Ford Italia Unveils the Monza W-Track for Assetto Corsa

LMGiorni said:

So is logical that even if there is a gap to enter, the competition is very fierce and man in comparison is a better athlete overall. That is quite clear in the top motorsport as F1 with the amount of G forces you have to tolerate not to mention the physical resistance and quick reflexes needed to be nearly competitive.

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Gender does not determine whom is better overall, you can't take the current gatekept environment and prove that women are worse when they haven't gotten a a fair and equal shot at competing.

Counter point, it matters not what sex or gender you have if you want to flight a fighter yet, the aptitude and skills to resist G-forces and fly these complex machines has way more to do with the individual then with whatever bits they are born.

Anyway, I could waffle on for hours about how women are being disadvantaged in society in general and how destructive that is.

Casper de Wit said:

Gender does not determine whom is better overall, you can't take the current gatekept environment and prove that women are worse when they haven't gotten a a fair and equal shot at competing.

Counter point, it matters not what sex or gender you have if you want to flight a fighter yet, the aptitude and skills to resist G-forces and fly these complex machines has way more to do with the individual then with whatever bits they are born.

Anyway, I could waffle on for hours about how women are being disadvantaged in society in general and how destructive that is.

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I can assure you that it's not the case.
Even if there is a woman that could be better than one of the current F1 drivers out there, that also applies for men.
Women are different from men, they are way better suited for a variety of sports and employments than men, as clearly is the opposite way. That statement as many things in life is not absolute, but it's the general statement you can get through observation.

LMGiorni said:

I can assure you that it's not the case.
Even if there is a woman that could be better than one of the current F1 drivers out there, that also applies for men.
Women are different from men, they are way better suited for a variety of sports and employments than men, as clearly is the opposite way. That statement as many things in life is not absolute, but it's the general statement you can get through observation.

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But if you base those observations on current employments for example then you are not taking existing bias into account, garbage in is garbage out for your results. There's a literal metric ton of sociology studies that prove my point, medicine is a prime example off this. But I can highly recommend the book "Invisible Women" to give you a primer of how the world is build around men.

LMGiorni said:

If a woman is as fast and consistent as Senna, Schumacher, Hakkinen, Lauda, etc ... you think a team in any category in motorsport would doubt in getting a seat for her?

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Of course they would.

But they wouldn't come as far because sponsors and team owners in the junior series would always prefer a guy because "women just aren't made for racing cars".

Not necessarily because they're sexist and really believe that, but because if that girl turns out to be a bad choice, people will blame them because they chose a girl.

Happy International Women's Day, everyone! And regardless of what day it is or what Assetto Corsa mod is released... I hope you are always respectful and empathetic to the women in your life around you, listen to their experiences, try to put yourself "in their shoes", avoid promoting stereotypes, and reflect on possible structural barriers in society.

Casper de Wit said:

But if you base those observations on current employments for example then you are not taking existing bias into account, garbage in is garbage out for your results. There's a literal metric ton of sociology studies that prove my point, medicine is a prime example off this. But I can highly recommend the book "Invisible Women" to give you a primer of how the world is build around men.

Invisible Women | Caroline Criado Perez

Imagine a world where your phone is too big for your hand, where your doctor prescribes a drug that is wrong for your body, where in a car accident you…

carolinecriadoperez.com

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Yeah, sure! Also in education there are a lot more women in the hole world being professor, teacher for kinder, first schooling than at University level. And that my friend is by personal choice. And in medicine, science, engineering there is not that much woman over man. So if there is an open position for sure it will be statistically assigned to a man instead of a woman, not because of whatever sexual issue you think society as a hole has, but because there are not many women that apply. And as the today any field is getting more and more competitive, the breach will in many workspaces be inclined logically towards man and in others towards woman.
Many men are virtual racing drivers because they could not have a real opportunity to be a driver in reality, that would make them a victim if I compare them to a woman that already did. But that is not the case, there are a multiplicity of factors that are involved in having any opportunity to become a racing driver. There are way too few spots in the world to be filled by almost an infinite amount of people trying to get into, and they are in more than 90% men.
And to close up: there are more men left out of the sport than women left out of opportunity.

smeisinger said:

Of course they would.

