The start
So with a P1-X rig in place, a decent 2080ti PC silently running in the background, triple monitors and a HTC Vive Pro VR headset on hand, I thought all was well in the world, but something was still missing from the emersion of any sim I loaded... at first I thought motion should be the port of call to bring things to life more, so with SFX-100 bits 3D printed the plan was motion all the way...
A spanner in the works...
However, searching through YouTube and Instagram, the old Buttkicker Gamer2 kept cropping up (at this stage I wasn't a RaceDepartment member and the genius that is @Mr Latte was unknown to me). So, a BK G2 was winging its way to me for testing / playing with, although not ideal for the P1-X rig it gave me insight and an understanding of tactile, by the way, a BK G2 can produce some decent energy, its like the metal arm it's connected to somehow amplifies the small transducer. It can rattle the P1-X but in a very broad and underwhelming way, it simply wasn't specific or concentrated enough to a specific area, that area being my butt / Sparco seat.
I'd thought about a way to connect it directly to the seat (while still allowing the seat to slide on the rails), but it just didn't seem like it was going to work, I'd also never considered having 4 Mini LFE's on the corners of the P1-X, especially after having the BK G2 connected to it, knowing how the rig just seems to dissipate the energy from the BK G2 I figured it would do the same to any other transducer I added to corners, it did make me wonder why SimLabs would sell special brackets for such things, but thats for another day. So the question was what to do now...?
RaceDepartment
Whilst browsing through Instagram I'd come across a guy posting pics of his rig build, a DM later he'd mentioned "exciters" that could connect directly to a hard shell seat vis its 3M VHB adhesive and within that chat a mention of @Mr Latte on the RaceDepartment forum... so after some reading of the 100 or so pages of the Tactile Immersion thread, the plan was formulated (from the bits I understood in and amongst the pages and pages of tactile discussions)... 8 x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 transducers, 4 Douk Audio Nobsound Amps (NS-010G) and some isolation of the seat with the BK G2 being moved to the pedal plate and get that isolated somehow.
And it begins...
The exciters and amps arrived the next day (thanks to the might Amazon) and were played with on different surfaces to see what they could do. I was impressed with how they turned pretty much any solid surface in to a full range speaker, although this wasn't the purpose of them, it was impressive to hear it work, with the DAEX32EO-4 only being 40W I went with small 50W per channel Nobsound amps (NS-01G), no point in the 100w type with the exciters being so small. They are attached to the seat, as follows:
2 shoulders / wings (Left/Right)
2 at lower back / spine (Left/Right)
2 at bolsters (Left/Right)
2 under the seat (towards the front so as to be positioned near the front of the thighs - Left/Right)
General rig / setup as of 12th May 2020
Rig
SimLabs P1-X with Quad Monitor Stand
Sparco Evo II Seat
3 x Gigabyte Aorus 27" CV27F Curved (1500R)
1 x Dell 25"
HTC Vive Pro VR
Fanatec ClubSport V2.5
Fanatec Clubsport Formula V2, Porsche 918 RSR & GT Motorsport wheels
Fanatec ClubSport Pedals V3
Fanatec ClubSport Shifter SQ V1.5
Fanatec ClubSport Handbrake V1.5
Button Box
PC
Overclocked (4.9GHz) i9 9900K
EVGA RTX 2080Ti 11GB
32GB DDR4
2 x 1TB SSD
Hardline Watercooled
SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless Headphones
Tactile
Behringer NX3000D (3.5mm to XLR)
1x Buttkicker Concert (SpeakOn to Banana)
1 x Buttkicker Gamer2 (wired to SpeakOn)
4x Nobsound NS-01G
8x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Exciters
SimHub
It all seemed very promising...
So after some initial setup and playing with SimHub, I was up and running 6 exciters, Shoulders, Lower Back and Bolsters (all Left & Right) from my 7.1 sound card with the other 2 exciters (under the seat) running on a mono channel paired with the BK G2 at the pedals, 8 Custom Channels in all, on SimHub, not ideal with the G2 and the exciters under seat all firing on the same 2 channels at the same time but it was working none the less, I had 8 exciters and the G2 working.
Instantly it was far better than I expected, these small exciters were doing their job, there was a bit of a rattle at the shoulders from time to time and what I thought was the exciter "pang'ing" the seat shell, but once setup in SimHub there was clearly left and right channels working as I drove over bumps, curbs and so on... with the SteelSeries headphones the only thing I could hear was the sim (engine, road noise etc...) and I could feel the tactile, bumps and gear changes through the seat, it was immersive. Yes it was early days and it got better as I started to understand SimHub a little more and found the right volume in SimHub combined with the right amp volume, but I was just scratching the surface and I knew I could do better with a little guidance...
The generosity of strangers!
