FIA

[blekenbleu]

I can barely wait to learn what penalties are imposed to affect Australian results for otherwise inconsequential infractions. One wonders how much money FIA folks have riding on results..

 

[jgf]

FIA works by the Golden Rule - those with the gold make the rules.

 

[blekenbleu]

Rules are one thing; soap opera scripting is another.

 

[Jan Larsen]

Well, the first rule Alonso got booked for has been there for ages and tbh, parking in the wrong spot is pretty noob, especially for the most experienced guy on the grid. The second penalty is also one that has been there for ages, but it was interpreted and put to use incorrectly which is why it got overturned. Incompetence? Perhaps, but is sure wasnt a good job.

Now, getting a penalty for incorrectly stopping in your start box is just stupid when there's clearly no advantage gained, he actually made it worse for himself by going slightly more towards the dirty side. There should be some common sense in the rule.
The other one is fine but has to be used correctly and the stewards didnt. That falls on Wittich & Co.

 

[stigs2cousin]

From what I heard the startboxes were made smaller recently and the Stewarts are much more strict now than they were last season ( someone on the internet told me so take it with caution)

Still it´s the responsibilty of the (highly payed) professional at the wheel to know how to line up and than do it correctly.

Alonso ****ed that up and so the penalty was in the rules and fair.

The second penalty was in a very big grey area because there was only a "best practice/gentleman´s agreement" that a jack touching the car would be considered "working on it" Especially grey as the front jack is used to position the car in it´s pit field and to keep it still ( no handbrake)

McLaren argued these facts and was ruled in the right, so the second penalty was overruled.

The protocolls were enacted correctly though the procedures were not, as the second penalty was not given on the grounds of a written rule ( which we can expect anytime soon)

On the other hand it´s exactly like this how rules evolve and grow with the day to day requirements of the sports.

My conclusion:

It all worked out in the end,
Was it embarrassing to stumble around like this in front of TV cameras? Hell Yeah.

 

[Ruttman98]

From what I heard the startboxes were made smaller recently and the Stewarts are much more strict now than they were last season ( someone on the internet told me so take it with caution)

Still it´s the responsibilty of the (highly payed) professional at the wheel to know how to line up and than do it correctly.

Alonso ****ed that up and so the penalty was in the rules and fair.

The second penalty was in a very big grey area because there was only a "best practice/gentleman´s agreement" that a jack touching the car would be considered "working on it" Especially grey as the front jack is used to position the car in it´s pit field and to keep it still ( no handbrake)

McLaren argued these facts and was ruled in the right, so the second penalty was overruled.

The protocolls were enacted correctly though the procedures were not, as the second penalty was not given on the grounds of a written rule ( which we can expect anytime soon)

On the other hand it´s exactly like this how rules evolve and grow with the day to day requirements of the sports.

My conclusion:

It all worked out in the end,
Was it embarrassing to stumble around like this in front of TV cameras? Hell Yeah.

Does anyone know how fast Alonso's actual pitstop was? In real time it seemed superfast--like sub-2 seconds.

It could be argued that even though no work was performed duting the duration of 5-second penalty, the pit crew was effectively given more time to adjust their positions perfectly to best execute the wheel change as compared to the frantic blur of a typical non-penalized stop.

Thoughts?

 

[blekenbleu]

more time to adjust their positions perfectly

absolutely, so maybe saving 1/4 second, for a net 4.75 second penalty.

Still a soap opera script IMO, summarized well by Jolyon:

 

[jgf]

In all racing series rules and regulations have become so draconian, so restrictive, that there is scarcely a race today without someone being penalized for some minor infraction that just a few years ago was not even a consideration.

Race results, even championships, are often more dependent on adherence to these "nitpicky" rules than to the abilities of drivers and cars. If a driver or team does something that gives them an unfair advantage they should be penalized commensurate with that advantage, but breaking some insignificant rule that has no material effect on the race should not result in a penalty that does affect the race. A classic example of this was some years ago when the NASCARE championship was decided by a mere 30 points; the driver who finished second had, earlier in the year, been docked 50 points for the heinous atrocity of a gasket being 3mm too thick.

 

[stigs2cousin]

In the "gasket conspiracy case" for me it would depend what function this gasket would have.

