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G27 jolts and rumbles when handling oversteer

Discussion in 'Stock Car Extreme' started by smove, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. Hi folks,

    maybe someone can provide some help. Here is what happens:

    When handling oversteer and managing slides with quick countersteer movements in just any car, my G27 jolts and rumbles quite terribly which can be felt and even heared extensively. It just feels like my wheel is coming closer to its death with every slide, leading my driving style to a more subtle, clean and surely faster one, but the fun is gone. :( The problem seems to occur mostly when the correction of the slide happens around the center of the wheel and not when turned in to a certain degree. It feels like induced, "crazy" drifts high above the car's limit, leading to steering angles far from the center, aren't as malicious as slides that are slightly above the limit and with the steering wheel moving around its center.

    The question is: Is that just a limitation of the wheel with its two FFB motors? I guess not because in other sims like LFS for example (Don't blame me for being this retro! ;)) this just doesn't happen. Drifting and managing oversteer is just as smooth as butter, regardless of the wheel angle.

    My ingame FFB strength is set to 50% and in the Logitech Profiler it's 70% (centering spring 50%). These are my controller.ini settings:

    FFB Device Type="1" // Type of FFB controller: 0=none 1=wheel, 2=stick/custom, 3=rumble pad.
    FFB Effects Level="1" // Number of FFB effects to use: 0=No Effects, 1=Low, 2=Medium, 3=High, 4=Full, 5=Custom.
    FFB Gain="0.50345" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to 1.0.
    FFB Ignore Controllers="0" // Do not use FFB on: 1=controller1, 2=controller2, 4=controller3 (or add values to ignore multiple controllers)
    FFB Throttle FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Throttle effects on throttle axis, 1 = throttle effects on steering axis.
    FFB Brake FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 = brake effects on steering axis.
    FFB steer vibe freq mult="0.20000" // Controls frequency of steering vibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering vibration.
    FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.03500" // Magnitude of steering vibration at 0mph (reference point).
    FFB steer vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero magnitude).
    FFB steer vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB steer force prediction="0.00100" // Time into the future that force is predicted, to help counteract wheel latency (0.0 to disable)
    FFB steer force max change="10.00000" // Maximum change per second based on current difference between calculated and applied force, to help avoid jerky behavior (values under 15 or so should reduce jerkiness, 100 disables)
    FFB steer force neutral range="0.00100" // Max distance from center "neutral force" location where forces are reduced to help avoid oscillation (0.0 to disable) ALT: 0.03
    FFB steer force neutral function="0.50000" // Function to apply near neutral force location, in order to tune out FFB "deadzone" but keeping oscillations in check: 0.0=original, 1.0=new ALT: 1.0
    FFB steer force exponent="0.80000" // Steering force output "sensitivity". Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity.
    FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).
    FFB steer force output max="1.80000" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
    FFB steer force grip function="0.30000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0 (previous hardcoded value was 1.0) - lower values will make steering force decrease LATER as front tire grip is lost - try 0.3 ALT: 0.7
    FFB steer force grip weight="0.90000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
    FFB steer force grip factor="0.80000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6 (previously hardcoded to 0.4). How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.
    FFB steer front grip fract="1.00000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0 (previous hardcoded value was 0.0), additional effect of front grip loss on steering force
    FFB steer update threshold="0.00000" // Amount of change required to update steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering force updated more frequently = lower frame rate.
    FFB steer friction coefficient="0.30000" // Coefficient to use for steering friction. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
    FFB steer friction saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use for steering friction. Range: 0 - 1.0
    FFB steer damper coefficient="0.17500" // Coefficient to use for steering damper. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
    FFB steer damper saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use for steering damper. Range: 0 - 1.0
    FFB throttle vibe freq mult="0.17000" // Scales actual engine frequency to force FFB vibration frequency. Suggested range: 0.10 to 0.50
    FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.09000" // Magnitude of engine vibration at 0rpm (reference point).
    FFB throttle vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude).
    FFB throttle vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB throttle vibe update thresh="0.08000" // Amount of change required to update throttle vibe (0.0 - 1.0)
    FFB brake vibe freq mult="0.90000" // Scales actual brake rotational frequency to force feedback vibration frequency.
    FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.10000" // Magnitude of brake vibration at 0mph (reference point).
    FFB brake vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB brake vibe zero magnitude).
    FFB brake vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB brake vibe update thresh="0.05000" // Amount of change required to update brake vibe (0.0 to 1.0)
    FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.25000" // How strong the rumble strip rumble is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect.
    FFB rumble strip freq mult="0.60000" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier 1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev.
    FFB rumble strip wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB rumble strip pull factor="-0.50000" // How strongly wheel pulls right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5.
    FFB rumble strip update thresh="0.07500" // Amount of change required to update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0)
    FFB jolt magnitude="1.00000" // How strong jolts from other cars (or walls) are. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.

    Help would be greatly appreciated! :)
    Cheers,
    Oliver
     
  2. I didn't read your controller file, but it looks like the center spring is the culprit. Everything on the Logitech profiler should be at 0. Of course, not the strength.

    There's a screenshot with the settings somewhere on this forum. A quick search for G27 should give you more clues.
     
    • Beer Beer x 1
  3. Oh, now I read it... This is too high! I'm using 0.04 (4%).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. JoelGL

    JoelGL
    Premium Member

    I understood this to be somewhat equivalent to the Minimum Force to counteract the typical deadzone in the center of LOFI wheels, like my G27. Using the Wheelcheck software, mine's shows 19% but I've set mine to 16% (ie. FFB steer force neutral function="0.16000").

    Nonetheless, FFB steer force neutral function="0.50000" is quite too high, as it's the same as 50%!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Thank you all for the quick and helpful replies!

    Deactivating the center spring indeed reduced trouble to a great extent. Sometimes there are still minor jolts though, but driving in the described zones feels a lot more composed and smooth now.

    But now again steering resistance around the center has decreased a lot – are there any solutions for that? I guess reducing FFB steer force neutral function would be rather counterproductive ...
     
  6. Well, maybe it is supposed to be low resistance around the centre on a straight line. It depends on which car. The Lancer is very light for me around the centre, but not the formulas. And I have a G27, with only 4% on that function.

    And personally, I'd rather have light FFB than forces that shouldn't exist going through my wheel.

    Anyway, when I get home I'll compare my controller file with yours and see if there's something else different.