F1 End of Season Report: Rate the Grid - Max Verstappen

Well, one thing is for sure, at least. He has quite a few haters.

He's not perfect. He has made mistakes. He undeniably pushes the rules to the limits at certain times (think track limits, moves in the braking areas etc). I have criticized him over some of his maneuvers in the past.

However there is no disputing one thing. He is box office. He has star quality. F1 needs him just like it needs Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel. Without pure thoroughbred racers the sport will die.
 
Usually the famous driver father is better than the son ( Graham Hill etc ) but I think even Jos would admit that his son is a 1000 times better than he ever was :p

Damon Hill gets a fair amount of stick (maybe for being lucky to be in the best car for a good part of his career), but I would defend him by saying that was pretty handy on his day and he definitely had Michael Schumacher worried on a few occasions. Having said that, I know what you're saying and there's no doubt that his dad was an exceptional talent in the days when a mistake could cost you your life.

As far as Jos goes, I'm sure that would be more than happy to accept that his son has more talent than he ever had :)
 
It's interesting that someone says at 20 years old he will get better over the years. In F1 and Motorsport in general if Max suddenly found himself in a Alonso / McLaren situation he'd not improve results wise and would like Alonso go backwards.......what Max needs is to be in a competitive car, the Red Bull is competitive but only with the other Red Bull and possibly at the right tracks the Ferrari.
I'm not sure Max has 'haters' i think some people support drivers for some odd reason so if you support Lewis you are against Max etc etc...
 
It's interesting that someone says at 20 years old he will get better over the years. In F1 and Motorsport in general if Max suddenly found himself in a Alonso / McLaren situation he'd not improve results wise and would like Alonso go backwards.......what Max needs is to be in a competitive car, the Red Bull is competitive but only with the other Red Bull and possibly at the right tracks the Ferrari.

Yeah, I can't argue that - he obviously needs to be in a competitive car. It's just that at 20 years old he has many seasons of opportunity to fight for the title and I would imagine plenty of team owners ready to sign him up given the chance. He just needs to be in the right car at the right time by taking the right career options and hoping luck is on his side!
 
Imo, rating "10" for any driver this year is a bit much; nobody has been perfect.
MV - One of the fastest drivers and has earned respect from the best. The crash into DR showed that there's room for improvement.

7.5-8.0 / 10 -- a very respectable score.
 
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He has done nothing but crashing or retiring before the engine upgrade. So to me he just has been good to watch but nothing that Ricciardo hasn't already done! In fact if the engine upgrade was given to Daniel( the only fair decision) Mad Max would never accumulated any more points for Redbull. The team just lost to Ferrari exactly for that reason...denying the best driver the competitive engine.
 
Phenomenal talent. I've been watching F1 since 1978 and the only two rookie drivers that have impressed me as much are Senna and Schumacher. He's in that league. To think he's only 20 is mind-boggling. If all goes well (i.e. if he gets the right car), he should win many world championships. Despite an unreliable car, he managed to win twice. For my money, Red Bull has the best pair of drivers in F1 today.
 
Red Bull have the 2 best drivers as a pair for sure. Someone raised a good point about these upgrades, its nuts that even within teams in the 'same' car the drivers aren't actually in the same car.
Could be an upgrade one doesn't get, or a engine mode or map one can use whilst the other can't, when it's hundredths of a second tiny little details can count.
The drivers are employees and as such if the team wants to test out something then they have to suck it up, but even in 'same' cars we can never really totally judge a drivers performance against his team mate on a race to race basis.
Look at the difference when a driver loses some small bit of aero from the car, look at the difference a down on power Honda engine makes.

The amount of overtakes in F1 which were down to actually one driver having better tyres, or less fuel or DRS or better engine / engine mode.....etc.....
In some sports some people can simply be better, F1 isn't really like that, as for example Lewis in a McLaren Honda would get beaten by Bottas in a Merc, Lewis would not even be close in that scenario for example as Bottas is close in the 'same' car so in one with 80bhp more rational talk would mean he would be way ahead...
We can't rationally say who is the best or better driver... bloody easy to list the best teams in order though....
 
