Team Orders in F1 - Good, Bad or Just Plain Ugly?

[sjb266]

I don’t know what all the fuss is about.. they’re spending hundreds of millions on their F1 program... they want to do everything they can to secure both titles...

What would the discussion thread look like if Lewis lost the champion ship by 7 points?!

 

[Durge Driven]

Why not?
Ferrari did pactice the team order all over the years and so distorted the Championship for that time.

.............and many wanted Schumacher thrown out of the sport for that

Every single reason commentators and Mercedes used especially the one of protecting a 2 race buffer was the same for Ferrari back then

I agree with you, in the end the team rules so I have no objection to Mercedes or Ferrari doing it

Ultimately it is up to the driver, maybe Val will tell Toto "this is the last time I do this !"

 

[Constantin Grimminger]

It's a competitive season. When you know how ruthless your main competitor is prepared to be, you have to be prepared to match them.

Seriously? Hamilton has to DNF twice now while Vettel wins both these races and even then, Vettel would remain in 2nd. How the hell is that competitive?

 

[Knoxstar]

If it is a team sport then why is there a singular driver's championship? Face it, this is a business decision for Mercedes and these decisions always are PR disasters. That was one very awkward award ceremony. The fans were not impressed, Lewis looked embarrassed.....tsk, tsk Formula 1.

 

[Deleted member 113561]

I was refering today. And Bottas had the pace to win today, Kimi did not at Hockenheim.

I strongly disagree. Kimi was for a good reason ahead of Vettel in Hockenheim until teamorders, he clearly had the pace to win that day.

 

[TrumpetReich]

Love em when it's your team, hate it when it's another.

 

[Timberwind]

First of, Formula 1 is mostly an engineering competition and it starts already with the money they have at their disposal. This creates an unequality right from the start for the constructor's title.
Then there is the scoring system which greatly favors team orders towards the end of the season to win the driver's championship. Perhaps something of a scoring system like in NASCAR, where the difference in points between each driver is reduced in the middle of the season, would minimize the wish to do team orders. Here it would lead to a risky strategy to favour one driver over the other towards the end of the season, if the one in the lead suddenly underperforms. Obviously it is required to detach driver from constructor points not to jeopardize the core idea of F1.
But I think this issue is not so critical to warrant extensive rework of the scoring system. I believe people should preferably watch homologated racing series, if they wish to have more of a focus on driving skill.

 

[dhmotor]

I think this is more of an money thing. I can remember the Corvettes and the Fords both battling teammates for podium spots in IMSA that almost led to their mutual detriment. The idea is you're in a a race, so race. At Le Mans this year, the 68 & 67 were battling it out trying to catch the Rothmans's car arguably the best part of the race). LMP1 (where the most $ is spent) though seems to work on team orders......at least that's my impression.

 

[mopro]

I don´t like them but, F1 is a team based sport, it´s not an individualistic sport, teams has 2 cars for making more points, not for having 2 main drivers.

Then it's only fair if they only give the trophy to the team and not individual driver?

 

[Terry Rock]

I can see both sides of the argument.
On the one hand, LH was 'rooting' his left rear tire behind VB and vulnerable to falling into SV clutches.
He pulled a gap once pass VB and the deg stabilized somewhat.
As to VB...I felt bad for him.
He and LH seem to have a genuine friendship and have swapped and relinquish positions before.
Neither was clearly happy on that podium.
You could see it written all over VB's face and you could see it in LH practically pulling VB onto the top step and trying to hand him the trophy.
It was uncomfortable to watch.

 

[michelforest]

really: so its all about the money like everthing else. why race at all, just stay home and fill in the results before the race, its called racing for a reason. take out the comms and let drivers just race ffs

F1 has always been a team sport. In the majority of teams, there's always been a #1 and a #2 driver. The #1 driver gets the car updates first, the car is sometimes designed to suit his driving style and the race strategy is planned for him. Ferrari did this with Schumacher. Result: they rewrote the record book and won 5 titles in a row.

If you let them race, as you say, you end up with the situation at Force India, where teammates take each other out on the track. Sure, it's exciting for some of the fans, but hours of very hard work and a lot of money evaporate instantly.

