From TM to DD

[guiem184]

Hi.

I am thinking to change my wheel base

Actually I am using a TM TS-XW on a PC (I had problems to buy a TS-PC) and I am thinking to change it to a DD wheel base.

I was looking for some DD wheel bases but I never thought the market was so broad.

My first election is MOZA R21 with some complements (A Moza Steering Wheel for iRacing and ACC, extra QR for a real Steering Wheel because I play so much on ETS 2, etc.)

I was reading something on the net and watching some videos on YT about de wheel base and many simracers comment that the R16 is more adaptable for the amateur public

In other hand I have the option of VRS wheel base or Simagic Ultimate (+ accesories needed to attach a steering wheel) but I have heard it has problems with temperatures

I need some help because, at this moment, I don't know wich option will be better for me. I want to increase the hours on the simulator and play more to the games I have and will play to the new sims that are on the way

Obiously I have an aluminium rig (This new wheel base will not be attached to a desk)

 

[Clover11]

I went from an old Logitec gear drive wheel to a Fanatec CSL while it was belt driven, similar to your TM. Then from the belt drive to a Simucube 2 Pro. The step up in experience from the belt drive to the DD was much bigger than the gear driven to belt drive. I'm not sure I need all the power I have. The R16 would probably be fine for me, but I also probably would have wanted more in the natural way that you always want more.

The lower power DDs were not on the market when I got mine, but I'm really interested in how well they do. I've toyed around with the idea of buying my brother a setup now that they are on the market. It seems to me that the lower end of the market has gotten a lot better the past couple years.

I can't really speak to other DDs as the Simucube 2 Pro is the only one I have driven. But Monza and VRS both seem to be well liked and good options.

Monza wheels look pretty good for the cost but I have never held one or driven on the Monza bases so I can't really tell you much. I'm looking for a new formula wheel and can only use the top Monza option with the integrated dash as that is the only one open outside their ecosystem, however, it is significantly cheaper then it competitors with dashes. Wheel choice is something you should consider with the base since it can lock you into ecosystems or possibly open up console racing. The Simucube I have has a great quick release system in my opinion and the wireless is great, but however, wheels are expensive and mainly high end options.

I will add the DDs seem to be more reliable than prior wheel bases. I don't really see many people with problems like the old wheels but maybe I am oblivious. I feel a little bit better about spending what I did since it does feel much more like something that will last than a toy. I've put over 750 hours on mine now and seems new, other than the wheel. I'm guessing this base will last me a long time and you may consider saving up longer and spending more if you are expecting it to last a longer than the prior generation.

Whatever you decide on, I bet it will feel like a big step up. Good luck and hope you enjoy it.

 

[Lloyd Johnston]

Have you seen the new Fanatec ClubSport DD bases?

ClubSport

fanatec.com

Watch some vids, people are saying good things about them, the ClubSport DD+ might be even better than the DD1 as it's got newer tech in it.

I have a CSL DD 8nm it's very good but I wonder if I'm missing out on not being in the 12 to 15nm range.

My CSL DD never seems to have much heat and watching videos about the new ClubSport DD bases they seem to have been designed to stay cool too and sustain their force rather than having die off.

I still have my old TM TS-XW in a box

 

[guiem184]

Have you seen the new Fanatec ClubSport DD bases?

ClubSport

fanatec.com

Watch some vids, people are saying good things about them, the ClubSport DD+ might be even better than the DD1 as it's got newer tech in it.

I have a CSL DD 8nm it's very good but I wonder if I'm missing out on not being in the 12 to 15nm range.

My CSL DD never seems to have much heat and watching videos about the new ClubSport DD bases they seem to have been designed to stay cool too and sustain their force rather than having die off.

I still have my old TM TS-XW in a box

I am no so happy with Fanatec. Years ago they let mi down with a PS2 wheel and now it seem to be needed to entry in his system to have a good steering wheel. (BMW wheel for example)

 

[jeffnc]

I haven't tried different DD wheels, but I've tried multiple belt or gear wheels, and I can tell you that going from a non-DD on a desk to a DD on a frame is such a step up in immersion and quality, that with the newer DD wheels on the market, it just doesn't make sense not to get one. Yes they are more expensive, but to my mind, buying a "good" belt wheel when a DD wheel is within reach financially is just a waste of money. If you're REALLY on a tight budget, then get the cheapest wheel you can get just to get in the game. Otherwise, bite the bullet and suffer the pain and get a DD.

I got a Fanatec CSL DD with the boost power supply, and I don't feel I need anything more. Especially with the new QR2 attachment system, the feeling is amazing. I'm not a real racer and I doubt I ever will be. Maybe if I have raced in F1 I might be craving a higher force wheel. But at the price point of these new wheels (Moza, etc) it's low enough to get you into the hobby, but good enough to really immerse yourself and make it believable.

