F1 2010 Assists VS no assists

[John Forester]

Hey guys, this is the first topic i have posted here, i hope nobody minds. Im a ps3 user, i know that most people here play on the PC version of the game (certainly in the topics ive read anyway) but its great to come here to discuss setups, issues ect ect...

Anyways I digress. Recently ive become pretty competent at driving with the assists off (leaving automatic gear box and pit lane assistance on though), i prefer driving like this because it makes the game more challenging and realistic, as well as making career mode in particular more competitive. However recently ive began to wonder whether my skills with assists off, actually surpass my skills with assists on.

Having the assists on, to me, is too easy, because you can attack everything 100% and you rarely face a consequence, and i play for the challenge and realism, as well as understanding that competent throttle/brake control is a skill in itself that many fail to master.

However ive tried to do a few TT's leaving the assists on believing this was the way to get the fastest time, because you can, attack more, break later and gas it earlier. I remember i did a 1.43.3xx at Spa with the assists ON, and since then, ive never been able to beat that (one reason is because the goast car does my absolute head in, and makes me loose consentration). Im quite disappointed with that time, and i never even considered that, far for the assists helping me, they could actuall be slowing me down.

In a Multiplayer race, i had all the assists OFF (manual gearbox and pit assist on) and i managed a 1.43.4xx at Spa, and it wasnt even that much of a good lap (missing the odd apex ect ect) i was so confused as to how i could nearly match my time with assists ON when logically you would think it would be harder.

Anyways, i thought i would ask you guys for your opinions. Do you think there is any truth in the fact that mastering driving with assists OFF will actually make you faster? Do you think that the best times on TT are obtained by people driving like that?

Assists ON or assists OFF, whats your opinions fellas?

 

[Piet Dekimpe]

depends on your equipment : if you have a wheel with pedals and gear shifters, than assists off is a must if you want to go faster...If you are playing with a PS3 controller than some assists on ( like TC) might be better i think

 

[Roman5]

I've come to think that no assists makes you faster. Taking traction control for instance, if you don't have it on, the car is more prone to spinning at the slightest mistake. On the plus side, if you can control it, then because the car isn't being held down by traction control or however traction works, you should be faster. Traction acts a bit like downforce I think in that it creates slight drag. It's a bit like driving on ice compared to sandpaper. Ice is more slippery, but because there's less friction, the car can move along quicker. That's my theory, I may be wrong.

 

[Chris Rees]

I think if you master how to be quick with Assists its quicker in the long run than using no assists. Take Melbourne for example.. I have driven my socks off around there with no assists on several occasions and get slaughtered by the quick guys that do use assists (and i dont mind blowing my own trumpet and saying im fairly quick). The reason for this is they can just keep their foot planted out of the chicanes and not have to deal with any consequences. If i was to try the same i may match them in lap time but 9 out of 10 laps i would be likely to spin.

The traction control needs to be tamed for 2011. Its to much of an unfair advantage. When they was using it in F1 for real the drivers could still spin if way to heavy on the throttle and by no means would the system stop a car spinning when hitting curbs and when hacking it through marble stricken run off and grass.

 

[Paul Lock]

I dont use assists anymore, but I could still spin the back out even with full TC on

Personally I just dont think they should have Auto Brakes, ABS or TC in the game at all. Real F1 doesnt have it, so why should the game.

(Yes I know why the game has it, and thats probably exactly the reason online games are full of clowns who drive like idiots).

 

[Chris Rees]

Im with you Paul but unfortuantaly we are in the minority of ppl that race with no assists at all. To not have them in the game would seriously effect the sales figures. Not everybody is hardcore like us

I just think the TC shouldnt be so forgiving!

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I've won over 200 races, so that probably means I've driven in 800-1000, yet I can't drive for crap with TC off, I can handle the rest off, but TC off makes my car understeer like a pig, and ensures that I spin out of corners.
Nobody online can blow me away if I use assists, but with assists off, I'm not in the game.
I also drive GTR Evo F1 and all evo cars in pro mode for 18months.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

(Yes I know why the game has it, and thats probably exactly the reason online games are full of clowns who drive like idiots).

Maybe, but what about the stupid ghosting?

