Anyone see this? CSL Direct Drive.

[Michael Krone]

Looks like that April Fools joke isnt so much a joke now? https://www.racedepartment.com/news/fanatec-reveal-new-csl-dd-wheelbase.34/

 

[St3fan]

SRP is running 32cm ebay wheel and ao1977 is using a smaller formula rim, and I think that would make a big difference. Also from my experience with TX and the old CSL elite base, the CSL is already an appreciable upgrade.

Also I want to point out that @ao1977 says the Simplicity base uses 110ST-M06030 motor, and that motor is rated 6 Nm holding torque and 18 NM peak torque so that is actually a very strong motor.

 

[Panicpete]

Where does lower rotational mass in the larger motor come from, carbon fiber shaft?

From omitting the gear ratio of the belt drive. To achieve a certain rotational speed/acceleration at the wheel you will need a considerably higher speed/acceleration at the motor when going through the belt drive compared to direct drive.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

From omitting the gear ratio of the belt drive. To achieve a certain rotational speed/acceleration at the wheel you will need a considerably higher speed/acceleration at the motor when going through the belt drive compared to direct drive.

This is not a rotational mass per se, but yes, 1:1 gear ratio will help with acceleration at the cost of torque so you'd need stronger motor to get to the same nm.

 

[Panicpete]

This is not a rotational mass per se, but yes, 1:1 gear ratio will help with acceleration at the cost of torque so you'd need stronger motor to get to the same nm.

Correct, rotational mass is not the most accurate term, but the effect of a smaller rotational mass driven through a belt drive is the same as that of a larger rotational mass directly on the wheel shaft. Maybe rotational inertia with reference to the wheel shaft would describe it more accurately?
And yes, you need a stronger motor when driving the wheel shaft directly, which is why it is larger

 

[R8pilot]

The CSW's motor, natively, is almost certainly well below the 8 Nm (or whatever) that the CSW is rated for. The large pully components are there to provide mechanical reduction, which increases the final torque, but they and the belts do behave like a flywheel and hence may reduce high-frequency bandwidth.

From the exploded render of the new product, it looks like the stator is on the outside and the magnets are on the inside. They show the "shaft" on the inside of the magnets, and so it appears that it's a brushless in-runner motor. I'd guess that its high-frequency bandwidth will be higher - perhaps considerably - than the CSW's, but the focus on the shaft sounds more like marketing to me, and it's apples-and-oranges anyway.

One spec that I haven't seen yet is "holding torque" (vs. peak torque). I could see holding torque being rather low, maybe 1/3 of the peak torque, so perhaps 2 Nm? Not that much. Given how close its torque is to that demanded during normal use, I'd wonder how warm it might get.

Over-all, it's an interesting and attractive product that should really shake things up.

 

[super_gt]

I could see holding torque being rather low, maybe 1/3 of the peak torque, so perhaps 2 Nm?

This assumption is wrong.

 

[R8pilot]

OK, so "5 Nm peak torque," and what amount of holding torque then?

Edit: Since the motor is capable of 8 Nm peak with a larger power supply, I could imagine that the continuous torque rating, which is usually about half peak torque, could be something like 4 Nm. If so, the device may get warm during typical use.

 

[super_gt]

CSL DD - three early units available for review, vote for your favourite channel!​

 

[Wilko Jones]

CSL DD - three early units available for review, vote for your favourite channel!​

Sim Racing Garage is already a shoo in. And it looks like Boosted Media and Chris Haye are rounding out the top picks. All is well.

I will add my vote, but any of the 3 I just mentioned would get my +1.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Could have just one unit and send it to SRG. The rest is not even a remote match when it comes to hardware reviews.

 

[Wilko Jones]

Could have just one unit and send it to SRG. The rest is not even a remote match when it comes to hardware reviews.

Well...

The Sim Channel, and Karl Goslin would put the CSL DD on a wheel stand and review it from the perspective of the semi- serious enthusiast. SRG won't go beyond a tear down, and inital use. He'll expound on how it does for its price, but won't make a significant comparison between it and a Simplicity wheel, or a Simagic wheel unless; he does another shootout between lower powered direct drive wheels. But that ain't happening any time soon.

You can bet the color of your irises that Boosted Media is going to heavily compare the CSL DD to the Simagic wheel. And so would Gamer-Muscle and Simracing 604. 604 would also compare it to the Accuforce PV2 as well.

I'm not saying I dislike what Rowland does at SRG, but when it comes to getting an idea of how it is to live with specific gear, there are others who does a far better job than he does.

For example, listening to SRG's review of those pedals from India (Sim Forge, I believe) had me thinking they were a steal. After asking around about them (and getting various sermons from the church of Heusinkveld) I became skeptical of the set. SRG did nothing wrong with the review, but he also didn't say yay or nay about the set at all. That was very "Consumer Reports" of him, IMO.

