Blue Flag Blues

[Antony Snook]

I heard on UTUBE that one of the FIA comentaors thinks F1 should stop blue flags. This sounds right as you need is DRS. That is all you need to get round in the DRS zone. The only problem is what i have seen on TV and done on my PC. You see yellow flag in a race where you are off the pace and slow down, The car takes you a lap down. (One less lap to run on a race that you don't have a shot) But then behind the car is another car, there one place behind you ready for the sneak past so you loose 1 or more places for obeying rules.

 

[Durge Driven]

Just disable them
Oh wait that's rF2

 

[jgf]

DRS, and the Indy "push to pass" nonsense, are merely artificial responses to an issue that should be addressed at a more basic level. High tech variations of nitrous bottles.

If you want closer racing and more passing, redesign the cars so they are not affected as much by "dirty air". F1 has known this for ages but seems reluctant to pursue the obvious, preferring these stopgap measures.

 

[Antony Snook]

DRS, and the Indy "push to pass" nonsense, are merely artificial responses to an issue that should be addressed at a more basic level. High tech variations of nitrous bottles.

If you want closer racing and more passing, redesign the cars so they are not affected as much by "dirty air". F1 has known this for ages but seems reluctant to pursue the obvious, preferring these stopgap measures.

I agree in the up to the 90's the back of the car known as the coke bottle, behind and beetween the rear tires., was square and blocky like a Volvo car. Making a big vacume, Teams have made the back end slope down low in this area even sidepods squeze into here in beetween rear tires. This shrinks vacume making it harder to trail. You loose downforce if you get close. Basically the airo at the back is hogging clean air and preventing it from helping a trailing car. All the FIA have to do if make rulles to stop the teams puting this airo into the back of the car by forcing them to work into tight parameters that make reverse airo obsolete. Obviously there is to much freedom in airo at the back. And that is what separates a good team from a bad one. I am not saying make the cars spec and run the same airo but closer airo that encourages slip streaming.

 

[bi11y]

on the FIA - What the heck are they doing with the extra wide white lines at corner 7 at Monza??

Seriously what an absolute joke.

 

[jgf]

Seriously what an absolute joke.

Modern "Monza"? How true.

 

[Antony Snook]

on the FIA - What the heck are they doing with the extra wide white lines at corner 7 at Monza??

Seriously what an absolute joke.

Making the line white and wider puts emphasis on track limits. I have never seen a driver take a turn and look to the outside. Your eyes will be on exit point from apex into straight. Maybe its for the officials in the booth so they can call it. And it is not subject to debate by teams.

 

[bi11y]

Making the line white and wider puts emphasis on track limits. I have never seen a driver take a turn and look to the outside. Your eyes will be on exit point from apex into straight. Maybe its for the officials in the booth so they can call it. And it is not subject to debate by teams.

The penalty is applied when the inside tyre goes off the white line...

Making the white line wider make the "effective" track wider - it basically the opposite of making drivers slow down and take the corner properly. It just make the track bigger with a wider white line.

In many shots the lighting made it difficult to see the outer edge of the white line, but clearly the inside of the car was allowably a much larger distance - maybe 30cm away from "The tarmac track" while usually cars are only allow 10-15cm.

I don't see the benefit except for making it easier for the drivers to not get penalties.

The "definition" of white lines is part of the track is wrong in my opinion and it would be better if the tarmac only was the track, if the inside tyre leaves the track would probably be easier to see visually.

Even better they should make a technology solution and have the centre of the car the reference point. For "sporting" intent the "driver" would stay within the "track" - seems logical to me...

 

[Antony Snook]

The penalty is applied when the inside tyre goes off the white line...

Making the white line wider make the "effective" track wider - it basically the opposite of making drivers slow down and take the corner properly. It just make the track bigger with a wider white line.

In many shots the lighting made it difficult to see the outer edge of the white line, but clearly the inside of the car was allowably a much larger distance - maybe 30cm away from "The tarmac track" while usually cars are only allow 10-15cm.

I don't see the benefit except for making it easier for the drivers to not get penalties.

The "definition" of white lines is part of the track is wrong in my opinion and it would be better if the tarmac only was the track, if the inside tyre leaves the track would probably be easier to see visually.

Even better they should make a technology solution and have the centre of the car the reference point. For "sporting" intent the "driver" would stay within the "track" - seems logical to me...

