AI and rumblestrip problems

[Dethrone1427]

Does anyone know how a track can be edited, be it with the TDF file, or in the track editing software, its just im having issues with certain tracks i've ported to AMS and the tracks are brilliant running by myself, yet as soon as i add any AI cars it soon turns into destruction derby with cars taking over and flipping over because of relatively small (looking) rumble strips...any ideas where i would even begin to look to edit??

 

[morsify]

Search for Guitarmans AIW CamEdit tool, I think you'll still find it at rFactorCentral.
Read the basic instructions, there's a couple of documents included, then you should be able to edit the bends that are causing problems, just move the fastline away from the curbs slightly.
It takes a lot of trial and error & practice to use the tool but it is definitely worth it.

After a bit of practice you will learn to move the line out slightly, and if necessary you can also move the cut line, so that the AI take a wider line and are no longer allowed to stray too far onto the curb. (but not too far with the cut lines or you yourself will be penalised for cutting the corner if you cross the curb too much)

Just be sure to back up your AIW first and practice on a copy!

 

[Marc Collins]

Search for Guitarmans AIW CamEdit tool, I think you'll still find it at rFactorCentral.
Read the basic instructions, there's a couple of documents included, then you should be able to edit the bends that are causing problems, just move the fastline away from the curbs slightly.
It takes a lot of trial and error & practice to use the tool but it is definitely worth it.

After a bit of practice you will learn to move the line out slightly, and if necessary you can also move the cut line, so that the AI take a wider line and are no longer allowed to stray to far onto the curb. (but not too far with the cut lines or you yourself will be penalised for cutting the corner if you cross the curb too much)

Just be sure to back up your AIW first and practice on a copy!

That's usually done for bigger curbs that the AI's simplified physics can't handle properly. If they are flat rumble strips, it'd likely because the underside of the cars are "catching" on some stray (improper) elements in the rumble strips. Rumble strips may be a normal part of the racing line, so if you move the AI away, you will then give the human an unrealistic advantage. I assume if @Dethrone1427 cares enough to ask this, he wants realistic AI as a result. Even if he does not and moves the AI line, these incidents will still occur when an AI is pushed off the racing line, which now happily happens fairly frequently with the new AI programming.

 

[Dethrone1427]

Ok thanks guys, I've got that cam editing tool from back in my RF editing days so I'm sure I'll be able to pick up the AI side of things. However if I did go down the underside of things route, where is this part of the problem found? Like where in the HDV file so I find this? It's the suspension too soft or too low? Am I editing the PM file or HDV?

 

[morsify]

I must admit I tend to always think about it from the formula/open wheel car point of view as that's what I prefer to drive, so it works pretty well for me to adjust the lines so that both AI and I stay off troublesome curbs, but that may not suit other kinds of cars so well.

But yes, it depends on many things, the type of car, the type of curb, how good the AI line and cut lines are, grip levels...
But if cars are flipping regularly on the same curb, then the realism is already gone - not only is it wrong for this to be happening , more importantly any consistency in AI laptimes is destroyed.

Careful adjustment of the line so that they just avoid the curb, will more often than not improve the AI speed through that turn and produce better consistency, but it's up to Dethrone to make the call depending on the particular curb and the track/car combo and how much he is willing or able to do.

 

[morsify]

Ok thanks guys, I've got that cam editing tool from back in my RF editing days so I'm sure I'll be able to pick up the AI side of things. However if I did go down the underside of things route, where is this part of the problem found? Like where in the HDV file so I find this? It's the suspension too soft or too low? Am I editing the PM file or HDV?

Don't know about this sorry. If I like the car and it's physics, I tend not to mess with it too much.
Remember that changing the car characteristics will affect it at every other bend and every other circuit, it might even spoil the handling of the car.
So to me, if the car is good and enjoyable to drive plus the AI are good on other tracks, then problem lies with the track - the individual curb or the racing line. But that's just what works for me, not necessarily the only way.

 

[Gringo]

On a mod car you have a chance to improve the issue by reducing "AIMinPassesPerTick=" value that should be found in the HDV. The old rF default was 3 in most cars... I have noticed that this number is often increased to very high values (without any noticeable benefit that I could measure).

I think that since AMS has increased the physics update frequency this variable is a big negative on the AI suspension rates and overall performance.

Try setting this value to 1.0 and see if that helps.

Another important AI variable is the "AIAimSpeedsPerWP"... if your mod AI is cutting the corners too much and riding up on the curbs it is because the AI is "looking to far ahead" for the AI path. You can increase the value of these numbers to help them take a better line. What I do is measure the apex speed that the AI have in the slower corners and I setup the AIAimSpeedsPerWP so that they look 2-3 way-points ahead then spread out the remaining values upto about 2/3 of the cars maximum speed.

On the AIW editing side of things a very tiny change in the AI line will often solve the roll over issue for a given mod car AI / 3d curb... sometimes you can affect when the car turns into the corner (a bit later normally) by moving the fast line just a bit over a few way-points at the corner entry.

This way the overall speed of the AI will not be affect too much and the manual edits are easier to manage.

 

[Dethrone1427]

Ok thanks guys, i was swinging more towards HDV editng, but i take your point on Keith, its the EEC mod, on a circuit i found recently Barner-Wood. Its actually i nice looking track, quite small, but it looks a nice standard of track, apart from a horrible dated looking bridge in it!! I've been spoilt somewhat by Patrick and Gringo's work!! I'll take a look with the cam edit software and try and suss out the ai line side of things, which if i do suss that out will be a god send, there are SO many circuits i want to alter and get the lines right, such as Thermalito, i LOVE that circuit from RF days - but then the AI smashes into all the corners around the bridge section, such a shame as im sure its a tiny fix!! Thanks again all

 

[Dethrone1427]

Wow, its like another language!! I might look at the HDV because im looking through all the dev docs and its telling me i need to run RF/AMS in windowed mode to re-write the track lines and all sorts of other stuff, i tried looking with the CAM editor and i dont even know what point im looking at to edit, its completely different to editing camera positions, which im completely au fait with...

 

[Marco Dakic]

You should try to check the 3D Model of the Strips, these can cause the problem too, maybe there are invisible heights/walls etc,