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FFB and Steering wheel settings for GTL

Discussion in 'GT Legends' started by Knut Omdal Tveito, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Knut Omdal Tveito

    Knut Omdal Tveito
    Premium Member

    Steering wheel maximum rotation and wheel lock
    When it comes to steering wheel rotation and wheel lock (in-game car setting) it is important to remember that it is the ratio between these two that is important. If you use 400/15 or 800/30 it will feel exactly the same (because the ratio is the same), the only difference is that you can turn the wheel further for the latter case. On the other hand 400/30 and 800/30 will be very different and the first setting will be much more responsive (car wheel turns twice as much for a given steering wheel rotation).

    The definition of the steering ratio is the following
    SR=(steering wheel rotation, lock to lock) / (car wheel rotation, lock to lock)

    For GTL, you can then calculate the steering ratio as follows:
    SR=(steering wheel maximum rotation) / (2*lock)

    Some examples of real cars (quick google, some of them seems a little fishy):
    ..................................SR ..........(sw max/lock)
    2012 VW Golf ............15.6
    BMW E46 M3: ...........15.4
    Subaru Sti: ................15.2 ..........(972/31.5)
    Caterham: ..................10.5 .........(800/38)
    Radical: .....................10.5 .........(800/38)
    mk1 Ford Cortina ........16.4
    65 Corvette .................17.0
    66 Mustang ................16.0 (Non-power steering: 19.9) (Shelby,Boss etc is 16)
    66 Falcon ...................16.0 (Non-power steering: 22)
    Porsche 914 ...............17.8
    57 Ferrari 250 .............20.0

    I usually have 800 degrees maximum rotation (2.2 turns lock to lock) and a ratio of 14-16 (25-30 degrees lock in-game).

    FFB settings
    A guide for customizing the FFB settings can be found here. I use the FFB settings of Warren Dawes:
    Just copy the posted settings and overwrite the corresponding section in this file (be sure to make a backup first):
    GTL/Userdata/"PlayerName"/ "PlayerName".plr

    Logitech Profiler
    For the settings in Logitech Profiler I have the following settings:
    0% Damping
    0% Spring
    0% Centering spring (deactivated)
    As I understand, these effects are not linked to the physics simulation and are instead created by the logitech software. Therefore, I remove them completely.


    FFB strength
    If you set the strength too high you will loose a lot of detail in the feedback because the sim is asking for more torque than your steering wheel can provide.

    For instance if you have a steering arm force like this when going through a corner:
    [​IMG]
    If you set the strength too high you will reach the limit of your steering wheel (black line in picture below) very early and after that the force will be constant and equal to the limit of your wheel. Thus you will not be able to detect the variation of the feedback force that is actually occuring:​
    [​IMG]
    Now if you decrease the strength setting you will not reach the limit and you will get all the feedback through the wheel:​
    [​IMG]
    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    To find a good setting, I usually run some tests on a bumpy circuit with different settings from 50-100% until I find a setting that is both strong enough and detailed enough.


    If you have anymore information/suggestions please post it in this thread:)
     
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  2. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith
    Premium Member

    Question? I noticed in the plr file for Stu that the FFB Device Type is" 5" while it is "4" for Warren but the devices only number to 3. Does it matter if I choose "1" for wheel for device type?

    Question? In the Logitec Profiler what setting is good for the "Overall Effects Strenght". Mind now is at 105%.

    I am tweaking my setup because it had gotten scrabbled , this info has helped.
     
  3. 1-3 are generic profiles for the various FFB device types, namely gamepad, joystick, and wheel. 4+ are profiles for 'named' devices with FFB setups designed specifically for them, such as the G25. Since you are tweaking all of the FFB settings anyway it does not matter what number you have for this setting. I have a G27 and the device type is set to 'wheel'. It's the same

    Personal preference, for the most part. You'll see people swearing that it feels better when set at 101%, or 99%, or whatever else. I just set mine to 100% and tweak the strength of the FFB from within the sims themselves until it feels comfortable for me... not someone else.
     
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  4. Roland

    Roland
    Premium Member

    Maybe some clever admin can quote Warren's posts and/or ffb guide into this thread and then make it a sticky ??
     