He has done nothing but crashing or retiring before the engine upgrade. So to me he just has been good to watch but nothing that Ricciardo hasn't already done! In fact if the engine upgrade was given to Daniel( the only fair decision) Mad Max would never accumulated any more points for Redbull. The team just lost to Ferrari exactly for that reason...denying the best driver the competitive engine.

The hell are you on about? The engine upgrade was a 0.05 difference, so stop spouting nonsense. Verstappen is clearly better than Ricciardo, outqualifying him 13-7, outracing him 5-2 and was ahead every single time he retired bar Austria.
 
He's made of top level stuff but not as fast as Vettel in terms of all out pace. Singapore and Mexico qualifying confirmed this pretty much. He's also very very good at overtaking but to a fault at times. Still, there's no denying it's a lot of fun to watch when he makes some crazy overtakes stick like in Mexico.

Verstappen is better than Ricciardo, whilst Vettel clearly proved he isn't up to Ricciardo's standard in 2014
 
He has done nothing but crashing or retiring before the engine upgrade. So to me he just has been good to watch but nothing that Ricciardo hasn't already done! In fact if the engine upgrade was given to Daniel( the only fair decision) Mad Max would never accumulated any more points for Redbull. The team just lost to Ferrari exactly for that reason...denying the best driver the competitive engine.

Did you even watch the races? This is just the stupid talk of someone who clearly has no idea of what he is talking about.
 

Max is great, i really like the guy, but some of the stuff Dan brings to the table is amazing, Dan late breaking is class leading IMO, incredible I mean F1 brakes are outstanding and he seems to manage to extract it the best somehow.
He IMO right now is a safer bet for a team manager to get the cars home and not cause too much mischief, don't forget Max has said some silly stuff over the radio over the few years he's been at it...
He is awesome...but lets not let it cloud us too much, he is not making Dan look stupid at all. Either Max or Dan in the Merc could be in with a shot at a WDC and if they were teammates with Bottas would be WDC...
Had Max or Dan been in the Merc the last few seasons agaisnt Nico and Bottas we could be talking about either one of them as a 3 or 4 times WDC....
 
Max is great, i really like the guy, but some of the stuff Dan brings to the table is amazing, Dan late breaking is class leading IMO, incredible I mean F1 brakes are outstanding and he seems to manage to extract it the best somehow.
He IMO right now is a safer bet for a team manager to get the cars home and not cause too much mischief, don't forget Max has said some silly stuff over the radio over the few years he's been at it...
He is awesome...but lets not let it cloud us too much, he is not making Dan look stupid at all. Either Max or Dan in the Merc could be in with a shot at a WDC and if they were teammates with Bottas would be WDC...
Had Max or Dan been in the Merc the last few seasons agaisnt Nico and Bottas we could be talking about either one of them as a 3 or 4 times WDC....

I think this is a really good post @apex11. Your observation about Dan's ability on the brakes is spot on. I don't think there is another driver on the grid with his feel and ability in this area.

I also agree with your final statement that either Dan or Max would probably have been a WDC by now given a Merc and put up against either Nico or Bottas. (all hypothetical of course).

I think they are both potential champions but they have strengths in slightly different areas. My honest view is that Max is ever so slightly quicker on outright pace over a single lap. On the other hand I would say Dan exhibits slightly better racecraft. Max can be hotheaded at times (he is still very young of course). Dan is more measured. Both are capable of producing brilliant overtaking moves.

As I said in an earlier post, they are the best team driver pairing on the grid in my opinion.
 
