What DLC do I own?

[norbs]

I'm going to apologise straight up, because I feel like this is a stupid question, but has me completely stumped.

I was licking my lips at some of the specials in the Summer Sale.

Saw the GT3 packs and thought I would grab them both. Then, I remembered, I was certain I already owned one.

I did what i normally do and looked at my library under RF2. It only has Lifetime Access to Online Services for rFactor 2 listed in the DLC.

So I thought I would add both GT3 packs and hope STEAM would tell me I already owned 1. Nope.

So, go ahead, make me feel like an idiot and explain how I tell what DLS I actually own.

 

[Marcel Offermans]

So the issue is the dev team want all DLC released in the same way and believe third party DLC cannot be released for a product.

At the time we made this decision, Valve allowed games to have around 10-20 DLC items typically. If you needed more, you had to put in a special request. So we got in touch with their development team and asked for advice on how to setup a system that could deal with hundreds or thousands of items. They clearly told us at the time that they would not support a game with that many DLC items and that the workshop was the way to go for that. You have to trust me on this one, this was not decided after one short conversation.

The fact that now, more than five years after the fact, things seem to have changed in Steam and having more DLC items no longer seems to be an issue, means we might not have made the same decisions again. That said, both DLC and workshop have positives and negatives and whilst we could have used both, I felt that would have made things even more confusing, because instead of adding one new way of getting content you were adding two. And don't forget we already had other ways, such as the download section here at RD and many other sites and leagues that were all using ways to share mods.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

@Marcel Offermans

One thing I would like though, is to have a small logo or something on my items in the inventory. Like the Reiza stuff has the Reiza logo, it would be nice to have some sort of logo, text or something on my GT cars to show what pack it goes under. It would make it a bit easier and faster when checking what I need to buy for events

 

[Marcel Offermans]

@Marcel Offermans

One thing I would like though, is to have a small logo or something on my items in the inventory. Like the Reiza stuff has the Reiza logo, it would be nice to have some sort of logo, text or something on my GT cars to show what pack it goes under. It would make it a bit easier and faster when checking what I need to buy for events

So packs (or bundles as Steam calls them) are a bit more dynamic than that in the sense that a specific item never exclusively belongs to a single bundle. You can make bundles. They consist of items, and you can discount them with some percentage (based of the sum of the individual items). So an item can be part of one bundle at one time, and part of another (or two other) at a later time.

That said, we are working on a system that for competitions will look at what's required for that competition, what you already own, and figure out the cheapest way for you to buy what is missing.

 

[DND]

In regards to having duplicate items. I see they cannot be traded or sold, but what about gifting to a friend?

 

[BertramRaven]

At the time we made this decision, Valve allowed games to have around 10-20 DLC items typically. If you needed more, you had to put in a special request. So we got in touch with their development team and asked for advice on how to setup a system that could deal with hundreds or thousands of items. They clearly told us at the time that they would not support a game with that many DLC items and that the workshop was the way to go for that. You have to trust me on this one, this was not decided after one short conversation.

The fact that now, more than five years after the fact, things seem to have changed in Steam and having more DLC items no longer seems to be an issue, means we might not have made the same decisions again. That said, both DLC and workshop have positives and negatives and whilst we could have used both, I felt that would have made things even more confusing, because instead of adding one new way of getting content you were adding two. And don't forget we already had other ways, such as the download section here at RD and many other sites and leagues that were all using ways to share mods.

Having now had the time to double check with Steam content creators and DLC documentation from twelve months before AND at the rf2 Steam launch AND looked at DLC for FS versions for the same period, I believe when your team first looked at this they either misinterpreted the Steam ecosystem OR thought the workshop model was a way to enforce a charging model which Steam did not support - note: I said charging model, not delivery and purchase model. As a result, customers have been paying the price ever since. So no, "trust me on this" is not enough when a simple check revealed what you are saying was not true at the time rf2 was released. As the limitations you describe were not in force during the periods stated, the situation is one of either ineptitude or an attempt to game customers - your choice.
Remember, you first stated Steam did not support the model (FALSE). Then you said you needed permission from Steam (TRUE, but they would have given it as the actual upper DLC limit is 32768 and has been since the DLC options added). Then you said Steam recommended the workshop sales model - which not once have I ever seen them recommend since 2008!

 

[Marcel Offermans]

Having now had the time to double check with Steam content creators and DLC documentation from twelve months before AND at the rf2 Steam launch AND looked at DLC for FS versions for the same period, I believe when your team first looked at this they either misinterpreted the Steam ecosystem OR thought the workshop model was a way to enforce a charging model which Steam did not support - note: I said charging model, not delivery and purchase model. As a result, customers have been paying the price ever since. So no, "trust me on this" is not enough when a simple check revealed what you are saying was not true at the time rf2 was released. As the limitations you describe were not in force during the periods stated, the situation is one of either ineptitude or an attempt to game customers - your choice.
Remember, you first stated Steam did not support the model (FALSE). Then you said you needed permission from Steam (TRUE, but they would have given it as the actual upper DLC limit is 32768 and has been since the DLC options added). Then you said Steam recommended the workshop sales model - which not once have I ever seen them recommend since 2008!

You are free to call me a liar. These are discussions we had with Valve 5 years ago and they actually recommended the system we are using today. For privacy and legal reasons I cannot literally quote those conversations here. I think I explained the situation as best and honest as possible. Case closed.

 

[AndrewBo]

@Marcel Offermans

 

[BertramRaven]

You are free to call me a liar. These are discussions we had with Valve 5 years ago and they actually recommended the system we are using today. For privacy and legal reasons I cannot literally quote those conversations here. I think I explained the situation as best and honest as possible. Case closed.

I don't expect you to start posting private emails, nor did I call you a liar. I have simply stated what was in force at the time and shown that in hindsight it was a mistake which few others made. It's a shame rf2 development has not moved to take advantage of new opportunities and technologies at a time when many more customers could have been brought into the eco-system. Fingers-crossed the veil will eventually drop from the eyes of S397 management. Even the beta-ui seems stuck in the early 2000s, using a UI which R3E is slowly ditching. I'd hate to think the choices for rf2's continued direction are linked to a bad choice when working with Steam at rf2's inception. Somehow, I think it is and likely always will be. So sad.

 

[Marcel Offermans]

Well, the fact that you believe that we are making mistakes is in the end just your viewpoint. You are obviously entitled to voicing that here, that's what a forum is for. So let's just agree to disagree.

 

[BertramRaven]

Well, the fact that you believe that we are making mistakes is in the end just your viewpoint. You are obviously entitled to voicing that here, that's what a forum is for. So let's just agree to disagree.

Agreed
I think you should know I'm often contracted to perform Technical Due Diligence for investors and corporations looking to take over another company , so it's my nature to jump on business model issues and legacy technical-debt in technology companies. My apologies for my apparently combative nature - I'm always in reality-check mode. On the plus side, I've been instrumental in raising the value and quality of every company I've ever pushed to be better (not by firing staff, but listening to them) , so my method does work to focus minds
Whether or not it comes across, I want the rF platform to succeed.