Do You Have This Combo? Behringer Inuke DSP Amplifier & Buttkicker?

[Mr Latte]

BUTTKICKER BOTTOMING / PISTON PANG / THERMAL CUT OFF ?

Working Solution!

Posting this thread to help members that may have issues with the piston bottoming and producing the clack or pang sound, I am specifically looking for people that own the below combinations for either audio or Simvibe tactile usage.

Testing has been conducted to find a solution to this long-term and widespread issue. Drawbacks are found with these units if used with traditional/standard amplifiers due to in part how they operate. If you are interested please share in taking part to confirm if the solution also works for you?

These are the recommended amplifiers:

Behringer Inuke DSP Amplifiers:
DSP 1000
DSP 3000
DSP 6000

Using with:
Buttkicker Mini LFE
Buttkicker Mini LFE SE
Buttkicker Mini Concert
Buttkicker Gamer Shaker/Clamp

 

[Mr Latte]

This is an old thread but other active threads link here. Readers, be aware that 1000 rpm does not equal 10 Hz. One Hertz is defined as one cycle per second. Thus the correct conversion is 1 rpm = 1/60 Hz. So 1000 rpm would actually be about 17 Hz.

Engines can generate different Hz based on the low/high values applied with their settings and the RPM ranges different cars may use.


Please note:

As Simvibe itself does not use "Tone Generation" for the "Speaker Test" and the Hz controls it offers in its settings for the tesing of both CM and EM. These do not work properly at all. Something I confirmed by monitoring the signal output several years ago and to my knowledge nobody before noticed or reported this and to this day it may still be unfixed.

So back then, during my own testing with Simvibe I decided to create an engine setting for Assetto Corsa and using the Porsche 918 car (well-suited car) that indeed did use Simvibes "Tone Generation" operating directly from a sim. With the objective to use this as a method of testing different Hz accurately like a (sinewave generator) by matching the RPM for the specific frequency desired.

1000 RPM = 10Hz
2000 RPM = 20Hz
3000 RPM = 30Hz
4000 RPM = 40Hz
5000 RPM = 50Hz
6000 RPM = 60Hz
7000 RPM = 70Hz
8000 RPM = 80Hz
9000 RPM = 90Hz

I confirmed this was working accurately with this profile and the Porsche 918 car by monitoring the Hz output with the RPM.

Thank You...

It is available from the Simvibe Market Place for Assetto Corsa, Page 7.
Feel free to test if you wish

 

[Jurld]

Yes, I was being kind of pedantic. In an absolute sense, 1000 rpm does not and will never equal 10 Hz. By definition.

The tone of an engine varies of course, depending on how many cylinders the engine has and whether or not it is 2 or 4 cycle. Engine timing and exhaust system tuning will influence what you actually hear to a great extent. But for an 8 cylinder 4 stroke at 1000 rpm the base pulse of the engine exhaust note "should" be about 33 Hz. I'm really curious about how Porsche arrived at the 10 Hz figure.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes, I was being kind of pedantic. In an absolute sense, 1000 rpm does not and will never equal 10 Hz. By definition.

The tone of an engine varies of course, depending on how many cylinders the engine has and whether or not it is 2 or 4 cycle. Engine timing and exhaust system tuning will influence what you actually hear to a great extent. But for an 8 cylinder 4 stroke at 1000 rpm the base pulse of the engine exhaust note "should" be about 33 Hz. I'm really curious about how Porsche arrived at the 10 Hz figure.

Catch yourself on, errr this is about Simvibe not REAL cars.

None of what you say is much relevant to how Simvibe operates, with the controls it has for its engine, effects generation. As for its harmonics mode. The V4-V12 options it offers determine what the fundamental frequency is to be used. Control of this is useful with cars using very different RPM operating ranges.

Simulation in many ways can never replicate the real scenario, what your doing here is a good example. Immersion, however, is all about increasing the player's experiences, often utilising the various senses we have. This does not mean such has to be accurate or that it even can be.

Yet regardless it still can be very much enjoyed or add to the experience when combined with other methods of immersion.

