when you let off the wheel after a turn... but like I said before - I'll try anything!

 

[RasmusP]

@RasmusP - RE: centering - I'll try it turned off (I usually turn it down to 30%) but I certainly feel the effects of a real car where it just returns to a straight position when you let off the wheel after a turn... but like I said before - I'll try anything!

Yeah if you're driving a car with grip, the centering spring works very similar to reality.
The issues start when you lose the rear and start to slide.
The rear rotates, while the front wheels still have grip.
This, like when starting a drift, spins your steering wheel around.

But it's not your front wheels that are turning! They stay in position, have grip and continue to just roll straight.
But due to the car rotating, the steering wheel needs to turn accordingly.

In numbers:
Driving straight = front wheels 0°, chassis 0°, steering wheel 0°

Doing a normal turn = front wheels 20°, chassis 0°, steering wheel 90°

Drifting = front wheels 0°, chassis 60°, steering wheel 270°

So normally, when you do a left turn, you steer left, the front wheels want to stay straight and the ffb wants to keep the steering wheel straight, so you push against a force.
Now when you stomp on the throttle with something like a GT3 car without traction control, the rear will start to slide and the ffb will push the wheel not towards the center, but to the right.
In my drifting example, the ffb will push the steering wheel to 270°, since the front wheels want to stay straight.
But the chassis is rotated by 60°.

If you enable the centering spring, it will push it just to the center like a dumb idiot.
So if you let go of the wheel, it won't be:
Drifting = Front wheels 0°, chassis 60°, steering wheel 270°

It will be front wheels 0°, chassis 60°, steering wheel 0°

The issue is that when the wheel stays centered while drifting, you're not drifting, you're just spinning out like an amateur

So in short, with the centering spring active:
- you can't catch a stepping out rear end
- you definitely can't drift
- it's completely unrealistic


The ffb from rF2 will already do what the centering spring does while driving within the grip limits!

 

[AMA_King]

@RasmusP - well your second question (what car) just gets me closer to quitting rF2...

I questioned if I read someone else's post elsewhere correctly that said you have to change your wheel settings every time you change cars... but I assumed they meant the car set-up.

I specifically ran my wheel tests & saved my Troy 1~6 with a 397 track & car, but now you made me wonder if I ran the calibration wizard while I still had a Spec Miata 2 & then I changed to the 397 car track & car & created my other saves...

I used - Indy 2020 + BMW M4 Class 1 2021

 

[AMA_King]

QUOTE @RasmusP: "...with the centering spring active:
- you can't catch a stepping out rear end..."

This might change my entire racing career in every game I ever played!

I can NEVER catch a spin when my rear starts to slide.

Thanks again - testing ensues....