 

[Paul Lock]

Yup its all about the cash from sales in CMs pocket at the end of the day. You can tell that they arent too bothered about actual game players enjoyment after the sale has been made by their lack of support and reluctance to even accept there are a few issues need addressing.

Not sure how many other games come with such fundamental advantagous assists as F1 mind you. Its the driving equivilant of an aimbot on a shooter game. People expect to be too good at things too quickly. When you start playing a shooter, it can take a while till you learn the maps, how to use the tools, weapons etc and you get shot a lot. Yet people want to take a driving game out the box and win at it almost instantly. If they dont the game is labeled as junk as its the games fault. Im rambling now and will shut up.

I must just say, im beginning to look around at the likes of rFactor and iRacing for a bit more sim-like gaming experience where i may be more competitive against fellow drivers.

 

[Paul Lock]

Maybe, but what about the stupid ghosting?

I dont know what you mean? Im pretty sure cars ghost for 2 reasons

Either collisions have been set to 'off' or the car has ghosted because the drivers internet connection is lagging above an acceptable level.

 

[My993C2]

I've won over 200 races, so that probably means I've driven in 800-1000, yet I can't drive for crap with TC off, I can handle the rest off, but TC off makes my car understeer like a pig, and ensures that I spin out of corners.

I suspect you meant to say you oversteered when you attempted to drive with traction control off. What is the difference between understeering and oversteering? That's easy, when you understeer you get to see the tree you are about to hit since the front tires do not bite when you attempt to turn and you plow off the course. When you oversteer you don't get to see the tree you are about to hit since you have swapped ends.

I have never played rFactor, but I have enough experience in iRacing and in GTR2/GTR Evo and without a doubt this game is easier to drive than any of the others I have played. But sometimes I think iRacing takes their physics a little too far. Now I do think iRacing is the best of the best when it comes to simulation physics, but one thing we miss from these games versus driving in the real world is the physical sensations. I find driving my Porsche 911 or driving a Formula Renault car in the real world a heck of a lot easier than driving the iRacing cars at their limits. But I digress, this is still a fun game.

Here is my take on traction control. The talented driver who knows how to control their car with their right foot will always be faster than the person who relies on TC. Why do I say this? Because with traction control, drive to the real wheels is temporarily disrupted whenever someone is pushing the limits when a power on oversteer scenario is imminent and traction control had to kick in to save their bacon. Also people who rely on TC are at a higher risk of hitting their rev limits (especially coming out of corners) and this is also another scenario where drive to the real wheels is disrupted. The person who knows how to drive their car to the limit without exceeding the limit will not have power disrupted to the rear wheels. Also, another fault for driving with traction control turned on, is that it can mask power-on oversteer car setup deficiencies. But it is debatable as to how accurate the setup configurations are in this game.

For the record, I do 100% length races in this game and I usually drive with "medium" traction control turned on. Why do I do this when I know it could be costing me possible race pace? I try to be smooth with my throttle inputs, but I drive with medium TC turned on because in the heat of a moment when I am racing another car, I could get a little too happy with my right foot and driving with medium TC turned on can save my bacon in a race. The goal is to eventually drive with TC turned off, but I am not there yet.

 

[Gareth Jones]

I play on the xbox and generally only have TC on medium and auto gears. I would prefer manual gears but there is too much to do on the control pad, my fingers are too close together! I've experimented with TC off but I find the trigger is too sensitive and I keep spinning all the time.

I recently tried playing with the line guide off ( in a career race at bahrain ) and found it better after a few laps, especially later on in the race when the darkened racing line showed through.

 

[William Kalwick]

Turning TC off was a big step for me, but one I am happy I did. It forced me to learn more about throttle fiddling and now my peddle work has improved substantially.

 

[Roman5]

Top laptimes on PC leaderboard are all with no assists. Most of the top ten times on any circuit are non assist.The ones in 1st and 2nd place on the leaderboard with assists are cheats, ie, californiaguy and one or two others.

 

[Gareth Jones]

Top laptimes on PC leaderboard are all with no assists. Most of the top ten times on any circuit are non assist.The ones in 1st and 2nd place on the leaderboard with assists are cheats, ie, californiaguy and one or two others.

I'm guessing that's because you can get far better throttle control with the pedal as opposed to the button / trigger on a control pad, also I hate it when the revs keep hitting the limiter on auto gears.

