FIA Rulles are Rulles.

[Antony Snook]

I for one am happy with Max winning the tittle. The problem is the FIA let teams and drivers walk over them. Becuse they think the rulles are a democratic process. All the teams have a rule book and person who's job it is to interprit those rulles. A decision has to made by Massi and verry quicly there is no time to aply logic or rational reasoning. So the rules work in favor of some and not others. But that is how it goes. You cant let teams or drivers influence a desicion becuse all they car about it themselves or their friends, and what is best for the team. We cant stop the race and have a democratic vote. If it upsets Lewis or Toto then so be it grow up and stop wineing like babies and take it. After all we are supposed to civilized adults. Or we need to learn that. When a teams comes in they know the rulles they know the game. You cant modify to what soutes your team. That is called cheating.

 

[Terry Rock]

Gathers, popcorn....
Grabs a stiff drink.
Here goes......

 

[Antony Snook]

Gathers, popcorn....
Grabs a stiff drink.
Here goes......

If you had one more lap of pace car Lewis would win. Look at the stats he was of all season compared to Max. So this was good as it put the contenders together in a 1 lap sprint. Plus the 3 cars a lap down Vettel, Stoll and Mazapin where of pace so they where not getting points. I cant have popcorn any way. My doctor says its bad for my colestoroll with butter, and i cant tolerate it dry.

 

[RasmusP]

Is rules written "rulles" in Canada?

About what happened:
If you simulate Max being in Lewis position, I'm not sure Red Bull wouldn't have gone for fresh tyres, sacrificing the position to have the better tyre.
Sure, it's a difficult track to overtake but imo Mercedes played it dead logical without taking risks 2x and lost out.
That stuff happens.

Of course it was super unlucky for Lewis but what would've happened if there would've been 3 laps at the end?
Max still getting to win!

And if the race would've ended behind the safety, red bulls gambling, checo's amazing blockage and Max' aggressive style would've meant absolutely nothing.

I personally would've liked a red flag the best.
Give them both fresh tyres and let them fight for 3 laps.

But the race director was told not to go for red flags if not really necessary after we got quite a few of them throughout the last seasons.


However letting the lapped cars go through, but only some of them and not everyone and only doing so after some back and forth..
That opened the door for criticism!

 

[Terry Rock]

If you had one more lap of pace car Lewis would win. Look at the stats he was of all season compared to Max. So this was good as it put the contenders together in a 1 lap sprint. Plus the 3 cars a lap down Vettel, Stoll and Mazapin where of pace so they where not getting points. I cant have popcorn any way. My doctor says its bad for my colestoroll with butter, and i cant tolerate it dry.

Oh!... the popcorn isn't for you.
It' is for me.
Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

 

[Gevatter]

Fight, peasants!

 

[Antony Snook]

The best solution will be what NASCAR did when faced with the same issue. Because they have a tendency to crash in the closing 5 laps. As the cars are super loose and fast at that stage due to grip. They had a overtime rule that says you get a green flag then white (1 to go) then checkered. Making it longer than the advertised distance eg Daytona 500 is 500 miles give or take long.
Problem is there is no refueling allowed in F1 meaning teams cant accommodate the fuel needed to finish. As a driver you pretty much burn fuel to the stated distance of the event. Just don't do like Seb and run it dry so you cant get a fuel sample for FIA. You just make shore tank is small forcing a fuel stop around at least mid way. But fuel tanks have chainbers spliting it into sections so the fuel dose not splosh around as the car moues around track. And some Genius will make a secret chainber or find a place to hide fuel.

 

[Jim Layee]

If you had one more lap of pace car Lewis would win. Look at the stats he was of all season compared to Max. So this was good as it put the contenders together in a 1 lap sprint. Plus the 3 cars a lap down Vettel, Stoll and Mazapin where of pace so they where not getting points. I cant have popcorn any way. My doctor says its bad for my colestoroll with butter, and i cant tolerate it dry.

Keep adding ' if's ' until you get the result you want.