I needed help, and the person best to help would be the man who's very idea of small exciters had put me on this journey... @Mr Latte. His help has been instrumental in getting to the point of having the 8 exciters, a BK Concert and Gamer2 hooked up with the NX3000D and all running on different SimHub layers, those layers being complex and custom with Speed, RPMS, Road Vibration, Impacts, Wheelslip and Gear Change, all running to specific transducers and focusing on the Ferrari 488 in ACC (generally at Spa) so we have a baseline for constant comparison and feedback.
The exciters on there own are fantastic and as a budget solution are great, what stands out with them is the 40Hz and above range with specific body parts feeling the tactile / energy well, right shoulder, right bolster / thigh on a curb as you bump / run over it and so on.
With that said though, when adding the G2 at the pedals and the BK Concert attached directly to the seat... the immersion and range from 0Hh through to 200Hz is what I can only describe as overwhelming, but it a good way, almost overload on the senses, in a way that makes you laugh out load... my cheeks, chin and eye lids shaking as the 488 takes a corner at speed, leaving the 488 pulled over on the track and the engine idling, you would swear there was a car parked in the house.... without a shadow of a doubt.
So the BK Concert combined with the small tactile exciters works and works well, imagine the speed building from under the seat, to the lower back and bolsters then as speed builds it continues up the seat where at top end the shoulders are feeling the energy of it all... it is quite simply the missing link between the FFB from the wheelbase and the rest of your body, it makes such a difference to being immersed in the sim.
On from this came the isolation of the seat from the frame, to stop the energy (or reduce the energy) from passing to the rig frame and dissipating. This was the next big eye opener, feeling all that energy from 9 transducer stay in the seat took things up a level.
So this thread / post is all very generally at the moment and I'll certainly go in to more detail with those that would like to know more, there is still plenty to do, the pedal isolation isn't finished, nor is the seat isolation, by doing it all to this stage I can see how important it is to have the energy stay where I want it and not leak out (like a water leak would, given the chance), we want the energy to enter the body and our touch / contact points, not the P1-X frame.
I'll begin to post more pics and the odd SimHub screen shot as further progress is made and give greater insight in to my opinion of the setup working and its failings. This tactile combined with SFX-100 motion would be unreal.
Then came this purchase
Monitors needed to be stripped back to cater for the increase height on the seat with the isolators.
Temporary isolation, some plates are required to cater for the 64mm rubber feet - This is a @Mr Lattee solution and it really does work.
So with a P1-X rig in place, a decent 2080ti PC silently running in the background, triple monitors and a HTC Vive Pro VR headset on hand, I thought all was well in the world, but something was still missing from the emersion of any sim I loaded... at first I thought motion should be the port of call to bring things to life more, so with SFX-100 bits 3D printed the plan was motion all the way...
A spanner in the works...
However, searching through YouTube and Instagram, the old Buttkicker Gamer2 kept cropping up (at this stage I wasn't a RaceDepartment member and the genius that is @Mr Latte was unknown to me). So, a BK G2 was winging its way to me for testing / playing with, although not ideal for the P1-X rig it gave me insight and an understanding of tactile, by the way, a BK G2 can produce some decent energy, its like the metal arm it's connected to somehow amplifies the small transducer. It can rattle the P1-X but in a very broad and underwhelming way, it simply wasn't specific or concentrated enough to a specific area, that area being my butt / Sparco seat.
I'd thought about a way to connect it directly to the seat (while still allowing the seat to slide on the rails), but it just didn't seem like it was going to work, I'd also never considered having 4 Mini LFE's on the corners of the P1-X, especially after having the BK G2 connected to it, knowing how the rig just seems to dissipate the energy from the BK G2 I figured it would do the same to any other transducer I added to corners, it did make me wonder why SimLabs would sell special brackets for such things, but thats for another day. So the question was what to do now...?
RaceDepartment
Whilst browsing through Instagram I'd come across a guy posting pics of his rig build, a DM later he'd mentioned "exciters" that could connect directly to a hard shell seat vis its 3M VHB adhesive and within that chat a mention of @Mr Latte on the RaceDepartment forum... so after some reading of the 100 or so pages of the Tactile Immersion thread, the plan was formulated (from the bits I understood in and amongst the pages and pages of tactile discussions)... 8 x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 transducers, 4 Douk Audio Nobsound Amps (NS-010G) and some isolation of the seat with the BK G2 being moved to the pedal plate and get that isolated somehow.
And it begins...
