Who's guilt? Phowley or Petukhov?

[abi-sh]

Hello guys! Need help...

Petukhov suggests that Phowley started braking TOO early (about 230-220m) and Phowley is guilty.

Phowley suggests that Krasovskyi was too close to him and Phowley slowed down his car (not full brake! see the braking indicator). Krasovskyi slowed down too on 220m. Plus Phowley suggests that there were 30+ racers and he tried to brake more accurately than usual to avoid T1 crash.

Who's right? Thank in advance!!!

 

[Neilski]

Yeah, but it was the run up to T1, with a congested grid of other cars.
There is always going to be carnage if you are not careful.
Without T1 approaching it probably wouldn't have happened.
That was my point.

Ah, I misunderstood you.

It looks as if it starts just around the 200m mark, which is about right for slowing down on T1 L1 (if not earlier when at the back). On other laps with an empty road its usually around the 150m mark, so 200m+ is about right for the first lap.

More like 250m, I reckon, having looked again at the video. It's really hard braking and really early too. Petukhov might have reacted more quickly for sure, so a little blame is on him, and indeed the guy encroaching on Phowley didn't help, but such an extreme decision means that Phowley has the lion's share of the blame, for me. [Edit: by "extreme decision" I mean the excessively heavy braking]

My opinion is, that in ANY situation the guy behing is guilty.

You can't be serious, I guess. This is a racetrack...

 

[manu68]

Ah, I misunderstood you.
More like 250m, I reckon, having looked again at the video. It's really hard braking and really early too. Petukhov might have reacted more quickly for sure, so a little blame is on him, and indeed the guy encroaching on Phowley didn't help, but such an extreme decision means that Phowley has the lion's share of the blame, for me.
You can't be serious, I guess. This is a racetrack...

Well, I know that this is a racetrack.
But the guy in the front is not suppose to adapt his braking point to the guy behind.
He can choose his braking line too, even if a little surprising.
It may be surprising for the guy behind. , but after all he may have a problem on his car, ….
For sure, it is risky to brake a lot to soon. You can be hurt in the back, and it is what happened.
But we don't discuss about how risky it is to brake earlier. We discuss about who is responsible or not.
My opinion remains, that the guy behind have to be careful in any situation.

Of course I may be wrong. I personally try not to surprise the guy behind me.
I must say that in my case, I am more "victim" of divebombing by braking at normal distance, as "victim" of collision after braking too soon.
(But It seems that for some guys, normal guys are always Breaking too soon. They expect us to brake a lot too late, in order to leave the track and make them the path free !!)

Maybe there is somewhere a reglement which make braking at "normal" braking point compulsery, but I don't remember having read such thing anywhere. Gentlemen agreement for sure, but in case of collision, I think the guy behind should be guilty

 

[Neilski]

He can choose his braking line too, even if a little surprising.

Maybe there is somewhere a reglement which make braking at "normal" braking point compulsery, but I don't remember having read such thing anywhere. Gentlemen agreement for sure, but in case of collision, I think the guy behind should be guilty

...well, there's a night and day kind of difference between braking a little earlier than the alien behind you might normally brake (totally his fault if he hits you) and just slamming on the anchors in the middle of a long straight (totally your fault if someone then hits you).
The situation we're discussing in this thread is somewhere in between, and like all grey areas the views about blame aren't unanimous.
However, you said that "in ANY situation" the guy behind is at fault, which is why I felt you couldn't be serious.

 

[ThugUK]

No, being too careful also results in carnage. And no again, you do not brake at 200m, on the contrary, you can even brake later than 150m because you are not approaching it as fast as in a regular lap.

Dead right.
You can also slam the anchors on at 250m if the guy in front causes you too.
That's the risks of L1 and the approach to T1, anything can happen, and you should be prepared for that.

 

[eco2006]

I dont want to offend anyone, but why is this even worth opening a thread about it?

 

[ThugUK]

I dont want to offend anyone, but why is this even worth opening a thread about it?

Its probably not, but it has given a good cause for discussion.
There is a thread on the official ACC forums dedicated to who we think is to blame for incidents and is very popular as we all have opinions (some right, some wrong, but all our own), and its interesting to see peoples perspectives.
Those who have no interest in it don't bother replying, and just pass it by. I suggest that those who have no interest in it here do the same.

 

[Ralfnet]

Petukhov is faulty

Of course, in regular circumstances, the car ahead is not allowed to break earlier

But
Phowley was side by side with two Mercedes and the blue Mercedes was moving dangerously close, probably squeezed by the yellow Merc.
Phowley had reasonable reason to brake to avoid a possible contact with the blue Merc. Phowley is not faulty of braking early.

Petukhov was aware of the situation in front of him, the early braking of Phowley could be anticipated. Petukhov was definitly not watchful.

 

[TurboTomato]

No, being too careful also results in carnage. And no again, you do not brake at 200m, on the contrary, you can even brake later than 150m because you are not approaching it as fast as in a regular lap.

Lol. Spoken like a true pro who's never been in the pack at the start on a public server at Monza. I think pretty much everyone understands that the normal braking point is 150m (or thereabouts). But that's not what we're talking about here.

 

[Ferran122]

No, being too careful also results in carnage. And no again, you do not brake at 200m, on the contrary, you can even brake later than 150m because you are not approaching it as fast as in a regular lap.

IMO braking on the middle of the pack at first lap later than the usually is what creates a lot of risky situations.

For me, Phowley did the right thing. It's crazy how in most of Monza races you have to stop the car or go really slow in order to pass T1 clean.