But they wouldn't come as far because sponsors and team owners in the junior series would always prefer a guy because "women just aren't made for racing cars".

Not necessarily because they're sexist and really believe that, but because if that girl turns out to be a bad choice, people will blame them because they chose a girl.

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Not only they would give her that seat, they will squish every opportunity to call out loud that she is the best, that she is a woman that can race the best men drivers in the world, almost like they did with Hamilton with the black card but worst.

I wish they would have turned turn 1 into the word woman, make Monza turn 1 even harder in public lobbies.

Also, surprisingly there's a few incels on here.
Stop hating women, guys.

mod-edit: removed

more woke facepalm moments...

In case you don't know much about Lella Lombardi, watch this linked video. Seems like a great person.

Lella Lombardi

Racing seats should be earned by skills and talents, not just because what your sex is.
I think these women racing initiatives will just further segregate female drivers from males drivers,
making people think female drivers need special help to prove their worth in motorsport.

It's no good, the organizers are using females to earn more exposure & profits, plus they may make people look down upon female drivers. The organizers should probably stop these initiatives and think of some alternatives that can truly help drivers who are talented but are cash-strapped to make it to a higher level in motorsport.

re: Danica Patrick. I always wondered why she seemed her best at Superspeedways. She has led laps during the Indy 500, Qualified well there usually. At Daytona & Talladega she also, if memory serves, outperformed her averages at the other tracks. I came to the conclusion that, especially at Indy, her lower center of gravity may have contributed an EVER so slight advantage. Women carry more weight closer to their hips than men, whose broad shoulders & chest mass have some differences from women. So at Indy, the shorter, often lighter frame of a woman 'MAY' be an advantage. (yes I'm aware there are many Jockey sized men who excel as race drivers) The difference between 228mph and 227mph can be attributed to very tiny differences between cars and drivers. Add to that, in car camera shots show Danica appeared to have very steady hands, so very little speed was scrubbed off due to minute oscillations of the front wheels. It may be just that, hands...who knows.

As far as which car to drive that insane twisty bit....the Palatov D4 from rF2 comes to mind.

I dont think i've seen women be explicitly excluded from the sport, they just aren't interested enough in the sport to have racers that will shoot for the F1. The few women racers that exist are REALLY good already and i dont think that artificially pushing them for higher spots is healthy for their career.

I do enjoy the concept of the track, however. And more than "showing how hard it is to be a woman in the sport" i think that finally driving this track on a Miata will be fun.

As a previous image posted in this thread illustrates so well, car racing is natural to men, just as fashion and dolls are natural to women. The integration of women into this environment is difficult because it is an unnatural movement.
A reverse example, when men want to evolve in an environment fevorable to women for example cosmetics, fashion etc, the majority will need to become effeminate for example. A virile and hetero man in a world full of innocent and vulnerable women would be borderline dangerous.

Another angle of view.
I may be wrong but before covid and the explosion of sim racing, there were only men in this business. Women didn't care about sim racing, they would rather play FPS, etc. Now I see a lot of female youtubers etc, doing sim racing or converting to sim racing. I feel a wave of opportunism disguised as feminism. It may be because of the job crisis or a market saturation in their field of work, but women are fighting more and more to get into fields where they weren't before.

I'm fine with women in motorsports and would like to see more women be interested in motorsports. However the lack of opportunites part irks me. If you look at all women who have done at lower levels than f1 and look at their results and then look at what kind of opportunities they have got in F1 there is no sign of lack of opportunities at all. On the contrary. It seems there are opportunities and benefits being a female race driver.

Here is a list of female drivers of last 20 years with their race finish in F3 or in their series before f1 and the f1 role they got, or didn't. Only drivers are listed who did more than handful of races.