Did it influence the intake system (Toyota Turbo Cheat), was it a body gasket (maybe influencing aerodynamics/topspeed) or just a gasket in the fuel delivery system which of course has no influence on power whatsoever

Remember:

"It´s only cheating if you are caught out of the grey area"

 

[Antony Snook]

In the 90's when i started watching F1 it had basic rules and they have made more. Sometimes a driver dose something intentionaly or unintentionaly and nothing is done. Others times something is. And the FIA can be seen to be badgering certain drivers over others. Like Lewis Hamillton becuse he is a popular and highly rated driver with a lot of media attention. If it was a driver further down in mid or back pack no one will care. As Niki Lauda said it's the FIA trying to manipulate the rules and make a lottery result.

 

[bi11y]

We could have hoped the FIA might have started gettings things more consistent and better organised after the crapshoot of a season in 2021...

Unfortunately I think the massive drama of the final race took too much focus off the fact the fact that the stewarding throughout the season was pretty terrible.

Still a little more amusement to be had from misfortune of the Fl organisers.

All the while the RedBull Parade continues to make a farce of the salary cap breaches.

 

[Jan Larsen]

All the while the RedBull Parade continues to make a farce of the salary cap breaches.

This is what infuriates me the most. You overspend, get slapped over the wrist and continue to dominate even more.

 

[Pete Conway]

What infuriates me is that one team get it wrong and try to sabotage another team's sponsorship deal by approaching them trying to convince them that the team they supportis bringing them into disrepute... before the FIA releases it's verdict, then said 'loser' team continues to make the same mistake with their next car.
however, I guess that's what happens when the pencil pushers get in charge of anything... yeah, yeah, business is business

 

[muzikant]

all the years mercedes took advantage of the party modes..in Qualy the flex wings...and what else did they have the tie system..the RB budget violation has been so small and rather inflated by the friends of sky sport.

the dominance is that they have built a very good car, which everyone is now trying to copy and Max Verstappen is a kind of Senna Schumacher.. I hope for some more competition though.

that said..it's still formula 1 and I think because of the penalty RB got they could have development problems in the second half of the season

 

[bi11y]

all the years mercedes took advantage of the party modes..in Qualy the flex wings...and what else did they have the tie system..the RB budget violation has been so small and rather inflated by the friends of sky sport.

the dominance is that they have built a very good car, which everyone is now trying to copy and Max Verstappen is a kind of Senna Schumacher.. I hope for some more competition though.

that said..it's still formula 1 and I think because of the penalty RB got they could have development problems in the second half of the season

Flex-wing advantages were more Red Bull than Mercedes... but many teams take advantage of loopholes in rules until the thing is banned. It is not cheating when used before the legality is clarified.

The RedBull violation is significant and the FIA made announcements when introducing the budget caps that they would be strict...

The penalty on RedBull is pretty much a slap on the wrist and will have no effect other than the commentators trying to save face for the sport blabber on about it being a penalty... and Horner will continue to whine about it as if it makes a difference.

 

[muzikant]

Flex-wing advantages were more Red Bull than Mercedes... but many teams take advantage of loopholes in rules until the thing is banned. It is not cheating when used before the legality is clarified.

The RedBull violation is significant and the FIA made announcements when introducing the budget caps that they would be strict...

The penalty on RedBull is pretty much a slap on the wrist and will have no effect other than the commentators trying to save face for the sport blabber on about it being a penalty... and Horner will continue to whine about it as if it makes a difference.

mercedes just need to stop whining and build a better car they've had enough advantage in the 7 years the rules didn't change and LH looked better than he was

 

[blekenbleu]

F1 = NASCARE without fenders

 

[Terry Rock]

It is ironic seeing the performance loss of Mercedes...given the lengths the rules were changed to slow them down.
Cutting away of the rear floor to reduce downforce.... banning 'party modes' (which at the end of the day were legal ways of simply maximum extraction from the powerplant), banning DAS, etc...
It was all done to great effect but it resulted in another team becoming so dominant as to be almost a full second a lap faster than all other previous top contenders.
I don't think it had the overall or exact result the FIA intended.

 

[blekenbleu]

FIA amends Austrian results hours later​

Hamilton, Sainz, Gasly lose positions and points for track limit infringements
IMO, rules which can be neither promptly nor consistently enforced serve mainly to provide petty beauracrats some illusion of importance.

 

[blekenbleu]

Sprint weekend in Belgium
IMO, poor judgement to curtail practice at a track with terrible safety history.
Of places to compromise "for the show", Spa ranks near the bottom.
Some teams may have deferred introducing upgrades at hard-to-pass Hungary;
RB seemingly made the right call on that, as well.