The Great Motion-Haptics Debate

[No Depth]

I barely need a keyboard, but did setup a velcro trackball mouse on my rig that works very well. Of course it currently isn't moving, so there are many things like this that I may have to look at closely if I decide to do the Box.

Yea things need to be locked down. I had 3D printed wind sim brackets for my fans, but after a couple crashes with d-box, they buckled at the weakest joint and I needed a sturdier mount option(admittedly that joint was really thin but removing that part of the mount and no issues since.)

I also have a 3D printed tiny box to hold my remote and the other stick shift handle. They are relatively loosely sitting in it and never have fallen out, which surprises me.



But still, you will need to ensure everything is locked firm. My first day, I didn’t realize the bolts in my wheel rim were a bit loose until testing vibrations caused them to loosen further and rattle in my hands. The haptics can be very powerful shockingly and I can’t even finish the test sweep before reaching to end it due to how insane it shakes.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Available on Thingiverse?

I've been trying to use Printable instead of Thingaverse these days.

Below are two versions of a mount that will bolt to profile using M5 or M6 bolts. They also use round velcro disks so you can remove it once every year or so to replace the single battery. That mouse really does go and go on a charge.

I could through bolt some Sorbothane. It might help.

Printables

www.printables.com

FYI, I have two of them running off the single Logitech diversity wireless hub. One is mounted to my rig and the other sits on the top of my entertainment rack so I can control the computer for room scale VR.

Since I have a level 1 Race Bass system, I'm not as worried about the haptics, although I would be very happy if DCS supported haptics since I still haven't setup Simshaker for Aviators yet.

I've got a 1 liter Camelbak on there. Of course I could always print something a lot beefier.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I was just thinking that I could add a Spring loaded pad that would hold the trackball in place. If I did it right it would lock to the side easily and then come back to hold the trackball in place.

 

[No Depth]

I think your water will be fine with that mount. I don't think you need to worry about it falling out, and I doubt you will run the motion that severely anyway. It's the little things that will be noticeable issues. I forgot also that my pedal faces and Sim 3d Pedal motors weren't as tightened as I thought and the D-Box informed me of that real quick with noticeable rattle noises from the loosening bolts, but no issues since I just tightened them up.

The ball mouse likely will need more secure mounting indeed.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The hand jack I got works very conveniently and isn't very large.

I would only need to lift it high enough to get the sliding pads under it so it should go much quicker than this in practice.

 

[NetLawMan]

Yea things need to be locked down. I had 3D printed wind sim brackets for my fans, but after a couple crashes with d-box, they buckled at the weakest joint and I needed a sturdier mount option(admittedly that joint was really thin but removing that part of the mount and no issues since.)

I also have a 3D printed tiny box to hold my remote and the other stick shift handle. They are relatively loosely sitting in it and never have fallen out, which surprises me.

View attachment 578715

But still, you will need to ensure everything is locked firm. My first day, I didn’t realize the bolts in my wheel rim were a bit loose until testing vibrations caused them to loosen further and rattle in my hands. The haptics can be very powerful shockingly and I can’t even finish the test sweep before reaching to end it due to how insane it shakes.

Indeed. This past week I did rig maintenance. Retightening bolts everywhere, moving to stronger corner gussets (3 inches tall and 4 bolts on each side) in key areas like where the back joins to the sides. I am thinking I will do this every 2-3 months.

 

[NetLawMan]

Speaking of haptics: last night I added the Sim3D shaker motors to my Huesinkveld pedals for TC and ABS. Very cool addition! I thought about adding haptic transducers, but did not want big huge things attached to otherwise great pedals. And also no need given their limited purpose. It really is nice, in my actual car, directly through the pedal is where I feel these are effects, so it’s a great match!

 

[NetLawMan]

The hand jack I got works very conveniently and isn't very large.

I would only need to lift it high enough to get the sliding pads under it so it should go much quicker than this in practice.

I was looking at that (the legit one that you have, not the copy cats I see only). Seems great, but I was worried it would be too much to use it on a rig somewhere around 250lbs. Looks like it works just fine

 

[RCHeliguy]

I was looking at that (the legit one that you have, not the copy cats I see only). Seems great, but I was worried it would be too much to use it on a rig somewhere around 250lbs. Looks like it works just fine

This tool feels very beefy and the effort involved to lift my rig is not bad at all.
It's rated for 330lbs, but since you should always have a couple legs supporting the rig, it shouldn't be lifting it all alone.

 

[No Depth]

Speaking of haptics: last night I added the Sim3D shaker motors to my Huesinkveld pedals for TC and ABS. Very cool addition! I thought about adding haptic transducers, but did not want big huge things attached to otherwise great pedals. And also no need given their limited purpose. It really is nice, in my actual car, directly through the pedal is where I feel these are effects, so it’s a great match!

Yea I love these too! They just add a different level of feel direct to your foot. Just a nice buzz for whatever effect.

Though I need to play with the effects a bit as I can often hear the electric whir if an effect is like about to turn on or is not at the point where it will twirl fast enough to buzz. Likely need to remove the linear power curve and make it more of an on/off vertical one.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Buzzing? I think I'd want something with a bit more presence.

 

[NetLawMan]

Buzzing? I think I'd want something with a bit more presence.

the effect isn't buzzing, the buzzing is just a byproduct. mine don't buzz

 

[NetLawMan]

Yea I love these too! They just add a different level of feel direct to your foot. Just a nice buzz for whatever effect.

Though I need to play with the effects a bit as I can often hear the electric whir if an effect is like about to turn on or is not at the point where it will twirl fast enough to buzz. Likely need to remove the linear power curve and make it more of an on/off vertical one.

I have a license for SRS to use these. I will compare today to see if the effect is different and/or better with SRS vs. simhub. I recall SIM3D saying SRS was already dialed in.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Spent some quality time in my rig for a few hours this morning and now I've got myself questioning why I want to mess with something that already works so well.

 

[blekenbleu]

want to mess with something

indeed, chicken or egg

 

[RCHeliguy]

indeed, chicken or egg

The issue is that my tactile is so good that I only need a few motion queues to sell the experience. So it's really about all the tertiary limitations.

1. Having a static seat. losing the universal joint slop. For flight the moving seat does impact my rudder control and makes me notice the seat is moving. When driving I never notice.

2. Related to that, being able to add seat sliders. I never wanted to do that with the NLRv3 because I didn't want to change the center of gravity over the universal joint.

3. Not worrying about over powering the NLRv3 with too much brake pressure and having it shut down.

4. Related to that, being concerned about the weight limit, not that I'm over, but mostly for guests.

It almost looks like I'm considering the D-Box Gen 5 because it fits easily and eliminates my issues with the NLRv3 rather than because it will add so much more. So overall the performance that I notice may be very comparable. But then a number of issues go away.

 

[Beef36]

Here is a sim racing based podcast with Stéphane Vidal (D-Box Head of Products).

I thought the different approaches between the motion platform vendors at the Sim Racing Expo was interesting...

Grid Finder's Sim Sunday Podcast

Note: I have no affiliation with the podcaster. I just found it interesting, so if this post isn't allowed, please delete it.