  5. Ross McGregor

    Ross McGregor
    Premium Member

    I started off in GTL using 270 rotation and whatever was the default value for lock. (didn't understand the settings initially) Last year, i mostly used 450-500 degrees with 16 lock, but now i'm firmly sticking with 360 rotation and 16 for lock.

    I use a DFGT and in Logitech Profiler i have effects strength at 100%, damper/spring/centering spring at 0% (centering spring enabled- as if that matters!) and i'm sticking to 360 rotation for every sim these days.
     
  6. Does anyone actually know the original argument for having the centring spring enabled? In all my time of using wheels I have never, ever noticed any difference whatsoever having it turned on and set to 0. Looks like some kind of mass placebo affect to me.
     
  7. In GTL I have pretty much always used 900 degrees.(I have also been using warren's settings for a long time) Only for a short time after getting my G25 did I use 720 for specific games. With GTL I used to leave the lock setting in the garage alone until only recently having around 20 suggested.. And that seemed fine and idk if I really felt a difference so I went and took it too far by trying out 34.5.. and now have been using 34.5 since then. I have a hard time noticing changes and it is even worse if there is any pause between them so I have no idea if this steering combination is any good or not.

    This may be like that time where I tried setting the power/coast to 100% in that I may just start not giving a **** and leaving it default after not too long.

    I do not know why I use 900/34.5; it must be a penis thing. Bram was ranting about penis things not too long ago, you should ask him for more information if you would like to know. :p
     
  8. Oops, forgot to post my preference. I use 540° rotation for most sims, certainly all of SimBin's at least. Up until recently I was using 22-23 for the lock setting. However, since starting with GTL I have dropped that down to 18 and seem to get on much better with it. The only drawback is that I somtimes have to spin my way out of the garage as there's not enough lock to just drive out normally at some tracks. :p
     
  9. It seems that this thread started something very useful for many drivers. For my own settings and driving it have helpt me a lot to understand more about how is works.

    Next step is maybe to clear out how to set up the car to have a good grip and behavior on the track.
     
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  10. Roland

    Roland
    Premium Member

    As you may know Toby Davis wrote a few interesting articles on that subject on the old RDsite's front page. Not specific to GTL, but informative nonetheless. They can now be found here:
    Part 1: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/the-art-of-setup-1-suspension.42854/
    Part 2: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/the-art-of-setup-2-tyres-and-downforce.42871/
    Part 3: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/the-art-of-setup-3-seating-and-steering.42895/

    Plus this one as a bonus :):

    http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/how-can-i-improve-my-laptime.42951/
     
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  11. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    I know some people here have used my FFB Profile which I made for the G25 Wheel.

    I have since swapped to using a Fanatec GT3 v2 wheel with the same FFB profile. However, I have never found this profile to work as well with the GT3, it feels duller and heavier, less sensitive and lacking feedback. It was also too heavy for me, I prefer lighter FFB overall but still able to feel some feedback from the Sim.

    So, I recently went back to the original "Guidelines" and tried to improve it to my taste. Although still not as good as the G25 feel, I think it is an improvement for me.

    So, in case anyone else is interested, here is my latest version using the GT3 v2.