 

[Jurld]

Yeah, whhhhhooooosh, right over my head! And you are totally correct about immersion not necessarily needing accuracy.

 

[CC]

Hey Guys,
Not sure if this is the right place there seems to be quite a few threads regarding these,
just want to ask a few key questions to be sure seems confusing slightly,

I just purchased 4x Buttkicker Mini LFE and a 5.1 sound card,

I want to go and purchase the inuke DSP 1000, everywhere I read seems like the most logical and affordable option giving the best quality,

Regarding this DSP 1000, its only 2 channels amplifier, if using SimVibe in chassis mode,
would you not need a 4 channel amplifier ?

How is the software talking to each Buttkicker if there is 2x mini LFE in 1 channel and 2 in another channel ?

Regards Scott

 

[Mr Latte]

Hey Guys,
Not sure if this is the right place there seems to be quite a few threads regarding these,
just want to ask a few key questions to be sure seems confusing slightly,

I just purchased 4x Buttkicker Mini LFE and a 5.1 sound card,

I want to go and purchase the inuke DSP 1000, everywhere I read seems like the most logical and affordable option giving the best quality,

Regarding this DSP 1000, its only 2 channels amplifier, if using SimVibe in chassis mode,
would you not need a 4 channel amplifier ?

How is the software talking to each Buttkicker if there is 2x mini LFE in 1 channel and 2 in another channel ?

Regards Scott

Hi, Scott,
iNuke DSP 1000 is now replaced by Behringer NX1000D
Yes 2 channel amp, you buy extra amps to power more channels.
Their 4 channel model does not have the DSP features

Things have moved on since this thread, Simhub Shakeit Bass Shaker is the software I would currently recommend and try before spending $90 on Simvibe. It is much easier to use, better visual layout and is not limited in the way Simvibe is. One example is a single soundcard can support upto 8 channels and we can place effects to any channel without the hassle of CM/EM modes.

Search the forums and look in the "General Tactile Discussion" thread plenty to stuff on these forums for tactile.

 

[CC]

Hi, Scott,
iNuke DSP 1000 is now replaced by Behringer NX1000D
Yes 2 channel amp, you buy extra amps to power more channels.
Their 4 channel model does not have the DSP features

Things have moved on since this thread, Simhub Shakeit Bass Shaker is the software I would currently recommend and try before spending $90 on Simvibe. It is much easier to use, better visual layout and is not limited in the way Simvibe is. One example is a single soundcard can support upto 8 channels and we can place effects to any channel without the hassle of CM/EM modes.

Search the forums and look in the "General Tactile Discussion" thread plenty to stuff on these forums for tactile.

Hi Mr Latte,
Yes I own SimHub also,
is it possible to run SimHub in "chassis style mode" ?
just want to experience the glory of all 4 corners of the car simulated and shaking depending on what the car is doing, I see it in my mind the godliness just need to feel it for myself its just so exciting to think about,

I still not got all the equipment here as of yet will take some time to arrive and the amps not purchased but I find some inuke in ukraine so most likely still my best option some hardware hard to source or way too expensive, thx for the reply I will read more into these SimHub settings.

Regards Scott

 

[Mr Latte]

Scott, I am making great progress with my own effects creation and in Simhub testing.
Yes it fully supports positional based effects, for Bumps and G-Forces.

It also easily enables any effect to be sent to any channels you want.

Best to chat about this in the "General Tactile Discussion" thread, or feel free to start your own thread on your own tactile journey.

 

[Spinelli]

I have 4x CS TST429 Platinums, 4x large BKs (2 LFE, 2 Concerts), and 1 medium BK (Advance).

I haven't set these up yet as I'm not quite finished setting up my new Simlabs P1 cockpit but should I sell some of the transducers? I think I may have gone overboard. Is it even possible to mount all 9 on a rig? Is it beneficial? Should I just go with 4 CS Platinums, 1 BK, and sell the rest?

 

[CC]

I have 4x CS TST429 Platinums, 4x large BKs (2 LFE, 2 Concerts), and 1 medium BK (Advance).