 

[Antony Snook]

Maybe you should pause the event with a red flag. And have fans in atendance and at home text to vote for what action to take.
And the votes are in and Lewis Hamillton is at 70% and Max is at 90% for the world championship.

 

[Antony Snook]

Is rules written "rulles" in Canada?

About what happened:
If you simulate Max being in Lewis position, I'm not sure Red Bull wouldn't have gone for fresh tyres, sacrificing the position to have the better tyre.
Sure, it's a difficult track to overtake but imo Mercedes played it dead logical without taking risks 2x and lost out.
That stuff happens.

Of course it was super unlucky for Lewis but what would've happened if there would've been 3 laps at the end?
Max still getting to win!

And if the race would've ended behind the safety, red bulls gambling, checo's amazing blockage and Max' aggressive style would've meant absolutely nothing.

I personally would've liked a red flag the best.
Give them both fresh tyres and let them fight for 3 laps.

But the race director was told not to go for red flags if not really necessary after we got quite a few of them throughout the last seasons.


However letting the lapped cars go through, but only some of them and not everyone and only doing so after some back and forth..
That opened the door for criticism!

The cars are fueled for the 200 mile distance (rounded of to the nearest lap) So making the race longer would have cars running out of fuel. As a driver you burn as much fuel as posable to last the given distance.

 

[BillyBobSenna]

For whatever reason, Masi made a decision to make up rules at the end of the last race that gave Max a very good chance of winning even though Lewis had the field covered all day. Definitely a black eye for F1 regardless of who you are rooting for.

 

[bi11y]

Do you think maybe Masi is a scapegoat and someone else phoned in the crazy call, is it even possible someone in his position (even with so much less experience than Charlie Whiting) would ever just make it up like that?

It just makes no sense to let 5 cars and not the other 3 cars?

RIC and STR got screwed by dropping position for new tyres, while Max, Gas and Tsu all were allowed to use their new tyres and all gained positions on the last lap...

 

[Terry Rock]

There wasn't really a need to stop the race.
It could and should have continued in the exact order they were in at Nicolas' crash.
The part that is absolutely 'galling' for most F1 fans, (myself included) is Masi's manipulation of the title.
This was not just another race. This was the WDC title decider.
No cars should have been allowed through, if the safety-car rules could not be implemented to allow the race to finish under green flag conditions.
Had Max...who was now closer and on new 'softs' sailed past those cars to win it all, nobody would have complained.
Either man was worthy of the title.
Erasing an eleven second deficit and then putting the benefactor of that directly behind the leader on forty-plus lap hard tires, was manipulating the outcome.

 

[RasmusP]

There wasn't really a need to stop the race.
It could and should have continued in the exact order they were in at Nicolas' crash.
The part that is absolutely 'galling' for most F1 fans, (myself included) is Masi's manipulation of the title.
This was not just another race. This was the WDC title decider.
No cars should have been allowed through, if the safety-car rules could not be implemented to allow the race to finish under green flag conditions.
Had Max...who was now closer and on new 'softs' sailed past those cars to win it all, nobody would have complained.
Either man was worthy of the title.
Erasing an eleven second deficit and then putting the benefactor of that directly behind the leader on forty-plus lap hard tires, was manipulating the outcome.

Little addition:
From rules and past scenarios, the issue wasn't letting these cars through. It was not letting everyone through.
For some reason they didn't allow everyone when there was enough time to do it and when the pressure to allow it became too strong, there wasn't enough time to get it done correctly anymore.

But yeah, then letting SOME through is illogical.

And I agree, it would've been way better to see Max pushing past the blue flags, getting behind Lewis probably by T1 but with quite some gap and then squeezing everything out of his red bull to get past before the finish line.
Instead of quite causally flying past within sector 1...

 

[Antony Snook]

Little addition:
From rules and past scenarios, the issue wasn't letting these cars through. It was not letting everyone through.
For some reason they didn't allow everyone when there was enough time to do it and when the pressure to allow it became too strong, there wasn't enough time to get it done correctly anymore.

But yeah, then letting SOME through is illogical.