In the 50's a driver, don't recal name said they went wide to send dust and dirt clouds into the air. (Just like American mouvies in desert where police smoked tires from lay over hence name "SMOKEY") This is dangerus as stones and debris can get flicked into the air and can cause a acident. A stone in the front tire, Windsheild or even visor. The driver did this to make the driver back off as they saw a cloud of dust. We as fans want to see drivers close in and even pass and the turn at slow speed seems to be the best place to do this. As straights are hard to pass at full speed. Its a game of chicken to see who can carry the most speed into the turn whille staying on the definition of track limits to avoid penalty's

 

[bi11y]

In the 50's a driver, don't recal name said they went wide to send dust and dirt clouds into the air. (Just like American mouvies in desert where police smoked tires from lay over hence name "SMOKEY") This is dangerus as stones and debris can get flicked into the air and can cause a acident. A stone in the front tire, Windsheild or even visor. The driver did this to make the driver back off as they saw a cloud of dust. We as fans want to see drivers close in and even pass and the turn at slow speed seems to be the best place to do this. As straights are hard to pass at full speed. Its a game of chicken to see who can carry the most speed into the turn whille staying on the definition of track limits to avoid penalty's

Not so convinced by your history lesson on track limits... there might be the odd situation as you state, but I am fairly certain that the lack of grip off track with hard track edges made it far more natural for drivers to instinctively keep the car ON the track to keep control of the car..


I think it is still sporting regulation 27.3 "Drivers must make very reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not leave the track without a justifiable reason. At the absolute discretion of the Race Director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track."

That's pretty clear cut - the race direction discretion is specified for giving back advantaged gained BY BREAKING THE RULES. So I interpret that the Race Director is allowed to apply discretion to allow the cheating and allow NOT giving back advantage...

I am perplexed that they have additional directives at some events where they specify that some corners the stewards have specific treatment - to apply nor not apply the rule..

Rules are rules aren't they?

Adding a wider line just adds to inconsistency and it effectively widens the track making it EASIER for the drivers to stay on the "track".

Formula 1 is meant to be EASY isn't it??

Oh silly me "getting a faster lap time" is a "justifiable reason".

They should really just tell the commentators that track limits should not be discussed.

I'm also very surprised that no-one else in the world seems to be upset by the widening line situation - and the precedence this sets and what could happen with other tracks in the future..

One of the commentators I think mentioned it could be done at Austria and I don't know if they were being serious or sarcastic.

 

[jgf]

Rules are rules aren't they?

Not in any series with which I'm familiar. Outside of flagrant violations, rules are applied in such an arbitrary fashion that I wonder why they even have them. One driver (usually a "popular" driver) can get away with repeated violations that would get another driver a points/time/position penalty, if not a black flag.

As for keeping drivers "on the track", the solution is simple - curbs (or kerbs, for those "across the pond").

 

[J.J.McClure]

Build cars that allow you to drive close behind.
Creates this ridiculous budget cap, engine cap, etc. away.
They do nothing except that not every last thing is taken out of the cars.
Back then there was a new engine for every session. Tire choice was up to each individual.
1st training, 2nd training, 3rd training, Qualification, Warm-up, Race.
After 320 km the engine was dead.
Formula 1, as the top series, should also be the most expensive series.
If the season costs 350 million euros, then so be it. It's Formula 1.
Build cars that can be overtaken without any technical gadgets.
Plant grass next to the white line or curbs again or build gravel beds again.
Then the topic of track limits is history and missing the curve is immediately punished with loss of place.
Stop calling parking lots race tracks.
Stop neutering Monaco & Spa.
Stop plastering the screen with computer game graphics.
Announce penalties during the race and not 10 years later. Finally let spectacle happen again. When I see the ridiculous things drivers are punished for today, I think of kindergarten trips on bobby cars. That's how it started with the DTM. Everyone can see where this series stands now. Now any GT3 series, there are hundreds of them.
Where have the real DTM cars gone?
It's called the German Touring Car Championship, isn't it?
Let them drive in the rain again. But the blow-dried hair under the helmet could get wet.
As an old racing driver once said. We still applied the brakes when it rained.
But that's just how it is when you practice on TV. An accident doesn't hurt.
Limit the number of races again to a level that allows sensible preparation for the season. Tearful radio message today:
He pushed me away. That was, was, was life-threatening. I'm still shaking now.
I come in, I'm traumatized.
When I think about all the duels over the last thirty years.
Schumi vs. Hakkinnen. Schumi vs. Montoya, Schumi vs. Hill, Schumi vs. Villeneuve or all the tough duels between the midfielders. They had the knife between their teeth.
Put men in the cars again and not children with three hairs glued to their chests.
This whole “we love each other” drama is unbearable.
Formula 1 used to be the toughest and fastest racing class. Today, even road vehicles have more horsepower and sometimes drive faster. Not in acceleration, but in top speed.
I look forward to it every weekend.
There is always a race going on somewhere that is streamed.
WEC in Fuji, VLN Nürburgring. Vintage racing at Goodwood. That was just Sunday.
Who else needs Formula 1?
Especially since the prices for a Formula 1 race are so overpriced.
If even television stations no longer want to pay for broadcasts, that should give those responsible something to think about

 

[Pete Conway]

I say do away with...
Team/Car radio, DRS, Blue flags and... Mirrors, Yup mirrors too, they're only use is to block an overtaking move.

And while we're at it Full return of 300+ hp/ NA engines of 3-4 liters in displacement, 15 inch dia wheels with gumball rear tyres, and outboard brakes (within the wheel rim) Manual H pattern with 3rd pedal... Clutch.
Oh yeah, and 550kg minimum dry weight.