Head Tracking options

[sektorao]

I have used Aruco in the past, guess it depends on camera as on my 30fps Logitech it was pretty temperamental.
Long story short, went for TrackIR 5 with Pro Clip.

I have the playstation camera with 120 fps, probably helps a lot.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

@alfye20 No. I would be interested to strictly from the curiosity point of view, but I frankly can't imagine how what I have could be improved in those aspects. TrackIR has basically identical specs, and Opentrack can be tweaked a lot.

TrackIR has a better than PS3 camera and really good, user friendly software comparing to OpenTrack.
I've read and watched dozens of reviews in the last week and everyone is saying that TrackIR has an edge in accuracy and response time, not to mention ease of setup.

But it's really old tech, they can't even make wireless transmitter.
I think Tobii is the right technology, but unfortunately not suited for sim racing at the moment. They have Pro version that allows additional tweaking to sensor location and calibration, but it is not available for consumer market.

 

[Case_]

@Andrew_WOT OK, I remembered the PS3Eye camera specs slightly wrong. I thought it could do 640x480 120fps like the TrackIR camera, but it can only do 75 fps at that resolution, or up to 180 fps in 320x240.

But I honestly never saw any noticeable difference between 640x480 and 320x240 when everything is set up well, and also never felt the need to go above my monitor's refresh rate (and even that didn't seem needed), which was 60 Hz back then and is 75 Hz now. So...yeah.

And I never had any issues with OpenTrack, be it in regard of user friendliness, response or anything else. None of that ever was an issue for me.

I'm not saying TrackIR can't be better, I'm just saying I don't really see the need for anything better. Unless there was something I'm not seeing which would turn out to be a gamechanger.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

The only spec I saw on PS3Eye was

Camera	640×480 pixels @ 60 Hz[1] 320×240 pixels @ 120 Hz[1]

But the difference might not be detrimental to performance esp. when comes to sim racing

 

[Case_]

Yeah, those are official specs. Unofficially, with the Windows driver (which is not from Sony), it can go higher.

 

[alfye20]

I have used Aruco in the past, guess it depends on camera as on my 30fps Logitech it was pretty temperamental.
Long story short, went for TrackIR 5 with Pro Clip.

This.
I think camera plays a bigger role in all tracking systems.
My experience with Facetrack and similar mobilephone based tracking is laggy, just like turn the head and wait.
Webcam based tracking its the same for me Laggy until you use a PS3 CAM but limited un adjustments.
But none of the ones I've tried can match TrackIR's sensitivity, to the point that it is overly sensitive but tuneable

 

[maelstrom]

I looked closely at TrackIR 5 several years ago but decided to build my own. I compared Freetrack, FaceTrackNoIR and Opentrack (all using a home made 3-point LED clip). Freetrack was a non-starter for me as it’s showing its age and, unlike FaceTrackNoIR and Opentrack, hasn’t been updated for many years. I prefer Opentrack to FaceTrackNoIR - it has more options and I found it smoother and it doesn’t have the very slight delay/damping that FaceTrackNoIR seems to have. I use a PS3 Eye camera which you can pick up for as little as £2.50 in the UK. The whole thing works really well and having compared it to TrackIR, I can’t see any noticeable difference in accuracy or speed of tracking. My setup isn’t sensitive to changing light levels in the way that the basic TrackIR setup can sometimes be with the reflectors. Because Opentrack has a lot of options, it can definitely be more difficult to set up initially but you get more control over the end result. Both Opentrack and FaceTrackNoIR work with any game which is compatible with TrackIR.

My setup, including the camera and driver, cost me less than £20 for the hardware (Opentrack is free). If you’re handy with a soldering iron it’s an easy build. If you need something ready-built, Delan and Trackhat seem to produce good products and complete, ready to go systems still cost about a third of the price of TrackIR. When TrackIR first reached the market, there was nothing else like it so you had to bite the bullet over the price if you wanted head tracking. It’s still a good product but it’s now very hard to justify the expense when there are very inexpensive alternatives which, in my experience, offer comparable performance.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Delanclip wireless with camera and shipping is just few buks short of TrackIR5 cost, Headtrack price is not far off, just cheaper shipping.
And TrackIR Pro Clip is not light sensitive, just like any other solution with LEDs.
But DIY or any of these work almost as good as TrackIR5, but not better. I think software is the biggest advantage of TrackIR, it's ridiculosly easy and intuitive after OpenTrack.

 

[SOLO59]

Snap I'm so late to the trackir party lol. Think op already made his decision, but just to add my recommendation and wireless option below...

Yes I can definitely recommend it! Used it on 34 inch ultrawide monitor and now I'm golden with a 49 inch super ultrawide(SUW) monitor. Imo its the perfect combo, an SUW and Trackir!
One of the issue's with trackir most people have is, having to physically move your heard away from the monitor BUT your eyes are straining looking at the monitor at the same time. Imo, simply using a large tv (at least 43 inches) or ultrawide/superultrawide monitor (at least 34 inches) can eliminate that head/eye problem. Haven't tried trackir on anything smaller than a 34 inch ultrawide monitor and no way in hell would I want to lol. Smaller displays w/trackir will lead to eye strain, headaches and in game view discomfort.