Sophia Flörsch - F3 22nd - no f1 role
Jamie Chadwick - British F3 8th - no f1 role
Tatiana Calderon - F3 27th - Alfa Romeo F1 development and test driver 2018-2020
Susie Wolff - 18th in DTM - Williams f1 development driver, drove in official F1 practice session
María de Villota - superleague 15th, 2 races - Marussia f1 test driver
Carmen Jordá - GP3 29th - F1 renault and lotus test driver, did not drive the car tho

Those are the names I can remember. I think it is a fact that there are not many women racing. But to me it also seems it is a fact that those who are racing seem to get much better opportunities than their male counterparts. Just look at previous GP3 champions and F3 champions. Out of those men fewer got any kind of F1 roles than these women who finished constantly at the back of the field.

That being said there are also quite a few men who have bought their way into f1 so maybe for someone that it evens out. Some men get to f1 because their parents are rich and some women get into f1 roles because they are women. Motorsports is about money after all. And being a female sells. Just look at what happened in nascar.

And before I get shouted at. The way I see it a woman should be about as fast as man in a race car. There are no physical or mental limitations. But at the same time there is no woman at the moment who is fast enough to be in f1. And no. Being 8th in british F3 is not fast enough for f1.

Last month we had an endurance race of 10 hours in nurburgring in ACC in RCI, my team of medium slow guyz was on spilt 3... there where 2 teams with women drivers, the team that won on split 3 was all female ( I hope unless its 3 fat dudes mocking the rest of us ) and they where kicking ass like there was no tomorrow ... almost 1 sec faster then the team that ended in second place !


PS: My mother was a real race driver in the 70s here in portugal. on a fun class with only Citroens called pop cross in dirt tracks.

Racing has long been an elitist sport...

From the rich owners and sponsors to the majority of white males in the cars...

It's a perfect representation of just how far the world really has to go to allow true freedom to the average person who isn't white or classified as a male or lives in poverty and unable to even consider racing as a kid...

This is a great representation for one of the other genders... But far more work is needed in all areas of the barriers that race, gender and wealth that are exist in motorsports and in general due to the ideals of the few that benifit from the current mess...

As for the track itself could be a lot of fun and will force very interesting set up choices...

smeisinger said:

Of course they would.

But they wouldn't come as far because sponsors and team owners in the junior series would always prefer a guy because "women just aren't made for racing cars".

Not necessarily because they're sexist and really believe that, but because if that girl turns out to be a bad choice, people will blame them because they chose a girl.

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I disagree. TO be the sponsor of the first F1 female world champ is a historical event, sponsors and even teams are trying very hard to make that happen. Have you seen the latest Mercedes car reveal interview? Their junior academy had young female drivers too. The system is not against women drivers, in fact they are FOR women drivers. I guarantee you if you had a carbon copy of george russell with equal skills but is female in contention of that mercedes seat at that time, Mercedes would have given the female version of george russell the seat instead. It is a massive PR opportunity and they would 100% take it. Such a caliber of female driver in F1 has just not appeared yet, but we'll see.

Women are not banned from racing in F1 or any other motorsports series as far as I'm aware, however, men are banned from racing in some women-only racing series.

Let me repeat that for anyone who doesn't understand...Women are NOT banned from racing series that men participate in yet there are racing series which women participate in where men ARE banned.

In other words, there is no sexism nor discrimination nor prejudice towards women but there is sexism / discrimination / prejudice towards men, and on purpose "by design" too (by deliberately not allowing men to participate).

So, in the end, it's the men who are on the receiving end of sexism or discrimination or prejudice or whatever you want to call it, not women.

andrewaugust93 said:

I guarantee you if you had a carbon copy of george russell with equal skills but is female in contention of that mercedes seat at that time, Mercedes would have given the female version of george russell the seat instead.

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Exactly! Of course! Even besides PR, as long as your car / team / driver wins or is as good as possible, no one cares what sort of sexual organ or chromosomes the person has.