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season 5 race 4@ Suzuka - Drivers Meeting

Discussion in 'Presto GP' started by Anthony Ishak, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. I thought to start this thread; hopefully it is not too late :).

    I come to think of 2 points in regards to this track:

    1- the first turn : it could be a bit critical zone mainly for the mid field, I noticed that every time we did a race on the 5laps server where we were around 5 drivers or so , someone always ended up in the gravel because he missed the braking zone or was a bit too optimistic with his overtaking attempt or something like that and I could imagine what the situation would be with 20 drivers on track .

    2- the pit entry: I tried yesterday the pit entry and I got S&G , as I noticed that you need to try couple of times to find the right braking zone when entering the speed limit area, I believe we should all practice where to brake so we do not hit each other there at the same time saving on a 'stop & go " :)...
  2. The main thing to keep in mind with this track is that at almost any part of the circuit, if you go off the track you almost certainly hit the wall. Turn 1 for our race yesterday saw a couple of small contacts, due partly to guys being optimistic & also those being cautious & hitting the brakes. I think trying to go through 2-wide is not gonna pay off, better to wait & merge carefully & maintain position.

    Areas to watch for...
    The 'S' bend represents hassles at times, especially when Lapping.
    T1 - if you go in too hard and run off the track you will almost ceertainly hit the wall and obtain damage.
    Also applies to most of the fast corners; Degner, Spoon.
    Final chicane - accelerating too quickly here may send you spinning into the wall where pit entry starts, or into pitlane if you are lucky.
    Pitlane entry - make sure you give vehicles room if you are turning into pitlane.
    Best passing opportunites are at the end the two big straights.
  3. I just want to apeal to everybody that unlaps themselves to do it safely. I had an incident on Singapore where A driver were unlapping himself in a quite Aggressive overtaking. And he got the gap away from me. so no no incident to report. But as a result of this everytime that driver made a mistake and i lapped him he catched up with me and i couldnt stop thinking that instead of racing my race i was nervous that he would hit me and therefore i drove very slow and let him overtake me a couple of times after the first overtaking.

    To be fair this driver was faster than me and im gonna let faster guys unlapping themselves overtake me.. no doubt..

    What are you guys point of view here??
  4. Brian leave make an incident report and send it to the race director .
    Its is of no use too publicly shame and name people here....
  5. Its not the purpose to blame anybody.. it was to make a debate!!

    To clear this up this is not a attack on Cor in anyway so im sorry if it seemed that way!!
  6. I think it is very important that we can discuss situations openly without worrying that we might step on toes. The more thik-skinned everybody are, the more we can discuss freely and more situations will become clear to all. But it is of course important to seperate situation and person, so it is not Cor that should be discussed but the situation described (as I am sure was Brian's intention as well).
  7. I believe Brian was trying to address a situation rather than putting the blame on anyone and was hoping to hear our opinion in the " drivers meeting ", but i agree , the way he decribed it it did sound a bit diferent than what he actually meant . We had similar situations in previous races and we had big debates about it and as a result the race director made it clear in the "Presto GP’s Holy Book” ,.

    Brian, you will find the answer in the Presto GP document that i have sent you when you first joined the Presto GP league under " Unlap Yourself" ..:)
  8. First of all, I did not mean to imply that Brian focused on person and not situation :)
    Second of all Anthony is as right as he can be, always refer to "The Document" if you wonder about something. In this situation one would read the following:

    [FONT=&quot]Unlap yourself[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    Although not the most common situation, from time to time it does happen. Should you find yourself faster than the car ahead of you and a lap down you are in a tricky situation. If you try to make a pass you’ll be blue flagged once you are ahead and will need to pull away quickly to avoid penalty.

    It is important to know that it is the guy one lap behind that carries the responsibility for the situation. You cannot expect the car ahead to make the situation easier for you and allow you past; although he might opt to do so if he is not in direct competition with you and will only lose time defending against you.[/FONT]

    The Document basically say that in the situation described by Brian Cor needs to excise caution when passing Brian. It also encourage Brian to let Cor easily pass as not doing so will cost both of them time. So what seems to be the case here is that Cor was too much in a hurry to get past and did not exercise enough caution, and this effect was multiplied as Cor spun and had to repeat the pass several times.

    To Jakob: You are correct that incidents should be sent to the Race Director, and that aggressive discussions are not welcome in the forum. However, the Race Director wants to limit reported situation to only situations where there is contact with a consequence: It is absolutely crucial for him to minimise his routinely workload, this is probably why he is so fanatic about getting the race reports in time with right format and time stamps :)
  9. Valerio Vinassa

    Valerio Vinassa
    PrestoGP Veteran

    want remember my Singapore race for many time happened that I let pass who was faster me but I was with 1 or 2 laps of vantage over many drivers and much time from who was behind me so its easy for me do it and dont push after this because the problem of blue flag in race is strong but not everytime is possible do it . If is possible a speed look at list "position drivers" ( in game ) can help for understand who overtook who for ulapped himself,and please is better dont try overtake someone always wait a straight is better for all , at the end we talking about unlapping, in all other case BATTLE:D.
  10. On the opening lap, I'd suggest watching out for anyone who find themselves on the outside line at the Kumui hairpin [T11]. With many cars following behind it would be quite easy to end some ones' race early by knocking them off and into the wall.