 

[BrightCandle]

As is that top 3 is fine but not my 3 choices. We have a teardown person in Barry but he doesn't do reviews really but I would want him in the mix. Boosted media will do a reasonable subjective and comparative review. Not sure why Chris Hayes is third he really hasn't been into reviewing anything so far and is more about the cinematics of sim racing, presenting its art. As an additional subjective review I would want GamerMuscle instead because he understands FFB better than most anyone else and he can do reviews.

No one reviewer can do it all and I really feel the lack of a reviewer that looks into verifying the hard number like peak and holding torque and can do FFB signal analysis to evaluate the software and hardwares capabilities in comparable numbers and the impact of the settings. We need the GamersNexus of Peripherals (specifically in our case for sim racing). I feel there is quite a lot that could be said about especially the software filtering but it would have to be measured from the wheel. A whole method for capturing this would need to be created but I feel like it would add a lot to being able to understand the differences between the offerings.

 

[super_gt]

 

[mechsicko]

Pretty bummed they jacked the psu that much... I mean 180w psu definitely costs more than 90 but not that much more. Separately they're charging $150, pretty high for a 180w power brick with a 4 pin Molex. That's lame but understandable but them adding $130(!) to the cost when you get that -instead of the 90w version- and that's ridiculous. The price difference between 90 and 180w psu is like $50 or so with zero difference in logistics.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

5nm version sole existence is just mind game to trick customers to always opt for upgrade.

 

[Wilko Jones]

Going in to this, I was about to buy a CSW v2.5, so I don't mind getting the 8nm kit for about $70 less.

 

[Wilko Jones]

Pretty bummed they jacked the psu that much... I mean 180w psu definitely costs more than 90 but not that much more. Separately they're charging $150, pretty high for a 180w power brick with a 4 pin Molex. That's lame but understandable but them adding $130(!) to the cost when you get that -instead of the 90w version- and that's ridiculous. The price difference between 90 and 180w psu is like $50 or so with zero difference in logistics.

Profit and opportunity. Profit for Fanatec, opportunity for a competitor. Hopefully Simagic, TM, Logitech or whom ever makes something that undercuts the 8nm price point.

 

[TedBrosby-]

This could've been worse. They could've just had them the same internally, with the 8 Nm being "CSW DD" and 5 Nm being CSL DD and not give you the ability to upgrade. They decided to have a $130 savings for people who don't really want strong FFB but want the other benefits of a DD (speed, accuracy, reliability, details). If you know you'll go 8 Nm, you should just opt for the upgrade right away. It's still $479 for 8Nm DD. What other options are there under $750? Even the Simagic M10 is $650 and adding steering wheels will be way more expensive compared to Fanatec (QR for each wheel plus USB wheels in general are more expensive than ecosystem wheels).

Regarding the YouTube channels:
I find that lately I disagree with some people here. I like SRG for explaining mechanical components, but I have to be honest that I don't really align with him when it comes to driving feel. Lately his videos seem to focus less and less on driving feel, to the point that sometimes his driving thoughts is only 3 or 4 minutes and all he does is talk about what he did to make it feel the best compared to default settings, but not how it feels in general. He didn't even say whether or not SC2 was a better drive compared to the DD1/DD2, and for all the criticisms of his channel you all make, Will Ford at Boosted did definitely say that the SC2 was smoother and chose it for his daily driver. The closest we got to Barry choosing a wheelbase or giving feedback on comparatively how it feels, is that the VRS DD was "almost as smooth" as his Leo Bodnar Sim Steering. But he never compared the SC2 to the Leo Bodnar.
To be honest, I'm more looking forward to Boosted Media's review because he will actually tell us, straight up, whether it's smoother or as powerful as the Simagic M10 and whether the VRS is a better value because of the small $200-$250 price difference to get the VRS from the CSL DD with 180 Boost Kit.

 

[James Burton]

I shall be buying it, and my CSW 2.5 will be used in my other rig. I don't need ripped arms to drive, I don't need massive torque, I need it to be quiet, as my main rig is in the bedroom and the CSW fan keeps the wife awake.

I won't be buying it on any "YouTubers reviews" I have a mind of my own. I won't be buying the extra power supply either.

 

[Michael Krone]

I shall be buying it, and my CSW 2.5 will be used in my other rig. I don't need ripped arms to drive, I don't need massive torque, I need it to be quiet, as my main rig is in the bedroom and the CSW fan keeps the wife awake.

I won't be buying it on any "YouTubers reviews" I have a mind of my own. I won't be buying the extra power supply either.

Hang on, you can hear your CSW fan? You sure its not the plastic top vibrating?