Pimax VR HMD review NDA embargo lifts: not great news for sim racers

[Mascot]

Testers are now allowed to release reviews of the final hardware, and while the Pimax units are undoubtedly a step forward for VR (higher resolution, wider FoV), the bad news seems to be that they're likely to struggle to provide adequate framerates in sim racing (even with powerful 8700k/1080ti combos). Doubts also remain about the effectiveness of Pimax's reprojection/ASW solution.

Assetto Corsa benchmarks at about 1hr 15 mins timestamp:

More reviews:

Foveated rendering can't come quickly enough, it seems.
The wider FoV for better peripheral vision in sim racing is was what got me excited about the Pimax in the first place, but it seems like PC hardware might need a couple more generations to adequately power the displays (or HMD tech needs to find efficiency solutions) before sim racing can truly benefit from this. Maybe one card per eye is required?

Anyone here backing the Pimax Kickstarter or getting ready to preorder?

 

[RobertR1]

Here is video + summary in first post:

PC2
http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/mrtv-project-cars-2-on-pimax-5k-plus-8k-vive-pro-on-gtx-1080ti/9032

Skyrim
http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/mrtv-skyrim-vr-on-the-pimax-8k-5k-plus-with-a-gtx-1080ti/9058/3

He is repeatedly saying that it's impossible to come back from 5k or 8k to current gen headsets due to FOV and he can't believe, that he could previously enjoy VR with narrow FOV headsets. I'm in for Pimax once it's available for preorder Many reviews are positive, but let's see what first kickstarter backers say, should be quite soon (first 100 units batch).

I've been following the Pimax stuff very closely and watched too many videos and read the forums too much!

I have no doubts that the higher FOV is the future. That's a given. My concerns are around the following:
- We have a very small sample size of reviewers and there's some contention from the Spanish reviewers regarding the build quality
- Pimax is still a new company getting their feet wet with mass production and the QC challenges it brings
- Seeing how late in the game they shifted from M1 to M2 units, that revision process could be applicable here depending on their R&D

The Odyssey will be a nice hold over and as you stated, the first 100 will get their units soon hopefully. By spring next year there should be a notable sample size that answers my questions. In the meantime, i can enjoy 6-8 months of a better experience with the Odyssey over the rift in regard to increased resolution and reduced SDE.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I’m definitely not sold on the Pimax and personally don’t think wider FOV with the same picture quality is next gen. LCD screens for me are a no go, like all LCD panels they will have rubbish black levels and I always find they look like someone is shining a light behind the screen washing the image out.

We still aren’t at a point where SteamVR handles reprojection as well as The Oculus SDK which is frustrating as I wouldn’t want to swap to an inferior system when we don’t have the power not to need ASW yet.

StarVR is the only one I’d rate as next-gen but it’s going to have the price tag to match and we still don’t know about game support for foveated rendering or how well their software is going to work.

Early days yet for VR but hopefully enough players in the market for it not to die off like 3D because I will actually stop buying/playing any new video games if support goes and stick to “old” VR sims.

 

[anton_Chez]

I think people's expectations are a little too high regarding VR and the state it needs to be in for them to enjoy it, or at least make use of it. I mean, sure, StarVR, great. How many of you have a spare multiple thousand dollars to spend on a VR headset? OK you do? Cool. What sort of hardware are you now going to need to run it at an acceptable frame rate? Who knows.

If Pimax headsets are struggling to achieve acceptable frame rates (at least with testers who may or may not be prioritising settings to achieve optimal frames) then what hope does any other headset have of improving on it, especially at a consumer price level?

Tom's Hardware? The Tom's Hardware that told us all to 'just buy it', regarding the newest round of Nvidia price gouging? Well, if we are going to rely on sources such as this for technical feedback and recommendations, I'm selling all my gear and picking up surfing. What a disgrace that website has become.

Overall, it all sounds a little too familiar. Like the people that scream that "IT DOESN'T MOVE THE WHOLE RIG, NO BUY FOR ME" regarding full motion platforms and seat movers. Like really? Not sure I know any of you that have a spare $40K AUD for a D-Box system (that don't already own one ) that refuse to accept that seat movers are an effective way of adding immersion to our hobby.

VR is in the same situation. We can wait 10 years for things to improve. Or, or, we could just accept that we aren't getting the blackest blackest blacks, the screen door effect is minimal but still there, and understand that a limited FOV in VR is probably the number one thing holding it back, apart from a lack of graphics power that manufactures insist on drip feeding us.

I'll get my backer #4000 ish Pimax hopefully by the end of the year. If it's great, I'll tell you. If it's ass, I'll tell you. If it has potential but we need to increase the power delivery to truly enjoy it, I'll tell you. I won't tell you, however, to 'just buy it'.

Because I'm not retarded.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

I think people's expectations are a little too high regarding VR and the state it needs to be in for them to enjoy it, or at least make use of it. I mean, sure, StarVR, great. How many of you have a spare multiple thousand dollars to spend on a VR headset? OK you do? Cool. What sort of hardware are you now going to need to run it at an acceptable frame rate? Who knows.

