Discussion | Direct Drive Wheels: The Good, Bad And The Ugly

[Paul Jeffrey]

Discussion time! Direct Drive wheels are becoming increasingly common in sim racing, but which one should you get?

Long gone are the days of just one or two niche manufacturers developing DD wheel solutions for a hardcore few. In 2020, the discerning sim racer has a wealth of choice when looking to make the switch to Direct Drive... but with so many options, and such a high price point, what constitutes a good purchase?

I am not going to even try and pretend I am an expert on all the different DD bases available today, far from it in fact, so I thought it worth throwing up this thread for our community to discuss their own experiences, and offer up advice to those still thinking over their next steps.

For the record, I run the Bodnar SimSteering V2 and absolutely love it; however at the price point they are asking, you will probably want to follow the route I took and purchase it second hand!

 

[Deleted member 197115]

In a way the servo's have already done what you suggest VR has done but it did it before VR and thats why it looks like it's not moving on price.

Exactly, the are 1/3 already of what first DD Systems from Leo Bodnar were/are.

 

[5-Card-Major]

Hi mate you repeated again what wasn't clear in the first time.

Are you asking for opinions about those products quality or value?

Haven't tried stepper AF V2 but everyone speaks highly about its durability and its performance is way way above any belt wheel, but still servo SC2 performs better (no idea how it compares to servo Fanatec DD1 and 2 and the new stepper Chinese DD).

CSL LC were one of the smartest choices thanks to good quality and acceptable price. Fanatec products feel almost premium/ luxury with lower prices than the counterparts that custom make their stuff. Fanatec electronics durability isn't so reputable at least in my opinion but pedals are less prone to brakes and failures than other sim racing equipment (correct me if I'm wrong guys).

Now there are many other new options for load cell pedals with prices above and below CSL (Other guys can add more here).

CSL rim? why? Accuforce comes with a circular/oval budget rim that is built like a tank and works for every car style. But I love CSL rims anyway. But their QR system barely can stand a DD power.

What else? DD on a table/desk? It's like ceramic brakes for a Toyota Corolla. Buy a rig before you buy a DD. (Am I wrong guys?).

What else? 1100$? Mate only AF V2 costs 999$.

What was not clear? At the end of the post, I stated, "thoughts?"...

I don't have space in this room for a rig, so it has to be desk-mounted. The price included $100. for the desk clamp. I'll have to check out the AccuForce rim.

I appreciate your input. Most of the posts in this thread are quite good... I'm learning.

 

[BrightCandle]

There are some advancements that could be made to FFB wheels. One might be the ability to push a force down the wheel that isn't just rotation because that does happen in real cars and while the movement is very small but it's still felt by the driver. Other than that most of the work on improving feel is about the simulation physics and how its translated into the wheel. Sims are all over the place in how they feel and they take quite a lot of serious shortcuts on their simulations and do so quite differently as well. Some of us prefer effects to compensate for lack of body G and some want just the front feel. Ideally, all sims in the future give us the option of what we can mix in and start to coalesce around the more realistic basis for the FFB and physics, as well as giving us other effects that we might want to add to compensate. This is where the most innovation needs to happen, the wheels are all (even the cheaper ones) capable of delivering a better experience than they do currently.

I do think the technology is fundamentally limited by the technology of motors and the cost is driven by materials. Maybe we could come up with a better system for gearing up a smaller motor with fewer issues other than cogging and belts with more precise engineering technology. The sort of forces we need and the latency and such is within current tech levels just at a higher price than ideal for a peripheral. So most of the hardware innovation is going to be in cost and getting the most out of the smallest price. As the volume goes up it will help bring the prices down, but volumes one $1k peripheral is always going to be quite low, that is more than people regularly spend on their PC to run all games.

 

[LagunaSeca]

This thread is not about photography....thanks.

So? DD wheels are part of "I just love gears" culture around here. If you really like a pure thread, you should probably go ahead and report all those people talking about DD wheels without trying them. This is not the typical discussion class in your college. Paul gave us a title, and we will let the conversation flow naturally.

