Credibility for Montoya and VirtualR - ZERO

[Hampus Andersson]

That site is one big joke now..

At first when he said he would join PCARS, it was bad enough to run a news site and be affiliated with a game you are reviewing but now he made this article....

And made it sound like it was specific to iRacing.

Be prepared for some interesting reading, the moderator is also an idiot and replies to every single negative post about the subject despite Kunoz and other well-established sim creators say that the issue is found in all the sims.

http://www.virtualr.net/iracing-com-magic-save-exploit-causes-controversy#disqus_thread

 

[Xosé Estrada]

What on earth does this have to with iRacing besides a peripheral mention of the right your car using both feet "hack" (personally, never been able to replicate it, must take much practice - I prefer not to spin my car - it's generally faster that way).
Yoeri, can you launch this thread into a black hole somewhere?

I think it's iRacing related to be honest, in fact talks about iRacing related to others Sims, and what we can expect from them.

It is also healthy, in a momment where almost all the websites are owned by a sim developer, to have a place to talk freely (while respecting the rules) about what happens in the community. Simracing community is more than textures and setups, its also people, and I don't feel the need to censor everything or hide every polemics. I know other fellow simracers disagree, but as I said before, simracing world is like a country without free press.

Back to topic, and posting as mere user, I think Virtual R did this with two proposes.

The first one was show a competitor as a bad product, with a terrible bug that makes physics unrealistic, using comments from the iRacing forums as excuse. The intentions and the bias of it were evident, but that doesn't matter because the second reason...

Huge exposure. The traffic and the hits on vR this week had to be four times the normal, and from that people, many will remain as readers... and they will get a lot of news about how good pCARS is.

Was a fantastic move in both ways.

I respect Virtual R a lot, they were bringing independent news to the community for years so they really deserved this opportunity to work for pCARS, but obviously it has its downsides, nothing is perfect.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

and do you believe that rd news are neutral?

Do you believe they are not?

They are as neutral as the person writing each individual one, as we don't have an editorial line.

It's the community sending them, you can as well if you push the send news button, we only ask for good content, not support to our products, because we don't have any.

This also makes us be far of the professionality VR has in its FrontPage, but we are a different concept of simracing news site, we provide thousands of readers to the community members that want to write for a broader audience than a small blog or personal website.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

and do you believe that rd news are neutral?

You have just made the joke of the day, hahaha.

Tell us please on who´s payroll are we ? Then at least I know where I can send the bill to, so enlighten me with your wisdom.

 

[martinsalat]

thanks for your answer xose and let me know how the news work here.i just see that rd missed the pagani and ford licensing and have no news about pcars about more than a month and think bad about it,sorry for that. i own every sim since more than 13 years and i like the most of them.i also have a big respect for all the developers the working hard and risk allot(very high development cost),for our fun.i also believe that every developer have a big respect to the other.so i don't believe that montoya takes the article for a tactic.but this is just my option.its no secret that i like the pcars protect most in the moment.(i am more the optical type).but i also enjoy rf2, iracing,gsc,and some outers.

 

[martinsalat]

You have just made the joke of the day, hahaha.

Tell us please on who´s payroll are we ? Then at least I know where I can send the bill to, so enlighten me with your wisdom.
.

my payroll comes from musikkoncept. its an opera production company for 2 john malkovich operas . sorry that i misinterpreted your pcars news silence.from time to time i get really sick for this simracing virus.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Other developers are often sending press releases or news tips. Haven't heard anything from SMS since day one when Shift came out.

Just like anybody else they can actually submit their own articles if they wish, You can do this as well.

When it meets the criteria listed we happily publish it for you regardless if its pCARS or news about any other form of racing.

How neutral can it be eh ?

 

[martinsalat]

sorry it just had a bad taste for me

 

[Josh Barton]

This thread has somehow remained civil, I was expecting a flame war but fortunatly it hasnt gotten to that stage yet lol.

On the main issue, I do feel that the article was unfair in singling out iRacing with a physics bug that has been replicated in all sim racing games. However, I dont think it was entirely intentional, I just think he didnt do nearly enough research before posting the article and the fallout was deserved because of this. I just went and had a go at replicating the bug, and found that I could actually do it pretty well in iRacing, rfactor and a lesser exent Race07 (I tried F1 in all instances). Its not particularly useful, because you dont want to be spinning in the first place, and certainly doesnt make it any faster.

As for the neutrality of RD, its probably the most balanced community out there. Sure, theres going to be members who are biased one way or another but thats why we have subforums and different sections. And because the news reporting is done by members from all of these different sub communities it is gareenteed to be completely neutral in the amount of coverage each game gets. Thats why RD has been so successful all these years

 

[Lars Brugman]

Is this the issues which happends in sims? Then RBR should change the physics on their car too as they are clearly not realistic.

 

[Jan Roman]

Heh, an interesting debate. I think these things are overrated, It is very much like any other game bug (and I am not discussing whether it is a bug or it isn't). If it's a serious problem, it'll get fixed soon. If it is realistic, it'll stay as it is and we'll have to change our minds.