If Pimax headsets are struggling to achieve acceptable frame rates (at least with testers who may or may not be prioritising settings to achieve optimal frames) then what hope does any other headset have of improving on it, especially at a consumer price level?

Tom's Hardware? The Tom's Hardware that told us all to 'just buy it', regarding the newest round of Nvidia price gouging? Well, if we are going to rely on sources such as this for technical feedback and recommendations, I'm selling all my gear and picking up surfing. What a disgrace that website has become.

Overall, it all sounds a little too familiar. Like the people that scream that "IT DOESN'T MOVE THE WHOLE RIG, NO BUY FOR ME" regarding full motion platforms and seat movers. Like really? Not sure I know any of you that have a spare $40K AUD for a D-Box system (that don't already own one ) that refuse to accept that seat movers are an effective way of adding immersion to our hobby.

VR is in the same situation. We can wait 10 years for things to improve. Or, or, we could just accept that we aren't getting the blackest blackest blacks, the screen door effect is minimal but still there, and understand that a limited FOV in VR is probably the number one thing holding it back, apart from a lack of graphics power that manufactures insist on drip feeding us.

I'll get my backer #4000 ish Pimax hopefully by the end of the year. If it's great, I'll tell you. If it's ass, I'll tell you. If it has potential but we need to increase the power delivery to truly enjoy it, I'll tell you. I won't tell you, however, to 'just buy it'.

Because I'm not retarded.

Well I'll certainly trust your opinion so looking forward to see how you get on. The Toms Hardware review at least showed benchmarks, the raw numbers always count.

Their article on buying the 20 series card was full of weird contradictions, but I wouldn't judge them against one bad article that the editor should have stopped when their editorial is generally solid.

 

[anton_Chez]

I already don't trust 95% of gaming and hardware outlets to begin with. 1 abysmal article is all I need to completely blacklist someone entirely. People know my feelings about this Nvidia launch and to see that nearly made me throw up. The icing on the cake was the Pimax thrashing. Just made me laugh in the end.

I'm no fanboy of Pimax nor am I a fanboy of VR in general. I stayed away from it until I realised it may be beneficial in sim racing. I even bought my triples ahead of the Oculus due to the fact that I didn't feel Oculus was quite up to the task, especially for an admitted graphics whore such as myself. But saying that, I am now quite aware at what VR can offer racing and flight simmers currently. The Pimax IS a step ahead of the first generation HMD's. If I don't feel that's the case once I have mine, I'll simply sell both of my VR units and opt for an Odyssey for the time being. If it's an improvement over the Rift while not being a complete resource hog like the Pimax MAY end up being even after I've tweaked as much as I can, I'll go that route. But at least I've helped usher in a competitor to companies who are clearly abandoning their most hardcore audience.

Thank me later.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Here is video + summary in first post:

PC2
http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/mrtv-project-cars-2-on-pimax-5k-plus-8k-vive-pro-on-gtx-1080ti/9032

Skyrim
http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/mrtv-skyrim-vr-on-the-pimax-8k-5k-plus-with-a-gtx-1080ti/9058/3

He is repeatedly saying that it's impossible to come back from 5k or 8k to current gen headsets due to FOV and he can't believe, that he could previously enjoy VR with narrow FOV headsets. I'm in for Pimax once it's available for preorder Many reviews are positive, but let's see what first kickstarter backers say, should be quite soon (first 100 units batch).

Thanks for posting this Michal.
From the PCars2 summary:

Vive Pro

• FOV is now ridiculously small as compared to the Pimax headsets, it feels like I am looking through toilet paper rolls
• tough to play after having just played the same game on the Pimax headsets, because of the FOV difference
• Picture quality is very good, everything looks sharp, very comparable to the 5k Plus picture, just on the smaller FOV
  
• Colors look great on the Vive Pro, deep blacks, and vibrant colors, definitely better than both Pimax 5k Plus and Pimax 8k
  
• little SDE, comparable to Pimax 8k because of similar subpixel structure (diagonal PenTile), especially on bright backgrounds
  
• game runs very smooth, no problems with stuttering at all, average fps after a full race: 69.8 fps
• even though around 12 fps more than on Pimax headsets, would never think of playing it on the Vive Pro as compared to both Pimax headsets, the immersion of the wide FOV is just so much better and game runs also well on the Pimax headsets
• no pixel persistence, distortion problems whatsoever
• headsets wiggles to the right and left when shaking head
• Microphone is just terrible

And from Skyrim review
Vive Pro

• FOV is just incredibly limiting after you have seen Skyrim through the Pimax headsets
• Colors are definitely more vibrant than on Pimax headsets, much better blacks
• Game runs perfectly smooth with 90 fps, just like 5k Plus
• Picture quality is great as well, all texts are just as easy to read as on 5K Plus
• Still would not play it on this headset anymore, due to the FOV restrictions
• Again, if you come from the Vive Pro, don't expect huge improvements on picture clarity, just imagine a similar experience with a much improved FOV, which will make for a huge difference.