I haven't set these up yet as I'm not quite finished setting up my new Simlabs P1 cockpit but should I sell some of the transducers? I think I may have gone overboard. Is it even possible to mount all 9 on a rig? Is it beneficial? Should I just go with 4 CS Platinums, 1 BK, and sell the rest?

I used to have a Throne Buttkicker I got from Rseat used to make the entire floor shake on my Rseat Formula RS2 Cockpit was crazy,
I just bought 4x Mini LFE Buttkicker, and tbh been looking at these to sit the rig on to dampen any effects travelling into the ground, 9 would be amazing if you had a garage or something maybe away from everyone you know,

But like I say these look great or something similar with 9 you would need something to try and isolate the vibrations somewhat.

 

[Mr Latte]

I have 4x CS TST429 Platinums, 4x large BKs (2 LFE, 2 Concerts), and 1 medium BK (Advance).

I haven't set these up yet as I'm not quite finished setting up my new Simlabs P1 cockpit but should I sell some of the transducers? I think I may have gone overboard. Is it even possible to mount all 9 on a rig? Is it beneficial? Should I just go with 4 CS Platinums, 1 BK, and sell the rest?

Firstly I applaud others showing creativity and testing in this field. We all may prefer to do things in different ways or with different approaches.

The best way (for me) to use multiple tactile was to do a Dual Role approach and then to also have "role-based" units used for specific effects or indeed effect layers. Shakeit without a doubt is progressing to be the most customizable and ideal tactile software to use.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Hi, My amp does not have DSP but I am using Equalizer APO and it does the job (I set curve similar to described here in this thread for my Minis and it was nice improvement).

I just added full size LFE to my setup, and to my surprise those units bottom out/pang at certain frequencies/volume too. Has anyone came up with EQ curves for Full size units?

I would also like to hear suggestions on how to come up with my own curve without downloading any SimVibe profiles? Can it be done with online tone generator, and if so, what would be the steps to figure the curve out? Cheers!

 

[Mr Latte]

Good to hear you got some improvements.

Having the DSP on an amp or as additional hardware does not limit it to just one soundcard. I think that's the main drawback of APO. Well, I'm not aware how/if it can work with multiple cards and instances.

You can test your large LFE with different crossovers and increase the volume to discover what effects might be the issue. You can narrow down what frequencies are causing the issue by altering the crossover. It can also be related to the effects being used. A specific effect and setting with a high volume may cause an issue with bottoming.

The large LFE is best being kept with low bass only. Try it at 50Hz then 40Hz and even 30Hz crossovers. You then have the desired effects for this unit work more with the lower Hz. It should be possible to get a scenario the bottoming stops, then you can cut/boost specific Hz if desired. So, in general, you could reduce the frequency range it uses but then push it harder with only that limited range.

Start using Shakeit as it gives much better options for channel control and effects. You can use the LFE to compliment certain effects that operate on other channels or you can use the LFE for specific operation of effects. One solution is to have only higher values for an effect operate on the LFE, (using threshold control) for example, bumps. In this role a large bump goes to the LFE and other tactile, but smaller bumps have little or no effect on the LFE.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

It is possible to use software APO with multiple cards by using "Device Selector" object. The main drawback of software EQ it uses CPU and possibly adds delay, but it works very well, so approaches described in this thread apply to software EQ as well.

Thanks for the hint on crossover, I didn't think filtering higher frequences out will make a difference, but will try that. And yes, I use ShakeIt, it is very good.

 

[Mr Latte]

Let me know how you get on, what ways or effects are you considering using it?
This is probably the most affordable hardware/software specialist alternative. It could be run on a laptop or other PC if needed.

I opted for using an 18 channel interface that is compatible with Android/iPad and PC. So it offers many, many choices in software tools and plugins but can be controlled simply via tablet or midi controllers.

iPad has some very cheap but amazing audio tools.

 

[Spinelli]

I finally have some transducers hooked to do some comparison tests. I'm currently using a CS TST429 Plat and a BK Adv.

1. Am I supposed to set NX3000D to "dual" or "stereo?" It looks like dual allows me to have different settings for each channel while the diagram for stereo makes it look like both channels are combined in to 1 (which makes no sense since it's called "stereo" not "mono").