The exciters and amps arrived the next day (thanks to the might Amazon) and were played with on different surfaces to see what they could do. I was impressed with how they turned pretty much any solid surface in to a full range speaker, although this wasn't the purpose of them, it was impressive to hear it work, with the DAEX32EO-4 only being 40W I went with small 50W per channel Nobsound amps (NS-01G), no point in the 100w type with the exciters being so small. They are attached to the seat, as follows:
2 shoulders / wings (Left/Right)
2 at lower back / spine (Left/Right)
2 at bolsters (Left/Right)
2 under the seat (towards the front so as to be positioned near the front of the thighs - Left/Right)
General rig / setup as of 12th May 2020
Rig
SimLabs P1-X with Quad Monitor Stand
Sparco Evo II Seat
3 x Gigabyte Aorus 27" CV27F Curved (1500R)
1 x Dell 25"
HTC Vive Pro VR
Fanatec ClubSport V2.5
Fanatec Clubsport Formula V2, Porsche 918 RSR & GT Motorsport wheels
Fanatec ClubSport Pedals V3
Fanatec ClubSport Shifter SQ V1.5
Fanatec ClubSport Handbrake V1.5
Button Box
PC
Overclocked (4.9GHz) i9 9900K
EVGA RTX 2080Ti 11GB
32GB DDR4
2 x 1TB SSD
Hardline Watercooled
SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless Headphones
Tactile
Behringer NX3000D (3.5mm to XLR)
1x Buttkicker Concert (SpeakOn to Banana)
1 x Buttkicker Gamer2 (wired to SpeakOn)
4x Nobsound NS-01G
8x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Exciters
SimHub
It all seemed very promising...
So after some initial setup and playing with SimHub, I was up and running 6 exciters, Shoulders, Lower Back and Bolsters (all Left & Right) from my 7.1 sound card with the other 2 exciters (under the seat) running on a mono channel paired with the BK G2 at the pedals, 8 Custom Channels in all, on SimHub, not ideal with the G2 and the exciters under seat all firing on the same 2 channels at the same time but it was working none the less, I had 8 exciters and the G2 working.
Instantly it was far better than I expected, these small exciters were doing their job, there was a bit of a rattle at the shoulders from time to time and what I thought was the exciter "pang'ing" the seat shell, but once setup in SimHub there was clearly left and right channels working as I drove over bumps, curbs and so on... with the SteelSeries headphones the only thing I could hear was the sim (engine, road noise etc...) and I could feel the tactile, bumps and gear changes through the seat, it was immersive. Yes it was early days and it got better as I started to understand SimHub a little more and found the right volume in SimHub combined with the right amp volume, but I was just scratching the surface and I knew I could do better with a little guidance...
The generosity of strangers!
I needed help, and the person best to help would be the man who's very idea of small exciters had put me on this journey... @Mr Latte. His help has been instrumental in getting to the point of having the 8 exciters, a BK Concert and Gamer2 hooked up with the NX3000D and all running on different SimHub layers, those layers being complex and custom with Speed, RPMS, Road Vibration, Impacts, Wheelslip and Gear Change, all running to specific transducers and focusing on the Ferrari 488 in ACC (generally at Spa) so we have a baseline for constant comparison and feedback.
The exciters on there own are fantastic and as a budget solution are great, what stands out with them is the 40Hz and above range with specific body parts feeling the tactile / energy well, right shoulder, right bolster / thigh on a curb as you bump / run over it and so on.
With that said though, when adding the G2 at the pedals and the BK Concert attached directly to the seat... the immersion and range from 0Hh through to 200Hz is what I can only describe as overwhelming, but it a good way, almost overload on the senses, in a way that makes you laugh out load... my cheeks, chin and eye lids shaking as the 488 takes a corner at speed, leaving the 488 pulled over on the track and the engine idling, you would swear there was a car parked in the house.... without a shadow of a doubt.
So the BK Concert combined with the small tactile exciters works and works well, imagine the speed building from under the seat, to the lower back and bolsters then as speed builds it continues up the seat where at top end the shoulders are feeling the energy of it all... it is quite simply the missing link between the FFB from the wheelbase and the rest of your body, it makes such a difference to being immersed in the sim.
On from this came the isolation of the seat from the frame, to stop the energy (or reduce the energy) from passing to the rig frame and dissipating. This was the next big eye opener, feeling all that energy from 9 transducer stay in the seat took things up a level.
So this thread / post is all very generally at the moment and I'll certainly go in to more detail with those that would like to know more, there is still plenty to do, the pedal isolation isn't finished, nor is the seat isolation, by doing it all to this stage I can see how important it is to have the energy stay where I want it and not leak out (like a water leak would, given the chance), we want the energy to enter the body and our touch / contact points, not the P1-X frame.
I'll begin to post more pics and the odd SimHub screen shot as further progress is made and give greater insight in to my opinion of the setup working and its failings. This tactile combined with SFX-100 motion would be unreal.
Then came this purchase
Monitors needed to be stripped back to cater for the increase height on the seat with the isolators.
Temporary isolation, some plates are required to cater for the 64mm rubber feet - This is a @Mr Lattee solution and it really does work.
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