Like it or not, there has to be an alpha male in each team. That doesn't mean that there's no racing. There can be a lot of good racing, but it can't be between teammates. Mercedes has two goals this season: a driver title and a team title. In order to achieve the first, choices have to be made and the driver with the biggest chance to win the title gets priority. When Hamilton has won the title, Bottas will be free to race for himself. In the meantime, he's the #2 driver and he races for the team.

 

[michelforest]

Very annoyed to see this today.
Do remember that it is certainly not anything nothing new in F1 though; Coulthard did this 3 times for Hakkinen for example.

It's been done so often it's an integral part of F1. People only notice it nowadays, but I've been watching F1 since 1978 and I've seen it repeatedly.

 

[michelforest]

If it is a team sport then why is there a singular driver's championship? Face it, this is a business decision for Mercedes and these decisions always are PR disasters. That was one very awkward award ceremony. The fans were not impressed, Lewis looked embarrassed.....tsk, tsk Formula 1.

The fans who are not impressed need to read about F1 history... This is as old as the sport itself. As for Lewis looking embarrassed, that's just P.R. b.s. It's not his decision anyway, so he should not look "guilty" or ill at ease.

 

[michelforest]

Ultimately it is up to the driver, maybe Val will tell Toto "this is the last time I do this !"

I seriously doubt that. He knows his place in the team. He also knows he could be replaced very easily by a certain Esteban Ocon. Not to mention, there's probably a clause in his contract about situations like this one.

 

[michelforest]

Lewis should've handed the place back. He would be the king and ultimate team player..

Actually, he would not have been a team player at all. Giving back first place to Bottas would have been a clear act of disobedience. Maybe he would have looked good to the fans, but he would have been severely reprimanded by Toto Wolf. Strategy is not up for discussion.

 

[michelforest]

Team Orders are always fishy, but I think every team, every top team I mean has someting like a carte blanche at the begining of the season for first 5 or 6 races. If drivers fight, then teams let them fight, but if one of them gets a clear advantage and has a vital chance of winning the title, team should put their money on that driver and help him (or her) in everyway they can, even when it comes to "managing" grid order in the race.

You're right. However, I don't completely agree with the idea that "If drivers fight, then teams let them fight". It's more like "you can race your teammate, but you can't do anything that will result in contact between the two of you." When racing one's teammate, a driver must be extra-cautious.

 

[michelforest]

It's bad, should be banned.

It can't be banned. If it was outlawed, teams would just come up with some b.s. excuse like "Valteri slowed down because he had an issue with his car." Reminds me, a few years ago, when they tried to limit the information the engineer could give the driver over the radio. It resulted in some ridiculous conversations between drivers and engineers ; eventually, the FIA realized the absurdity of the whole thing and scrapped that rule.

 

[gamer19]

F1 has always been a team sport. In the majority of teams, there's always been a #1 and a #2 driver. The #1 driver gets the car updates first, the car is sometimes designed to suit his driving style and the race strategy is planned for him. Ferrari did this with Schumacher. Result: they rewrote the record book and won 5 titles in a row.
If you let them race, as you say, you end up with the situation at Force India, where teammates take each other out on the track. Sure, it's exciting for some of the fans, but hours of very hard work and a lot of money evaporate instantly.
Like it or not, there has to be an alpha male in each team. That doesn't mean that there's no racing. There can be a lot of good racing, but it can't be between teammates. Mercedes has two goals this season: a driver title and a team title. In order to achieve the first, choices have to be made and the driver with the biggest chance to win the title gets priority. When Hamilton has won the title, Bottas will be free to race for himself. In the meantime, he's the #2 driver and he races for the team.

Nice speech.
Sigh.... Nico Rosberg....
Am I the only one who miss this dude ?
Feel like he's been retired a decade ago.
He was racing with Hamilton so very often.
And they both ended with all car parts. Mostly.

 

[throughalens83]

For me it's pretty simple: I accept team orders between teammates (like "he's faster than you, let him pass"), but I don't accept when you use one of them against another team, like Valtteri did more than once to block Ferraris.

 

[BazzaLB]

Glad I decided to watch the Ryder Cup instead. Much more exciting and far less predictable. Unfortunately I have to watch Sky Sports F1 for my F1 viewing and that's just a LH / Mercedes love fest. I'd prefer if the DC was based on say your top 14 races whereby the points for every single race is not so vital and the odd DNF does not kill your chances.