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FFB buggy after patch 2.0 (possibly went weird in patch 1.4). Here is a temporary solution:

Discussion in 'Project CARS' started by bmanic, Jul 2, 2015.

  1. Spent 8 hours today "fixing" the broken FFB system. Here are the results for Logitech DFGT (possibly G25 / G27) and Thrustmaster Tx 458 (possibly T500 and T300 too).



    Hope it helps somebody.

    mod-edit: please add the relevant content here in your post
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
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  2. I know the FFB is way too strong now, but I am using the same settings I had before but just lowered the master scale for each car to between 10- 14 that takes all the clipping away for me and actually gives a nice feel.

    Still don't agree the centering forces have been lowered in the latest patch though.

    I can't believe after all this time we are still pissing around sorting FFB it is absolutely ridiculous and just shows how complicated, convoluted and downright crap the system that has been implemented in PCARS.

    Although I am quite happy and confident I can get a decent feel. Considering it is fundamental to a sim when using a wheel it has been overlooked, misunderstood and a complete balls by SMS.
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  3. What "centering forces" are you talking about? There are no hidden forces. It all comes from the tires and goes through a translation/modification of the steering rack. You can set the forces to 100% linear if you want and then you get pure tire forces through the rack.

    Wish more people would actually take the time to understand the FFB system and how it works in pCars instead of spreading misinformation. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the FFB in itself.. the problem lies in the convoluted system they devised, for our benefit, and the fact that they themselves (the developers) never put proper effort in neither explaining the system nor implementing good default settings for all the wheels.

    .. but that still doesn't change the underlying awesome FFB (at least in my opinion) that is possible due to the tire model.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: The FFB itself is brilliant. It's the best FFB ever created in any simulator in my opinion.. and I've played them all. Literally played them all (yeah, even rF2 now that I've tried the demo). You may have a different opinion but hey, that's life.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Whoa there chief, cool your jets.

    Controls – All platforms
    * Adjustments made to the gears system, to prevent gears being skipped under certain conditions. This addresses an issue where gears would at times jump straight down to 1st, potentially causing engine blowouts.
    * Steering wheels – reduced the centering rate of the steering spring. This improves the feel of steering wheels at very low speeds.
    * Added support for the use of all active controllers for menu input. You can for example now use a steering wheel to race, and a gamepad to control the menus and photo mode.
    * Gear shifters – when using an H-shifter on a car that has a sequential gearbox, the gearbox will now switch through the gears until the gear selected on the H-shifter is reached.
    * Fixed an issue in Force Feedback calibration that would prevent a player from setting "Soft Clipping (Half Input)" back to 0 after modifying it from the original value.

    Like I said I have a good feeling in PCars, it is second only to RF2 in my humble, no knowledge and no feel for the FFB opinion.

    The point I was making that we should not be after all this time having to still mess around with all these settings without only the exalted few (yourself) understanding them.
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  5. Keith Dixon

    Keith Dixon
    Premium Member

    I'm running the settings in Jack spades thread on my G27, the only change I made was to adjust bleed which I set at 0.05 and I have tire force at 7, to me that's just what I'm looking for, testing around Oulton I can feel every small bump, theres no clipping the wheel is light on the straights and gives me just the right amount of force through the turns, I'm not into heavy arsed FFB so this gives me exactly what I'm looking for and is probably the best FFB I've come across imo
  6. Bez

    All the gear, no idea... Premium Member

    have they fixed the ffb problems for direct drive wheels, before this patch it tries to snap your fingers/wrists when the centering spring comes on hard when entering the menus?
  7. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    totally agree laz...
    pathetic sms.
    Still messing with ffb, Frustrating isnt the word at the moment!