I think he's pretty much the best driver on the grid right now, winning 2 races in a non Mercedes or Ferrari car pretty incredible.
I just hope and pray he leaves Red Bull. They might have Newey and a good chassis but their engine isn't that great and even if Renault produce something amazing next year, their contract expires for 2019 and there's even the chance that they will end up with Honda. If he will ever be in the best car on the grid, he will win the title, even if his teammate is Lewis or Seb.
I hope he doesn't bury his talent by being in **** cars.
Don't underestimate Honda. Although they haven't show a good pace as of yet, who knows what they can deliver. Fact is, that the Honda engine without the by Merc dominated MGU-H is the fastest engine around. Who knows when they GET there package right... Let's hope Torro Rosso shows a good pace with the engine, and of course good reliability. To continue about Max, he made few mistakes, and taking out your team mate was not the best thing he did, however we should remember that Vettel also did these things. Sometime, this happens. In my opinion, you can be mad, but our 'Big Smile' Ricciardo was a bit too harsh. It's never funny when you get taken out, I know, but let's not forget Verstappen gave him room in Malaysia a year a go. These things happen. With Massa, well.... You could say impatient, but Massa didn't give him room, which is something typically Massa. I give Verstappen 10/10, because wi don't know what he could have achieved without sooo much misfortune. I rate him to be one of the best, clearly better then Vettel. In my opinion, when Merc screws up their chassis, the battle could very likely be Verstappen vs Hamilton, where Sebastian will in a way loose this. Alonso could also be very much involved, but let's see how McLaren adopts the Renault engine. It's clear they have to build a new chassis....
 
Max is great, i really like the guy, but some of the stuff Dan brings to the table is amazing, Dan late breaking is class leading IMO, incredible I mean F1 brakes are outstanding and he seems to manage to extract it the best somehow.
He IMO right now is a safer bet for a team manager to get the cars home and not cause too much mischief, don't forget Max has said some silly stuff over the radio over the few years he's been at it...
He is awesome...but lets not let it cloud us too much, he is not making Dan look stupid at all. Either Max or Dan in the Merc could be in with a shot at a WDC and if they were teammates with Bottas would be WDC...
Had Max or Dan been in the Merc the last few seasons agaisnt Nico and Bottas we could be talking about either one of them as a 3 or 4 times WDC....
IMO, although Dan is a good braker, I mean, the best, I put him more in the category of Rosberg. Dan is a one lap wonder, who is beaten by his team mate on that thing. Although he is a good driver, he is more the one who wins because of misfortune of others, like Rosberg. To back this up, his only win was in a chaotic Baku. Max however, won two times. He is in the books as the last winner of Malaysia, where he has beaten the Merc of Hamilton, on a track where RBR thought they wouldn't have a chance of winning! Mexico, he took every last life out of the engine and drove to an unimaginable Merc like victory, in a Red Bull!! Where was Dan when he could have won. He brings the cars home, yes, but driving carefully doesn't always make you champion. The ones with speed, those are the ones who win a champion, and sadly, Dan doesn't have the incredible speed on the long run. Preserving a car is key when it matters the most. Dan would clearly become a WDC when the championship is in that position, but Max will win when it matters on the speed. I would never want to see Max driving in a car which dominates a season. To see him driving in Merc will destroy Max's magic. Everyone will then say: 'He drove a Merc, no wonder he became WDC.' Let's say, we don't know yet, Max becomes the next WDC in a Red Bull. Everyone will say it's because of his skill, not because of the car. I have to say, I hope he becomes the next WDC, but nothing is sure. It all depends on the first race. IF, Max wins the first race, or is very close on second, then Hamilton with Merc and Ferrari with Seb will have a problem. It was the same in 2010, which we all know what happened ;)
 
I think we are in a luxury position having so many potential world champions next year.... Max, Daniel, Lewis, Sebastian, Fernando. Now they just all need a car with the same peformance! But.. this is not a WC were the best drivers drive each others cars (e.g. like the individual equestrian jumping WC were they ride each others horses) or a class with all indentical cars. F1 is also about being in the best car at a certain time and you have to have some luck with that. Max did not have this luck yet. He is able to make a car better, but... not an engine. And that is what has been missing up till now. I don't know what exactly happened in Mexico, and why he was suddenly so dominant in that race, and the last two races the Renault engine suddenly was under-performing again. But Malaysia (beating Hamilton in a head-to-head fight) and Mexico gave us a good indication what can happen if Max is given a winning car. But... we are scoring drivers for 2017 and I think he had a great year, but also with some mistakes (driving into his teammate and a bit too impatient when overtaking Massa). Being Dutch I see al lot of Max on Dutch TV of course and it is great to see how (mature and humorous) he handles the Dutch press and fans. All in all a solid 9!
 

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