    FFB Device Type="4" // Type of FFB controller: 0=none 1=wheel, 2=stick/custom, 3=rumble pad.
    FFB Effects Level="1" // Number of FFB effects to use: 0=No Effects, 1=Low, 2=Medium, 3=High, 4=Full, 5=Custom.
    FFB Gain="1.00000" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to 1.0.
    FFB Throttle FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Throttle effects on throttle axis, 1 = throttle effects on steering axis.
    FFB Brake FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 = brake effects on steering axis.
    FFB steer vibe freq mult="0.07000" // Controls frequency of steering vibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering vibration.
    FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.03500" // Magnitude of steering vibration at 0mph (reference point).
    FFB steer vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero magnitude).
    FFB steer vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB steer force average weight="0.60000" // How much weight is given to new steering force calculations each frame (0.01 - 1.0). Lower values will smooth out the steering force, but will also add latency.
    FFB steer force exponent="1.00000" // Steering force output "sensitivity". Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity.
    FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).
    FFB steer force output max="1.70000" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
    FFB steer force grip weight="0.45000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
    FFB steer force grip factor="0.80000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6. How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.
    FFB steer update thresh="0.0001500000" // Amount of change required to update steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering force updated more frequently = lower frame rate.
    FFB steer friction coefficient="0.00000" // Coefficient to use for steering friction. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
    FFB steer friction saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use for steering friction. Range: 0 - 1.0
    FFB steer damper coefficient="-0.50000" // Coefficient to use for steering damper. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
    FFB steer damper saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use for steering damper. Range: 0 - 1.0
    FFB throttle vibe freq mult="0.40000" // Scales actual engine frequency to force FFB vibration frequency. Suggested range: 0.10 to 0.50
    FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.09000" // Magnitude of engine vibration at 0rpm (reference point).
    FFB throttle vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude).
    FFB throttle vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB throttle vibe update thresh="0.02000" // Amount of change required to update throttle vibe (0.0 - 1.0)
    FFB brake vibe freq mult="0.90000" // Scales actual brake rotational frequency to force feedback vibration frequency.
    FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.09000" // Magnitude of brake vibration at 0mph (reference point).
    FFB brake vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB brake vibe zero magnitude).
    FFB brake vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB brake vibe update thresh="0.02000" // Amount of change required to update brake vibe (0.0 to 1.0)
    FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.25000" // How strong the rumble strip rumble is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect.
    FFB rumble strip freq mult="0.50000" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier 1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev.
    FFB rumble strip wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB rumble strip pull factor="-0.70000" // How strongly wheel pulls right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5.
    FFB rumble strip update thresh="0.07500" // Amount of change required to update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0)
    FFB jolt magnitude="1.30000" // How strong jolts from other cars (or walls) are. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.
     
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  12. Simon Bacon

    Simon Bacon
    Premium Member

    Been thinking I've getting one Warren, as my G25 is starting to feel very old. What's the verdict so far?
     
  13. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    Mixed actually.
    I also have the Fanatec CSP Pedals and I love those, better than the G25's.
    I still prefer the ol' G25 Wheel though, it had great FFB feel and felt lighter which I prefer.
    FFB from the GT3 isn't as "responsive", sorta feels a bit dampened to me. It's starting to feel better with the new FFB Profile but if I had to choose now, I'd still prefer my old G25, but it slowly died after many years of loyal service. Haven't tried the G27 to see if it feels the same as the G25. :unsure:
    The GT3 wheel has many other nice features though, solid and sturdy, the fabric is great with your hands, and it has some useful "adjust on the run" settings. Much easier to adjust FFB and other settings without having to exit the Sim.

    I believe that Fanatec have / are releasing new Firmware and Drivers for these wheels with the aim of adding new features and possibly improving the FFB feel. Haven't tried any yet, but some people are reporting improvements.

    If your G25 is still working reliably, it is a hard wheel to replace. ;)
     
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  14. It has a belt driven FFB, right? I think I'd prefer that, the G27 gear FFB is kinda rough and notchy at times.

    I'd also love the on the fly rotation changes, and the power button.
     
  15. Simon Bacon

    Simon Bacon
    Premium Member

    Thanks Warren, had a few 'scares' with the G25 of late, but nothing re-calibrating didn't solve. 4 years old and still going:thumbsup:
     
  16. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    Yep, that Power Button is very good, forgot to mention that. :thumbsup:
     
  17. With my Fanatec CSR, this is just my opinion not shared by anyone else, but it kinda makes a car like the Falcon feel like a wet noodle. :/

    I think I will keep using your old profile for now, or at least I think I am still using your old one. I might have mucked it up but I am pretty sure it is the same.
     
  18. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    I'm not surprised Ian, I think the Fanatec CSR has a very different FFB system to the GT3.
    The best way to get it how you like for any wheel is to follow the guidelines in the original tutorial.
    If you don't have it, here is a copy:
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/52407178/FFB Guide for G25.rar

    It explains what each setting does, and following those guidelines, you can tune it to your own wheel and taste in about an hour or two. Well worth the time spent. :thumbsup:
     

  19. Hi Warren,

    Would it be too much trouble to ask if you could post your G25 plr file? I would like to compare it with this one too see what specific values you have changed.

    Cheers,
    Alucard
     
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