It's a strange movement, I agree (it's visible at the Centripetal circuit), but it is a game exploit or a bug, nothing lethal, just too big overreaction by simracing community.

 

[Nathan Robinson]

it is what it is to me. i could care less either way. we are all going to judge sims from our own experiences with them and if this makes you dislike iracing enough to ignore the sim, so be it. i had a 0x contact with a wal in the sr8 over the weekend and it meatballed me with 8 minutes of repair. this was a minor tap that even a fragile open wheeler would have survived so a little unrealistic. iracing has many bugs but i still drive it because it delivers some fantastic racing regardless of the random issues

 

[zehnder.eric]

CNN isn't neutral anymore. BBC isn't neutral. Would you really expect a hobbyist site like VirtualR to be some bastion of neutrality to the sim community? The community at VirtualR has become extremely nasty lately as if a positive article about Assetto Corsa means that rFactor 2 sucks or an article about Project CARS means that GTR3 sucks. If an editor gets paid to talk about Project CARS simply stop looking at his Project CARS posts. If you disagree with his entire site then stop visiting and trolling it.

If the community would just accept all sims' right to exist instead of the Israel vs. Palestine thing we've got going on everything would be fine.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

That´s not the same thing. VirtualR was once completely unbiased.
Recent moves shows this isn´t the case anymore, so their credibility for making reviews or posting other stuff about other games (like this one) is completely gone.

To me this would be like seeing an Audi review from BMW.

 

[Josh Barton]

In my opinion not all websites have to be unbiased. Thats why we have all these different communities on the web because as a whole they will tend to balance themselves out. However, for a website such as VirtualR to continue to claim they are completley unbiased is really what is wrong.

"As usual, VirtualR took a neutral stance on the issue as the idea was to let you, the reader, decide on how serious the issue is using a video provided that shows the problem in effect."

To be neutral on a "bug" present in most, if not all, high end simulation racing games would require not to single out a particular title. I have a feeling they no longer know what neutral actually means.

 

[Carl Abrams II]

I'm glad Lars posted a video. I seen this "HAX debate" on VirtualR, and the only thing I thought was "what's the debate?"

Does mashing the brakes save a slide on iRacing? Yup, sure does. The thing is, it happens in real life! I've done it personally (IRL) a few times and I see it in NASCAR times beyond mention. Slide, lock the wheels, the rotation decelerates, stops, then reverses towards straight. Let off the brakes, try to catch it, and if you overcorrect, back on the brakes, rotation decelerates...etc until you save it or come to a rest. It won't save a spin when your looping round and round, but it'll save a slide. It's not HAX, it's physics. If you want to waste an hour, you could find 50 YouTube videos of real life racing showing this happen time and again.

 

[Greg Carr]

It's not HAX, it's physics. If you want to waste an hour, you could find 50 YouTube videos of real life racing showing this happen time and again.

What about mashing the gas while you are sliding along with the brakes? Yes I believe you are right that just the brakes alone will stop a slide but the "HAX" is using full throttle as well.

 

[Carl Abrams II]

Yeah Greg, that part is, of course, not true to life. I guess I just don't see the big deal. It doesn't make you better, and it certainly doesn't make you faster. It seems the worst it does is keep a guy from piling the wall and ending his (and possibly other's) race. Sure, it should be fixed, but controversy? El oh el. The "qualifying burnouts" at Talledega were worse than this two footed exploding throttle slide save HAX technique. Those could actually decide a winner.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Agree with Carl here, really the only "hax" this is, is that it allows you a stronger chance of not binning the car. But that´s all it does, it won´t take you 5mph faster around a corner or stop you better. Just keeping you alive for a little bit longer

I personally have never done it nor do i want to learn it and be stuck with a bad habit.
I´ve lost the rear end of several cars and with some counter steering and throttle control i find most cars to be relatively easy to catch (although it´s a different ball game keeping the car in a slide)

 

[Ivo Simons]

On the main issue, I do feel that the article was unfair in singling out iRacing with a physics bug that has been replicated in all sim racing games. However, I dont think it was entirely intentional, I just think he didnt do nearly enough research before posting the article and the fallout was deserved because of this. I just went and had a go at replicating the bug, and found that I could actually do it pretty well in iRacing, rfactor and a lesser exent Race07 (I tried F1 in all instances). Its not particularly useful, because you dont want to be spinning in the first place, and certainly doesnt make it any faster.

Cant say anymore then this. That was my feeling also.
Think it blew up abit. I am also abit sceptical about VR intentions lately. But thats more related to pCars articles. Dont think this was just to bash iRacing and promote pCars.
I didnt knew about this hack either and there was alot of discussion going on in the community. And as VR is the main source of whats happening in the community he thought it was relevant news. But didnt knew (just like me) that every game has it. Thats why we saw the other article a day later.

 

[Yoeri Gijsen]

The funny thing is that if he'd not been on the payroll of pCARS he'd probably just been corrected by people pointing out this 'hax' is not limited to iRacing. Since he is on the payroll, people will start asking questions.