Sorry I clicked the wrong post to quote, I meant the one above by Will.

 

[Paul Lock]

I agree that manual gears on a controller is a bit much to handle. I also see a place for racing line. But i think the auto brake, abs and tc is something with time and practice everyone could live without.

 

[Chris Rees]

The reason i think that the top times in TT are by non assists players is because the ppl at the top are the proper proper enthusiasts with the most talent and the proper proper enthusiasts dont want to rely on TCS as its so unrealistic.

Not only that but in TT the amount of grip is so rediculously high that it evens out everything and all of a sudden the TCS isnt such an advantage (you can still hit the throttle bloody hard even with TCS off).

and... You dont have to be consistant in TT, if you spin just start the lap again. I bet if there was a 10lap TT the TCS players would be right back in the thick of it.

 

[John Forester]

Thanks for all your replys guys, im with many of you on your opinions. As a dedicated f1 enthusiast, i want to try and excel myself at the highest level, and also achive competent driving with the most realistic settings, because not to do so, in my view, almost insults formula 1 itself. Although i race with automatic gearbox, and pit assistance ON, i have all other assists off, and in time, when i become competent enough, i will start trying to race all the time, with manual gearbox and manual pit control (I do sometimes but not all the time, im not quite good enough yet).

I seems like many players online, dont share this respect and enthusiasm for the f1 sport and the challenges "real" f1 drivers have to face. Thats probably the reason why so many people drive with assists ON, and also why so many people drive like absolute d*ckheads just attempting to wipe people out, because they have no racing ettiquette, they just want to have "selfish" fun. As for the issues about which is faster, im not sure, TC and ABS definately gives a driver more security, but for me, it takes away 75% of the challenge and commitment f1 drivers have to face and show, when entering exiting corners aka its simply too easy. I agree that the best drivers with assists off, will probably leave even the best with assists ON chasing their treadmarks. For the average newb, i would be fine with allowing him to drive with assists ON, but it seems like even some long term players, have no intrests of bettering themselves to rise to a higher challege, that kinda bugs me.

The real problem is the online gaming mode doesnt seperate "the men from the boys" enough. I think online mode should force people choose how they want to race first, rather than just allow them to access a full menu with all the game and then let them choose from there. It should make people set their parameters first, for example, those who want to race with TC ON, must select that as part of the parameters before they are allowed to view the available games menu, and visa versa for those who want assists OFF. That way we would see 2 huge dramatic advances in multiplayer mode.

a) New players and those who want assists ON, won't have to mix it with experienced players and those who enjoy the challenge and competition. (I say this because as an assists OFF user, it get a little annoyed if im racing again guys who have assists OFF, not because they beat me, because on many occasions they dont, but because when i beat them, they have no idea i have assists off, so it kinda feels like i wouldnt be getting credit where it is due.) Winning is great, but for people to learn that i won, without assists while others used them, would make me feel even happier . But there again, if i get beaten by somebody with assists ON, i guess you could say i would feel conned. Thats why specifing parameters before selecting your game, would stop that problem, everybody would be in the same boat.

b) In my view, it would save a HUGE amount of waiting time that it takes for people to join games, sometimes when i set my own game up, i could go and have a cup of tea, and come back, and the slots on my race lobby would still only be half full! This is because people are getting too much choice and their selection isnt been narrowed down enough. Plus, you can only view the specific available assists, once you enter the lobby. Alot of people enter your game, then see the assists are not to their liking, and leave. Making people enter their desired parameters before that, would eliminate that problem. It gets really frustrating waiting around for 10,15 sometimes 20 minutes, to get a grid ready to race, when you compare that to games like CoD, which take under a minute to organise games, there is certainly an obvious room for improvement.

Maybe im being too fussy, but i think these are legitimate points that need addressing in the future. :wink:

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I suspect you meant to say you oversteered when you attempted to drive with traction control off. .

No, understeered into entry, and oversteer on exit....=nogrip.

 

[John Forester]

No, understeered into entry, and oversteer on exit....=nogrip.

Understeering will be caused by having ABS off, because your braking too hard and your tyres must be locking, having TC OFF wont make any difference to the cars handling upon entering a corner, because you are not applying power, TC OFF will only make the car oversteer upon acceleration.