So essentially you trade better FOV for drop in colors, black levels, and performance with everything else staying essentially the same.

I honestly was much more enthusiastic after initial Pimax 5K+ reviews.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I can understand for flight sims and normal VR games you want a realistic FOV but for sim racing you’d be driving with a helmet in real life which would limit your FOV basically as much as the current headsets, right?

The complaints in that scenario of the FOV being restrictive I feel are people’s unrealistic expectations of thinking they’d be able to see normally with a race helmet.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

I play a lot of VR games, over 180 in my Steam library. There are some titles where an increased FOV would be very beneficial beyond the 110 degree view of my Vive. Sim racing isn't one of them, my ultrawide 35" monitor has a significantly narrower FOV than my Vive by a long way.

But don't take that I don't see the value of the increased fov of the Pimax, of course it will make sim racing even more awesome. I'd be more interested if current graphics cards had the horsepower to run these panels without compromise. As it is the Pimax headset resolution is ahead of it's time. There maybe something to be said that's not a bad deal, it means it's relevant lifespan is longer and the experience with the Pimax will actually be better in two years time as new faster graphics cards become available.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

You can always use Helmet cam in ACC to compensate for larger FOV.

 

[anton_Chez]

People complain when there is no competition for current offerings and then complain that there are.

I don't know. I'll get my HMD, try it out, and keep it if it's good. Just like anyone that's actually tried VR, you have to use it to be able to understand it. I mean, we could just keep our Oculus for another 3 years.

Also, a helmet does not funnel your vision like the Oculus does. You can move your eyes in a helmet and at least see mirrors. I forget what side of the car I'm sitting in A LOT when in the Oculus. I've ridden motorcycles in the past and never had my vision restricted as much as the Oculus does.

 

[Mascot]

I'm just grateful that my Rift places me firmly in the cockpit of just about any car you can mention and gives me a sense of immersion that was inconceivable just a few years ago. VR may still be in its infancy but, even with its current limitations, it's still pretty effing incredible for sim racing, is it not?

And things will only improve.

 

[RobertR1]

I'm just grateful that my Rift places me firmly in the cockpit of just about any car you can mention and gives me a sense of immersion that was inconceivable just a few years ago. VR may still be in its infancy but, even with its current limitations, it's still pretty effing incredible for sim racing, is it not?

And things will only improve.

Wouldn't be here without VR so I totally get it but at the same time, let's keep moving the ball forward. I'll post my rift vs odyssey impressions on AC when I get it in a week or so. Then towards the end of the year, we should have a nice variety of Pimax reviews also.

 

[anton_Chez]

I look forward to that comparison. I'm going to look for a few right now actually. I can always sell my Pimax (insert model I choose here) and make a healthy profit, easily enough to cover another HMD such as the Odyssey. After I got the Rift I never really paid attention to anything else once I heard about and backed the Pimax Kickstarter. There may be a nice middle ground out there that improves on the Rift but at the same time doesn't need NASA super computers to run. It may be it.

 

[RobertR1]

I look forward to that comparison. I'm going to look for a few right now actually. I can always sell my Pimax (insert model I choose here) and make a healthy profit, easily enough to cover another HMD such as the Odyssey. After I got the Rift I never really paid attention to anything else once I heard about and backed the Pimax Kickstarter. There may be a nice middle ground out there that improves on the Rift but at the same time doesn't need NASA super computers to run. It may be it.

Since I went through this exercise already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RJt6CPqg5M

Those were my reference points that swayed me to go in this direction.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I like Sebastian's reviews myself.

I doubt Pimax 5k+ will dissapoint, it is solid improvement over Rift and in some areas over Odyssey. Initial reviews indicated greatly improved sharpness even over Vive Pro. Surprised Sebastian didn't say anything about that in his latest one.

 

[vegaguy5555]

One thing I really didn't like about the MR HP I tried was the UI. I couldn't figure out how to pair it with Steam but did only have one night and a few months after release. But the deal breaker was the small lenses. Field of was less than half of the Rift and the screen door was still quite obvious.
But it sounds like the Samsung version doesn't have any of these problems?

 

[Emery]

I can understand for flight sims and normal VR games you want a realistic FOV but for sim racing you’d be driving with a helmet in real life which would limit your FOV basically as much as the current headsets, right?

Nope, helmets have a pretty wide FOV. People seriously underestimate how much FOV is available in a racing helmet. I have a Conquer SA2015 full face helmet and horizontal FOV is about 180 degrees. https://www.amazon.com/Conquer-SA20...qid=1539031283&sr=8-4&keywords=conquer+sa2015

 

[anton_Chez]

Definitely. It's not completely unrestricted vision but in the Oculus, I forget which side of the car I am sitting on when I am looking straight. That's always annoyed me. The Pimax 150 degree FOV would match up with vision available in a helmet quite nicely.