    Also, it may be [will be] necessary to brake earlier and earlier the further back in the snake you find yourself on the approach to this famous hairpin. Turn 10 can block the view of what is happening ahead of the car directly in front of you....

    only my thoughts :)

    So far I haven't unlapped myself this season but I would wait and see if I'm given a “pass me” signal from the car ahead or think about a possible strategy change depending upon what stage the race is at.
  11. I didnt mean to be mean agauinst Brain , but he could have left out Cor's name.
    I aplausse the idea of this discussion cause i also come across these situation on track .
    I my oppion its oke to unlap yourself , but be carefull about it .
    And think unlapping yourself in last 3 laps of the race is useless and there fore should not happen .
  12. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    I agree with everything here mentioned about unlapping, but your last thought isn't true in every case. Of course it's true in most cases, but imagine the following situation:

    Imagine you are in 11th position after a very late stop and there are 3 laps to go. You have fresh tires and are a bit quicker than the leader in front of you, who lapped you whilest your stop.

    If you finish behind him, you can only drive one lap less than all the cars in the leading lap (1st - 10th). So you finish 11th with no points. :frown:
    If you are able to unlap yourself, you are still 11th, but now in the lead lap. If now happens an accident in the last lap, which takes out two cars, because others are fighting for their positions, you can finish 9th and get some points.

    I think i've seen this years ago, when it was raining in the end of the race at Magny Course.

    So if the leader has a comfortable gap to 2nd and recognices the lapped car is closing up, he should let him unlap and give him a little gap not to get blue flags...
  13. Well this thing happend to me , someone tried to undo his lap on me. this got me very nervous as the end off the race was in sight.
    2 or 3 laps to go . He really wanted to get by me. So made here and there room , but he didnt overtake me . then he spun .
    All frustated by this i made a couple of turn later an error and spun myself.
    Now the car i was fighting with for position now got close to me , with the guy a lap down in between .
    No he still wanted to unlap him self, so he got into the middle of our fight for posistion 3 in race.
    So now you can see why i dont like people who are lap down try to unlap themselfs ( with no gain in sight) , i was not leading race.

    P.S. I didnt name the guy , that would be naming and shaming right ?
  14. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    ive first hand knowledge about how unlapping yourself can lead to dire consequences, at interlagos last season i was well down the field, but with stupid frustration and the need to constantly be going fast i made a crazy overtaking move on Tim McIver, he was alot slower than me and i got very annoyed at having to wait behind when in all honesty i shouldve gave up my race long before then, anyhoo it got to the point where i was willing to make any move to get past, so i ended up ruining Tims race due to this when he was in a commanding points position, immediatly after i made excuses upon excuse to justify my actions but once id calmed down and looked at what id actually done and the harm id done to Tim i realised that unlapping should only be attempted if the guy in front is willing to let you past safely, if hes not then DONT try it.

    p.s in this situation Tim had something he was fighting for so he had every right not to let me past and keep up his fight without interferrance from me, in other situations i.e the driver 1 lap in front has nothing to gain or lose then obviously he has to consider letting the faster driver past as long as he doesnt feel it will impact his race.
  15. Everybody got carte blanche on naming and shaming me. If I have done something that is perceived as wrong or undesired then I want to know about it and get the situation resolved so we’ll avoid similar situation in the future. Also, I know that it would not be intended as a personal attack on me but rather an incentive to shed light over a situation that needs resolving.

    Drivers at Presto GP have always been very friendly with each other, but avoiding bringing up situations where somebody have done something wrong in a friendly way is very bad for the league. A discussion like this is what brings the drivers of the league in sync with each other.

    The single most important factor to make good racing is that the participants are 100% in sync when it comes to how to behave on track. If all our league members were active in this thread then the matter of un-lapping ourselves would be resolved. The slower car in front would notice that he has a faster guy behind him that is one lap behind and would at an appropriate place allow the other guy to pass. And the guy behind would never make a pass unless a very safe opportunity emerge (e.g. in the form of the guy ahead moving aside).

    I think this is why the Race Director is very cross about the fact that maybe 1/3 of the league haven’t looked at the Incident Review. If everybody reads and agrees then we would expect many situations to almost disappear. But if one for example never looks at this thread then one cannot expect that driver to know what to do in an un-lapping situation.
  16. Well I have been on both sides of the unlapping dilemma now.

    In Monza I was in midfield trying to catch up the guy about 6-10 seconds in front when a guy came up behind me. He was way behind the guy in front and passing me would not have given him another lap as I was not leading the race. He was faster but I didn't really want to let him past because he would then be between me and the guy I was chasing. And if the guy I was chasing didnt let him past it would be very hard for me to get to the guy I wanted to pass. However the guy behind hovered really close behind me and really disturbed me causing me to lose time and make several small mistakes that could have cost me my race.

    Didn't really expect to get into the situation where I was the one that was trying to unlap myself, but that happened in Singapore. I was in third and quite far behind Valerio i 2nd. But it was wet and I was catching him fast and maybe he would make a mistake on what were probably very worn tyres. I caught Peter up at the tunnel just a few corners from the end. I was a lot faster than him at that point but he would have been well within his rights to keep me behind. I could not have made a pass on him there. Peter saw that I was in a hurry and he had more than half a lap on Valerio with only 4 corners to go and he let me pass. I was very grateful and made a huge effort to catch Valerio on the last lap. I didnt make it, but with a mistake from him in the wet I could have been 2nd.

    So I can now clearly understand both sides of this coin, and I have to say it is more complex than it seemed to me at Monza. I still feel that you should have a clear acheivable goal in trying to unlap yourself, preferably a real chance of increasing your points from that race. If you don't please stay back and let the guy in front run his race in peace. On the other side you should have a valid reason if you wish to prevent a guy unlapping you. If you don't have a good reason, let him pass.

    If we are all clear on this, we won't try to unlap just because we have made some mistakes and are bored at driving at the back, and we won't keep guys behind just because for once we are a lap ahead of them. Knowing this we will know that if the guy doesnt make it easy for you to unlap yourself then he has what he feels is a good reason for not doing it.