    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. I like the FFB after the second patch, can feel more now and easier to catch the car
    However, f.e. on the nordschleife with the RUF GT3, the jump in the last sector, i cannot take it without losing the car, possibly rather a setup thing than FFB related.. just driving the default setting
  9. I tried bmanics fix (thank you bmanic) and it was much better than the set up I had before but now when I go to any menu, any setting that is highlighted or I mouse over just randomly goes up or down like crazy. Right now I am sick of wasting time on this steaming pile of rubbish.
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  10. Guys leave this game! Pcars 2 will be better and Mr. Ian will be making pCars 3 soon!!!!
    • Haha Haha x 4
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  11. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright
    I'm just here for the snacks

    Make sure your wheel is centered. If it's turned either direction the game takes it as a cursor command and moves the selection up or down. If your wheel is centered this won't happen (I find this a bit frustrating).
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  12. Went and done a little bit of gardening, calmed down now :). @Brandon Wright, Thank you, that had not occurred to me at all. @Quarra933, I heard that , not only will Pcars 2 make you better looking than you already are but you spouse too and Pcars 3 will come with a free hoverboard. Unfortunately, the FFB is unlikely to be fixed until about Pcars 6.
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  13. The steering spring entry was written mainly for consoles where the wheel/driver works in a different way (afaik). On PC it is only enabled in the main menus and while standing completely still in some cars (not all). If you have a logitech wheel you can completely kill the spring and damper forces from the logitech control panel.

    I'm trying to dispel myths and misinformation here. The reason for this is because it is a lot easier to COMMUNICATE if we are all using the same terminology. A lot of people complained that some magical horrible steering spring was suddenly enabled in patch 1.4 / 2.0 when in fact all of the weirdness is created due to a bug in the FFB system that broke the Tire Force value and all the anti-clipping measures (all the nonlinear functions like Relative Adjust and Soft Clip). Hence the sudden extremely strong forces.

    I understand that people use whatever words they can find to describe their feeling but because we know the exact issue (on PC at least) being clipping we should be using that as the terminology simply because it helps troubleshooting and finding temporary workarounds.

    Besides all this, I do agree with you and it's extremely frustrating that it is taking so long for SMS to sort these issues out. I've been lobbying for clear FFB presets and various other solutions since the day the new complex FFB system was introduced (it used to be only accessible through .xml file editing.. they added all the controls to the GUI at the very last moment before release, which probably explains all the issues).
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  14. Are all these FFB issues specific to Logitech wheels?

    I use a CSW v2 and it feels quite good. I started on day one with jacks files, removed them before 1.4, now on 2.0 still no mod files... But I've never reset my profile.

    If I reset my profile will everything go tits up?
  15. No problems here either with the go live release or after any updates, with or without Jack's tweaks. I've spent time tweaking because I could and was curious but I really didn't need to. With that said, I haven't been playing much lately though (rFactor 2, R3E, and Dirt Rally consuming my free time) Thrustmaster TX
  16. Consider moving (instead of deleting) your current default.sav and let us know how it goes?

    FWIW, in the tests I've done, nothing untoward has happened with the FFB on my G27 -- other than having to use TF 40 instead of TF 80 (with a default FFB of 100) on > patch 1.3.
  17. Soft Clipping and Relative Adjust are however confirmed "broken".. that is they do not work as they should. So if you are using either of those then simply lowering the main TF does not give you the same FFB you had before patch 1.4. Don't know if this is a good or bad thing though.. I'm quite enjoying what I have at the moment but there's this nagging feeling that I had better FFB before the patches. One thing is certain, I had a lot more control over how I wanted the FFB to be limited which made it a lot easier to dial in and it stayed a lot more consistent from one car to another.
  18. :O_o:
  19. xnorb

    Premium Member

    My understanding is still that the FFB should be governed by the physics simulation.
    It should give me the same feeling i'd get when driving that particular car myself in real life.

    I get it that people want to customize that to adjust it to their liking, but either the sim is capable of giving me the real thing by correct physics, or not.
    And when "broken FFB system" needs fixing, then i'm sorry, but i can't see how it's the best FFB out there???

    There's also no "default" setting in my books.
    Either the simulation is correct, or it isn't.

    So, what's now true?
  20. Andy Jackson

    Andy Jackson
    Sponsored by BRUT Premium Member

    The FFB is merely acceptable for a racing game. It has always been like that in my subjective opinion. All the way through the builds. Lets hope they can unravel this horrible mess. As for the myriad of over complicated FFB adjustments, well they are just not wanted or needed. Are they present on the console versions? I can hardly see console users messing for hour after hour dialling in some sort of usable FFB.

    I really do hope they can sort this out to an acceptable degree with presets.
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