2. The peak limiter in the Behringer software doesn't seem to do anything. For my BKA, I tried 400 W, 300 W, 100 W, 20 W, and even 0 W and the BKA's volume/power remains identical every time. I also tried similiar with the TST429 (max 150 W) and same thing, the power did not change

3. How do I set my PC and Simvibe to use one transducer for all left side effects and the other transducer for all right side? I tried setting Windows to stereo instead of quadrophonic but that made the BK and CS work simultaneously for the same effects.

4. The BKA in the Simvibe speaker test tone is way lower powered than the TST429. I have the TST's dial less than 1/4 while the BKA's volume dial is almost halfway (12 o'clock) and the TST is still way more powerful during the SimXperience test tone. What's going on? Wiring and everything looks good.

 

[Mr Latte]

Congrats for getting some gear installed....

1.Dual mode lets you apply all controls individually per channel. With Stereo mode it applies controls to both channels.

2. Did you apply an Ohm value setting? (4ohms) See manual as that should then limit the wattage. You still need to use the volume controls as that should then limit what the max output is. Its not a feature I looked deeply into.

3. Dont waste time with Simvibe use Shakeit you will save yourself a lot of frustration and get better effects too.

That testone feature in Simvibe is borked they never ever fixed it. Its only useful to feel if the right channel activates. Also does not output the Hz it appears to show and I know for a fact as I have monitored its output in the past. So its totally useless as a way to test frequencies. Yet plenty of users used it thinking they were configuring their rigs or experiencing different Hz.

4.Ensure the limiter is working with TST @100w and ADV with 400w
The amps crossover section has input and output gains. Check that you have these set at 0 for now. I have found from some sound cards a bit of difference in the L/R output but its not massive. It may even be slight differences with different units (same make/model). You can adjust the input gain and output here, keep the amp volumes around 12-2pm (should be enough) with limiters working some people prefer to keep the amps knobs at 12 and then adust the output gain with the crossover to get the volume they like with their soundcard settings they use.

 

[Spinelli]

Yes

Congrats for getting some gear installed....

Thanks.

I got the limiter working for the CS Plat but it does not seem to work for the BKA. I set them both to 4 ohm and even when the BKA limiter is set to something incredibly low like 5w, it's still just as loud as if I use the limiter at 400w unlike the TST Plat which I can feel/hear the intensity decrease as I lower the limiter.

I haven't touched any knobs/settings in the DSP besides setting the limiters. Everything else is at default.

The TST Plat at 9 o'clock (physical amp gain knob) feels just as strong as the BKA at 1 o'clock. 9 o'clock to 1 o'clock is a big difference. Does that seem right to you?

I'll most likely move to ShakeIt but I just wanted to try SimX first since I had it working well with a Buttkicker Gamer a year ago and wanted to try continuing from there.

 

[Mr Latte]

Try having the BK on the other channel and swap over the wattage limiter. Just curious to see if its only operating on one channel with your amp for some reason? When you set a limiter and with 4ohm go to the profile to save it. The amps dont maintain the 4ohm when it reloads but its set to that as the profile was saved.

Dont fuss too much where the dials are positioned, you should do frequency sweep tests. Searh forums here others done it in the past and you will find previous discussions on it.

 

[Spinelli]

I couldn't get SimX working so I tried the transducers using the Next Level Racing Motion Platform software. It's fairly basic but works pretty good just to quickly test them in game.

Both transducers seem to be working although there's quite a fine line betweem feeling them good and having them and/or the amp clip. It's a little strange as both the amp (NX3000D) and the BKA & CS Plat are supposed to be way more powerful than a BK Gamer. The CS Plat does a weird clicking noise if I put it to high even though it's the Plat model which is extremely expensive and supposed to be ablw to output tons of feedback.

I don't know. Compared to using a single BK Gamer 2 last year, using a CS Plat and BKA has been a little underwhelming.

I wonder if the SimLab P1 and aluminum profile rigs in general just aren't suited to tactile. Isn't wood a much better material for vibrations?