My first wheel for the Fanatec was the CSL P1 V2 ($120). I just got a second wheel for GT and F1, which is the CSL Elite McLaren GT3 ($200). I went with the QR2 when I got this, and that has improved the feel of the P1, and now both of them feel fantastic. The QR1 is available as a free connector when you buy a wheel, but it was out of stock (I assume they're phasing it out) and there was an additional cost for the QR2, but still that is the way to go. I got the QR2 Lite by the way, which is the cheapest option, but still approved for wheel bases with power up to the CSL DD with boost (8nM, I think.) That version is not appropriate for higher force bases, and you would want to switch to an all metal design, like standard QR2 or better.

I can tell you there is zero heat buildup on the Fanatec CSL base. It has some minor cooling fins, but even after an F1 session, I'm not sure I can even tell it it's any warmer than any other piece of metal in the room, such as my rig frame.

The Moza R9 would be the equivalent of the CSL DD w/boost. I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding the R16 being more adaptable. But sounds like you're looking at some high power wheel bases.

 

[RasmusP]

I went from G27 to a TS-PC for a few weeks but then had issues, got a refund and bought a 8 Nm CSW 2.5, which is quite close to a DD. I needed to add damping and reduce the roughness.
I then ordered a CSL DD after it became widely available, but the upgrade wasn't really there, so I sent it back.

I now have upgraded to a Moza R12 because I couldn't find a Fanatec wheel to my liking. Their rims are all quite thin and the button boxes aren't to my liking.
I love the McLaren v2 but I wanted something not plastic by now.

So about the R12: I'm using the Pokorny Engineering GT2 Buttonplate (193€) + Simraceshop/Cube Controls 300mm open GT rim at it (99€) + Moza QR (65€).
At 100% wheelbase I'm using 55% Gain in AC and ACC and I need suede gloves to drive well. Without the grippy gloves, I can only use 45% Gain before starting to drive worse.

At the simracing expo two weeks ago, I drove the Moza R16, Simucube 2 Pro, Asetek, Fanatec DD+ etc.
They all feel almost identical, when setup "nicely", apart from some fine tuning.
Nothing that would matter for me and I'm very sensitive about this stuff!

What sticks out with Moza: they have a few cool things in their software:
1. FFB Equalizer:
You can tune the roughness/vibrations for different frequencies. I turned kerbs down a lot, but boosted the very high frequencies. So my neighbours don't want to kill me when I go over kerbs but I still feel the little details when understeering and scrubbing the front tyres. Normally, you just have "smoothing", which first kills the high frequencies.

2. FFB Curve:
Most sims just output the calculated forces on the steering rod. But that's without power steering! So your wheel is pretty soft when going straight but punches you when cornering.
Minimum force settings give you that ugly notch in the center.
What you can do with Moza's ffb curve: just drag 5 points around and when letting go, the software will make a smooth curve out of it.
I'm boosting the first 20% of ffb a tiny bit while lowering the maximum peak force a little.
This feels similar to power steering and I absolutely love it!
I didn't find any review using it or even really mentioning it apart from "it's a tab of the software".
For me, this is THE argument for Moza.
Dirt Rally 2.0 feels very floaty and is almost dead in the center. Not anymore!
WRC 8/9/10/Gen were awful in my opinion due to the FFB. Not anymore! I actually love wrc 10 now.

3. Hands off protection:
Activate it and when your wheel starts to to crazy oscillating or turning without resistance, the base will clamp down the steering wheel until you firmly grab it again.

4. Rotation Degrees different for what the sims see and what the Moza Softlock is:
I've set ACC to 1200 (max) and the base to 1200. If you want a Softlock, which is perfect with Moza btw!, just turn down the Softlock degrees to match the real car.
No need to adjust the sim too and no need to adjust the ffb settings (lower rotation range = stronger ffb).
You can sync them though, to be like all the other Wheelbase)

5. Softlock:
You can adjust the strength nicely.
The wheel won't bounce off at the end. It will just "stick" instantly. Similar to a real car. Quite amazing in my opinion, I've never seen such a nice softlock! Amazing for drifting.


I was very sceptical of the change to Moza. Chinese brand, quite new and the R9 seems to have overheating issues in some cases.
Gudsen is big company though, mainly known for automotive stuff and they also produce very good camera gimbals.
By now you can order from multiple local stores in Germany, so I bought it.

My R12 (and the one of a team mate, we both upgraded within the same week) stays cool to the touch, no ffb fading, no noise, nothing.
When it's off, you feel some "stepping", but that's completely gone when you power it up.
When it's on but you're not driving, it will sound like some quiet "munching". Probably some electric stuff. Goes away when driving and the 6th cool feature:
"work mode" on/off. You keep it on and plugged in, then you flip that switch in the software and it shuts into standby.
Flil the switch again and it's instantly back on.

In any case, I was sceptical, but I'm simply amazed by it. I don't need more strength at all, it has plenty of cool features and anything with ffb is just pure fun now