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AIW troubles – laps recorded, but not lap times

Discussion in 'Bob's Track Builder' started by Sub, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. Sub


    (questions about the AIW functionality in BTB, not the external AIW program)

    I recently resurrected a track that I built for rFactor in BTB 0.5. and started working on it again. Everything’s been going fine, but I’ve been having a tough time getting the AIW file to work correctly. I can get AI to race around the track and laps to be counted, but I can’t seem to get track times to be recorded.

    After an entire day of trying different things and digging around the net for information, I’m left with no choice but to post some questions and see if anyone knows what I’m doing wrong. So here’s what I’m left wondering about:

    -When creating the AIW line, does it matter if track pieces that I’m appending to each other are merged together by just their end nodes or not? Some of the track pieces are joined together as a ‘T’ in the road and an end node is merged with a node in the middle of a piece of track.

    -Where do the Start, Finish and End markers need to sit in relation to the Pit (entrance/exit markers) and the Grid?

    -How does one go about attaching the end of the AIW lines (speedline/centerline) to the beginning of the track (creating the circuit loop). I’ve tried just laying the nodes at the end over the tops of the nodes at the beginning, but i’m not sure if that’s the right method or not.

    - I’ve just been overwriting the track in rFactor each time I export it – is their any further deleting of files I need to do to make sure I’ve got a clean slate?

    Aside from these questions, does my particular problem sound familiar to anyone? I’m really excited to finish building this track and polish it up, but I’m nervous about continuing on until I’m sure I can build the AIW file properly.

    Thanks VERY much for any help or advice.

  2. Try making a closed loop track which follows the other tracks (see the attachment), and merge it's nodes with the ones for the separate tracks. Then clear the existing driveline data, and then append the closed track to generate the new AIW. You can then delete the loop track.

    Attached Files:

  3. This could be the root of your problem. If it's supposed to be a closed circuit and you created it as an open-ended circuit, then the "fast path" will not close.

    If you used an open-ended KML file for a closed circuit (as I normally do), specify that it's a closed circuit anyways and BTB will complete the loop for you.

    If you created this manually in BTB (didn't import a KML), then your best bet is to retrace the main circuit as a closed circuit, then erase the bits of track that you have now duplicated, and finally link the terrain to the new main circuit.

    Start, Finish, and End markers can sit anywhere in relation to the pit entrance & exit. If the AI are not crossing the start/finish line because they go out on a practice lap and pit before crossing the start/finish line, there may be something else going on, so try a race. Are you, a human player, able to get a lap time?

    Can you post a simplified screenshot of the top view and then we can all confirm what's going on?

    Overwriting the folder each time you export works great, with the "clear folder" option checked. Shouldn't need anything more.
    Seems like R Soul and I are thinking on the same lines. His answer is probably a quicker fix.
  4. Sub


    Yes! That is absolutely freaking brilliant and i never would've thought of it. I'm going to put on a pot of coffee right now and build a circuit over the top the existing track.

    But first, to answer some of Emery's questions. As a human player, i'm not able to get a lap time. The fact that it's able to register a lap and that the AI can race around it successfully is encouraging, but i guess that doesn't mean it's going to work right in terms of registering lap times.

    Here's a top down of a version i've been hacking away at to see what works. It's a bit like inviting someone into a dirty home, but i'm going to be brave. :veryhappy: The closeup shot is the area where most of these disjointed pieces are coming together. I should also point out, this is about half of the track i'm intending to build. I put in a joiner piece at a point where it could most easily loop back on itself, just so i could figure out the AIW end of things. Painful as it's been, i'm glad i'm getting this out of the way.

    Attached Files:

  5. Sub


    And thanks for the help guys! I'm first trying R Soul's approach with the hope that i won't have to delete the underlying track and then reattach the terrain to get the desired result. If that doesn't work, then i'm taking Emery's suggestion. Here we go...
  6. Wow, I see why you took your approach in the first place. There's probably a trick or two to deal with the square corners, like using cardinals instead of splines. I haven't tried making a street circuit, so haven't explored the options for square corners.

    Another thought is you could trace the main route with a very narrow track, mark it as Active, but invisible. Good luck and let us know what works out!
  7. You don't even have to do that, just create a circle and append the aiw line to that, then drag it across to the main track, all you need is a closed loop. Spread it out, 'ctrl + left click' to add nodes, move adjust, etc, and bob's your uncle. a 5-10 minute job.
  8. Sub


    Well - i've tried the above suggested approaches today, and did a lot of 'fiddling' to see if i could make it all as simple as possible, but i'm still having no luck. I fear my track may have something left over in it from BTB 0.5 that's giving me trouble... It might even be that the way i built the track and terrain the first time around was screwy enough to corrupt something integral in the track. It was my first attempt at track building and i'm sure i've got some less-than-optimal design issues going on.

    I'll give mianiak's more simple approach a try another day, but i'm completely beat down at this point.