 

[DB_1973]

So I don't own a DD and am not an opposed to them, for me I upgraded over the course of a year. To a csl elite which was a big upgrade from the g920. But for me triples and bass shakers were next. Now waiting on heusinkveld sprint to arrive, to upgrade my csl lc pedals. From what I have read the DD are awesome but more of a luxury. But I am sure when the time comes, I will feel the DD is an upgrade like the csl was to the g920. At the same time the talk of being faster... it seem most of the super fast people use the old g25/27 series wheels set super low ffb. I don't think dd will make me any faster, but smiles per mile will probably go up. But each their own, people are way to opinionated. If you enjoy racing with what you got no matter the gear then you have won!

 

[Miguel Batista]

So I don't own a DD and am not an opposed to them, for me I upgraded over the course of a year. To a csl elite which was a big upgrade from the g920. But for me triples and bass shakers were next. Now waiting on heusinkveld sprint to arrive, to upgrade my csl lc pedals. From what I have read the DD are awesome but more of a luxury. But I am sure when the time comes, I will feel the DD is an upgrade like the csl was to the g920. At the same time the talk of being faster... it seem most of the super fast people use the old g25/27 series wheels set super low ffb. I don't think dd will make me any faster, but smiles per mile will probably go up. But each their own, people are way to opinionated. If you enjoy racing with what you got no matter the gear then you have won!

This is a fair take and one I can relate. I think before upgrading my CSW I will probably first get a proper rig and get some but kickers in it to get that chassis feel through the seat.

There was a post on reddit from someone who "downgraded" from a DD wheel to a CSL Elite and he was quite happy.

 

[5-Card-Major]

So? DD wheels are part of "I just love gears" culture around here. If you really like a pure thread, you should probably go ahead and report all those people talking about DD wheels without trying them. This is not the typical discussion class in your college. Paul gave us a title, and we will let the conversation flow naturally.

Extending your convoluted logic a very short step, let's not have forum nor thread categories. Just lump them all together, and list the folder 'any topic under the sun'.

 

[Alex72]

[Please read to the end - this is not a love note to overpriced DD wheels]

DD wheel - a big industrial motor connected directly to the wheel you hold, no belts, no gears or anything else to interpret the signal you get all the feedback directly to your hands (unlike almost any power-assisted car available to buy today - excluding go-karts and some minor lightweight track/race cars).

Centre feel - the centre wheel feel of DD is immediate, neither belted TX nor geared Logi are able to produce this. (my bold)
...

Centre feel is one of my biggest issues with non-DD wheels. No one understands me when i say its too much FFB deadzone "in the middle" and most people say "I wouldnt want that anyway!". Ok, so they dont want a DD wheel then or drive a real car, lol.

 

[Glaniu]

Centre feel is one of my biggest issues with non-DD wheels. No one understands me when i say its too much FFB deadzone "in the middle" and most people say "I wouldnt want that anyway!". Ok, so they dont want a DD wheel then or drive a real car, lol.

Exactly. I have the same ;-)

 

[LagunaSeca]

Extending your convoluted logic a very short step, let's not have forum nor thread categories. Just lump them all together, and list the folder 'any topic under the sun'.

Well this is a discussion on the front page, which means it opens to a wider range of discussion and conversations. You are more than welcome to point a finger at me if I ever open a camera thread under "simracing hardware".

Besides I am still wondering, apart from tons of non-DD users commenting about stuff they have never used, why did I have the honor to get your attention? (And I am indeed a DD user. https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/the-dangerous-random-fanatec-shifter.178340/#post-3113870 )

You see there is no camera in that post. I am talking about off topic stuff probably because I am afraid of the lingering anger here.

 

[5-Card-Major]

"...this is a discussion on the front page, which means it opens to a wider range of discussion..." >
Says who?

"...why did I have the honor to get your attention?"
Again, you were discussing camera/photography matters in a thread called "DD Wheels: The Good, Bad, and The Ugly." And sarcasm duly noted.

I'm here in this thread to learn. I have not rendered an opinion on wheels I haven't used. You folks are informed/experienced in sim racing technology. I appreciate the opportunity to get that information.

"...lingering anger..." Huh?