And I agree, it would've been way better to see Max pushing past the blue flags, getting behind Lewis probably by T1 but with quite some gap and then squeezing everything out of his red bull to get past before the finish line.
Instead of quite causally flying past within sector 1...

The cars that could get through where Vettel, Stroll and Mazapin. None of whome where on race pace. Aston Martin probably had cars on low power to save engine to get it home. And Mazapin is just inexpirenced and slow because hes driving a car with airo problems. He and Mick may improve in time but may not. Has has put all resorces to the new airo so they may be a key player with most wind tunell time. A advantage of being worst team.

 

[Antony Snook]

Michale Massi is a referee that is a tough job in any sport. Like my Grandma said there can only be one winner. Sometimes the rule can hurt a team and the ref takes the blame. In Soccer and Basketball the ref rotates between games so it non partial to a team if a bad call is made. The problem is Massi and others in the booth are the same each FIA event. Bar one guest person. Its a tough job to do and you cant rotate the people in the booth it would cause commotion. But anyone in business knows a bunch of bad calls and you can loose the job. You will never please all 10 teams. its not possible.

 

[BillyBobSenna]

Michale Massi is a referee that is a tough job in any sport. Like my Grandma said there can only be one winner. Sometimes the rule can hurt a team and the ref takes the blame. In Soccer and Basketball the ref rotates between games so it non partial to a team if a bad call is made. The problem is Massi and others in the booth are the same each FIA event. Bar one guest person. Its a tough job to do and you cant rotate the people in the booth it would cause commotion. But anyone in business knows a bunch of bad calls and you can loose the job. You will never please all 10 teams. its not possible.

I don't think the comparison of Massi's actions at the last race can be compared to the split-second decisions made in Soccer and Basketball. Massi created new rules as opposed to just judging if a driver broke the rules or not.

 

[bi11y]

The race director and or stewards make up new rules almost every weekend regarding track limits so we shouldn't be surprised.

The sporting regulations are clear that the white lines are track, the kerbs are not track... and yet the broadcasters show some video of the safety car explaining that they are allowed to break the official rules.

However, it is a considerably different situation with so much at stake. The detrimental treatment of RIC, STR and MSC was incredibly unfair and is the problem for me.

In my opinion:
The accident causing the safety car changed Max's chances of beating Hamilton from 1% to 90% (if there was a restart).
The crazy new rules made it 99% - I just didn't see the need for it, Max was going to get blue flags and pass back markers by turn 5 and would have passed Hamilton on one of the back straights anyway.

There were only 3 cars not allowed to pass, which would have taken extra 5 or 10 seconds and made no difference.... whether they should have done another lap after the release not too big a problem as it affects drivers equally.

The F1 punditry is publishing click bait about opinions about Masi is basically trial by social media and character assassination. I think it's disgusting and just let the guy live with it.

Masi stuffed up, but I think someone phoned in the order but we will never know. The stuff up didn't materially change the result at the front, just made the show better for Max fans and new fans and for the media.

 

[bi11y]

Interesting article by Hulkenberg has just been posted...

I think he has a pretty good take, seem honest and sensible and acknowledges positive and negative points. I made a joke to a friend before that I bet Liberty Media wins because I am not a massive fan of either title contender...

This quote from the hulk article resonates :

"The peculiarity in this case was that there perhaps has never been a rule interpretation by race control in F1 that had such an enormous influence on the outcome of the drivers’ world championship. Something that definitely sticks in your mind is the enormous global media presence of the racing series, which was certainly the big winner beside Max Verstappen."

It's all about entertainment: how F1 is reinventing itself – Hulk Report #2

The 2021 F1 season ended with a real bang. Rarely there has been such a media response after a race, with sports fans around the world discussing the controversial, historic final round in Abu Dhabi.

www.linkedin.com

 

[muzikant]

what I've said a lot the Fia didn't make the rules consistent every race. Max is actually even more disadvantaged which allowed merc to come back in the championship. karma is a bitch!! anyway Max deserved it he was the best in 2021