    Thanks for the help so far guys - hopefully i'll get it sooner or later.
  9. I recently had some AIW trouble (the thing wouldn't update for some reason) so I saved it as a new project and exported to a new track name, and it was fixed.
  10. Sub


    Oooo - now there's something i haven't tried yet. The very first part of this track i built in one of the .4 versions of BTB and had to update it to the .5 restructuring when that came out. So if ever there was a candidate for something old and heinous sticking around, it's this track. I'll see if saving it with a different name in a different folder and then building the AIW makes any difference. Well... once i've finished my day at work, that is. :D
  11. Sub


    Bah! Saving it out as a different track in BTB and exporting it with a different name hasn't worked either. I think i'm down to the process of elimination. Here's how i'm thinking of going about it:

    • First, i'll make a very simple circuit with only some terrain around it, but with a similar pit/garage/start/finish scheme as i've got in my primary track. If i can get that to work right, then i'll know it's not some weird save issue with Windows 7 and not something wrong with my general approach. I'll then feel like it's worth trying to fix the old track.
    • Next i'll try removing all of the objects from the track and see if maybe one of the old models i was using is freaking things out. I've noticed that the move from BTB 0.5 to the new version has left me with some missing walls and roofs on house models and some 2 dimensional trees. Maybe something there is screwy.
    • If that doesn't tell me anything, i'll try removing all of the old terrain and adding new stuff. While figuring out how to create the terrain i'm sure i broke every rule in the book at some point or another. I've also noticed that there were some major improvements to how terrain gets handled in BTB, so it seems entirely possible that some weird terrain anchors under the old track have confused the AIW situation. I dont' know, i'm just guessing here.
    • I really don't want to delete any of my walls, but that will be the next thing i try. If nothing above allows me to create a functional AIW file, i'll start deleting any walls that look like they might be troublesome. I built a lot of sidewalks along the way and i have a feeling some of the colliding polys could be creating issues.
    • If none of that works, i'll delete everything except for the newly built circuit track itself and then try saving just that to a new file. If i can build terrain around it and get a functional AIW file, i guess that's where i'll be at. It'll be some painful work rebuilding things, but at least i've got a good template for it.
    So that's the plan. Thanks again for your help people! All your suggestions seemed smart and totally reasonable - it's my old track that's the unreasonable bastard here. *shakes fist* I'll let you all know how it goes.
  12. Sub


    So here's a follow-up:

    It doesn't matter how simple i make it, what i delete from the track or how i position timing gates and such, it absolutely will not register lap times. The fact that i pieced it together (instead of starting with a closed circuit design) in an older version of BTB seems to have completely broken the project's ability to register lap times.

    At this point, i've completely given up on that version of the track and started rebuilding it as a new project. I can build it without the noobishness and in such a way that i know it will work right when i'm finished. A couple take-away items that might be worthwhile to others:

    - Start your track with a closed circuit - don't piece it together and hope it'll work right later. That isn't to say it won't, but it's risky and you could lose a lot of work.

    - Finish your track in the same version of BTB that you started it in. This isn't to say that a modern version won't update your track correctly, but again, it's risky and you stand the chance of having to start over.

    - When building a new track with a closed circuit - even if you don't know exactly how it's going to go yet, you can set up a mock version of pits and some minimal terrain to get your AIW up and running early on. Back up your project at every point where you know that to be working properly. This way, there won't be a point where you've got a finished track and the AIW is giving you nightmares and crapping on your scene.

    I think that's it for now. Thanks to the people in this thread who tried to help. Those were some great ideas and i'm sure any one of them would have worked had the track not been integrally flawed.
  13. Kris Vickers

    Kris Vickers
    Hardware Staff

    I think maybe if you can get hold of concurrent version of BTB from the version you made your track with, you might stand a chance.

    As it seems if you upgrade only 1 level, there are no (or not many) problems. Your trying to go from v0.5 to v0.8, where i think too much has changed for it to work.

    Could you, somehow, save your work in v0.4.2.3 format, as v0.8 has the ability (i presume, as its in the menu) to open projects from that version.

    Hope this hasn`t disheartened you too much, as that project looked to be an interesting one.
  14. Why somebody works with an old BTB version that not resolve the AI as new version?
    Is not good idea help cracked versions users.
    Hope this were not the case
  15. Sub


    That makes sense. I think the only older version i still have is a version of .5 and i'm not sure if the license would still work with it or not. That's the one i last saved the project out of anyway, so i'd need something between that and the new one.

    Either way, it's no big deal at this point. I'm actually excited to go back and build this track right from the ground up. The new additions to BTB will be fun to explore along the way and i can already tell it'll be much easier.

    And thanks for the encouragement on the track! It's a rebuild of an old Motor City Online track with an addition that makes it a full circuit (the original was just 'down and back'). It's one of my all time favorite tracks to race on and i'm hopeful that i can bring it back to life. We'll see how the next couple months go.

    If i'm understanding this correctly, you think that i might be using a hacked version of BTB because i built a track using an older version? A little more than a year ago, i purchased one of the .4 versions of BTB. I soon upgraded it to 5 and managed to get about half way through a track before i didn't have time to work on it any more. A few weeks ago, i downloaded the most recent, non-beta version, and renewed my license. The old track i built is busted in the new version of BTB - i didn't steal the product. That's some interesting logic you've got there.
  16. Do you save your work as 4 Version? in the new BTB, reopen and save again?