 

[5-Card-Major]

I'm considering the SimXperience AccuForce V2 with the Fanatec ClubSport v. 2.5 pedals at the upper end, or the G29 (which is hovering around $560. now on Amazon.), if I feel guilty about the price of the DD wheel base.

The last time I raced was way back in the day with a bargain wheel/pedals in Grand Prix Legends.

Our computer room with two desks and bookcases is too small for a racing rig.

 

[Emery]

I'm considering the SimXperience AccuForce V2 with the Fanatec ClubSport v. 2.5 pedals at the upper end, or the G29 (which is hovering around $560. now on Amazon.), if I feel guilty about the price of the DD wheel base.

The last time I raced was way back in the day with a bargain wheel/pedals in Grand Prix Legends.

Our computer room with two desks and bookcases is too small for a racing rig.

If you're not going to hard mount the wheel, then DD is a waste for you. Maybe even the CSW.

 

[5-Card-Major]

If you're not going to hard mount the wheel, then DD is a waste for you. Maybe even the CSW.

My computer desk is a tank....super heavy/solid...The legs of my computer chair will be attached in a rather complicated way to the bottom of the desk. Yeah, a PITA.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

The legs of my computer chair will be attached in a rather complicated way to the bottom of the desk

crowd is asking for photographic evidence. we do admire a good DIY job here at RD

 

[5-Card-Major]

crowd is asking for photographic evidence. we do admire a good DIY job here at RD

Let's get Laguna Seca to take the pics...

 

[LagunaSeca]

Let's get Laguna Seca to take the pics...

Well I cannot be at your room atm. Maybe I can do the honor by photoshopping what you shot

Also, if you are here to learn, you should probably open an interdependent thread and people with answer. You can see there are people commenting on stuff they have never used and they are worth/not worth the money, which can be seen as fake info. Compared to them I am relatively harmless, thus the reason I am asking you why did I have the honor.

PS: DD wheel need bolts to mount, accuforce V2 does not come with a clamp. Unless you want to drill your desk I still recommend a dedicated rig.

 

[5-Card-Major]

Well I cannot be at your room atm. Maybe I can do the honor by photoshopping what you shot

Also, if you are here to learn, you should probably open an interdependent thread and people with answer. You can see there are people commenting on stuff they have never used and they are worth/not worth the money, which can be seen as fake info. Compared to them I am relatively harmless, thus the reason I am asking you why did I have the honor.

PS: DD wheel need bolts to mount, accuforce V2 does not come with a clamp. Unless you want to drill your desk I still recommend a dedicated rig.

I wish I had the room for a rig... Maybe the Fanatec ClubSport wheelbase has clamp for desk...I'll check, thanks.

EDIT... ClubSport 2.5 wheel base...clamp https://fanatec.com/eu-en/cockpits-mounting/clubsport-table-clamp-v2

 

[5-Card-Major]

Oops... I'm getting off thread topic of DD Wheels.....Sorry. 5-Card-Major will have a hissy fit..... watch out...


Ken Miles won Le Mans in 1966.

 

[Fi22le]

I wish I had the room for a rig... Maybe the Fanatec ClubSport wheelbase has clamp for desk...I'll check, thanks.

EDIT... ClubSport 2.5 wheel base...clamp https://fanatec.com/eu-en/cockpits-mounting/clubsport-table-clamp-v2

Regarding desk mounting: I bolted my wheel on to a piece of wooden board with the heads recessed in. I use 2 of these clamps to hold the board to my desk:

Neewer Heavy-duty Metal Table Mounting Clamp for Microphone Suspension Boom Scissor Arm Stand Holder with Adjustable Positioning Screw, Fits up to 1.77"/4.5cm Desktop Thickness--Black (2 Pack): Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments

Buy Neewer Heavy-duty Metal Table Mounting Clamp for Microphone Suspension Boom Scissor Arm Stand Holder with Adjustable Positioning Screw, Fits up to 1.77"/4.5cm Desktop Thickness--Black (2 Pack). Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

Works great, and means I can convert from workspace to sim rig in a couple of seconds.

My desk is also built like a tank btw.