I have track clip pro (delicate and wired, but after about 4 years of use, still going strong, hasn't broke yet, and I've dropped it a few times over the years too lol)

WIRELESS OPTION:

I did purchase a wireless Track clip pro (photo above) about a year ago or so, and it works great! Far more durable than Natural Points Track Clip Pro. However, I opted for the cheaper version with only 4 hours battery life (rechargable). Few months ago, I was in a RD Club ace and the battery died on me lol... Before the race I couldn't remember if I charged it or not so I assumed I did! After that, I just went back to using the wired one stress free and kept the wireless one as a back up. Can't remember where I bought it online, but the guy made them himself 3d printed and offered 4hrs, 8hrs and more battery life options at higher cost. I'll have a better look online to see where I got it from and if he's still selling them.

To start (trackir software), may I recommend setting "speed" to "0.2" (for R3E, I prefer 0.3), "smooth" to "2," and disable all axis accept yaw and pitch. Use a little (just a little) pitch to check centre mirror and adds realistic head-in-cockpit movement and the yaw can be configured how you like for looking left/right. Imo, all other axis will distract and distort your driving experience. Trackir ain't VR, still looking on a 2d screen so no need for the other axis for racing. Flight sims and such, might need those axis though. Also, note how close my Thrustmaster wheel base is to my monitor. Being as close to your monitor as possible with greatly help with immersion and will make trackir feel just right.

All the best with your new purchase!

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Thanks SOLO59, very good info, esp. settings. On 49" G9, I had to set speed to 0.1 and I think doubled smoothness from default 1 to 2. To my surprise as I got Pro Clip version, which also includes hat mounted TrackClip, they both worked pretty much the same, with hat mounted option not needing any wires. Guess in full darkness it would be a no go, but I always have some ambient light, WMR habit.

 

[Atak_Kat]

Thanks SOLO59, very good info, esp. settings. On 49" G9, I had to set speed to 0.1 and I think doubled smoothness from default 1 to 2. To my surprise as I got Pro Clip version, which also includes hat mounted TrackClip, they both worked pretty much the same, with hat mounted option not needing any wires. Guess in full darkness it would be a no go, but I always have some ambient light, WMR habit.

Yes, I found the same. Other things I found.

For me, the most natural feeling was found when I set all the curves dead flat, so that the virtual head movement mirrored my real head movement as close to reality as possible.

I use all the axis, because I found it nice and works well to also give a feeling when you move your head left/right, or closer/further from the dash. I find this really makes a difference when you look up at your mirror, and you tend to find yourself tilting your head and leaning into the corners a bit.... Also gives you the ability to just tilt your head down a bit to see the gauges.

Then, I found that when in game, I just look over to the right side of the monitor, and decide if I can see enough of what I want. For me, my target is for sure to see he mirror, and about half of the right window. I don't want to have to turn my head 'more' and keep my eyes on the monitor. So, if I'm not getting enough view to the right, I just bump up the 'speed' setting by 0.1. This just changes the movement ever so slightly across the range to give you a bit more virtual movement vs. real head movement. But it's subtle. I found that for most games 0.2 is good. And the most I've ever run it is 0.3 when I want to see more out the right side of the car.

Then, after I've got that all set, I found that I just bumped up the graph for the pitch slightly. So that I need less head movement to bring the gauges more clearly into view when I tilt my head down. Since the monitor is quite narrow top to bottom, I found a bit more on the pitch helps to avoid the dreaded 'keeping eyes forward' annoyance.

I really like the combination of the Track IR with the 32:9 monitor. But mainly because you already need to turn your head to see the edges anyway. So a larger/wider TV would be similar effect as long as it was more close to your driving position.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Hat passive clip works in full darkness as camera start acting as IR emitter. It just bright light sources behind that can throw it off.
Have to correct myself.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Seems like without playing with curves to the death, my best settings so far for 49" G9 are:
- Smooth profile (found deadzones on Default distracting, plus Smooth is what recommended by TrackIR for racing/flying sims)
- Speed 0.1
- Smooth 20
- Exclusive lock so title specific profile does not override
- Everything else on defaults

 

[Atak_Kat]

Looks very similar to mine. But my curves go dead flat across the graph. I assume your's has a small amount of snap or lock at the centre, which you may prefer.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

This is default curve of Smooth profile, and yes it's less jittery around center.

BTW, seems like TrackIR does not work with AC Real Head Motion enabled. But CSP NeckFX works just as good and does not interfere with TrackIR.

 

[maelstrom]

Delanclip wireless with camera and shipping is just few buks short of TrackIR5 cost, Headtrack price is not far off, just cheaper shipping.
And TrackIR Pro Clip is not light sensitive, just like any other solution with LEDs.
But DIY or any of these work almost as good as TrackIR5, but not better. I think software is the biggest advantage of TrackIR, it's ridiculosly easy and intuitive after OpenTrack.

Not sure where you’re getting your prices from but in the UK the basic TrackIR 5 costs anywhere between £120 and £160 depending on where you can find it. If you want it with the TrackClip Pro, your’e talking around £180. The Delan setup with everything you need (Gamer - Complete Kit) costs £64 delivered. Even if you opt for the (unnecessary) wireless clip, it’s still only half the price of the equivalent TrackIR kit.

I agree that the TrackClip Pro setup isn’t sensitive to lighting changes, but the basic Vector Clip is. If you’re happy to pay more than double the cost for a setup with software that doesn’t have a bit of a learning curve then go for it. Opentrack isn’t difficult to master and there are plenty of good resources around to help set it up. The end result is a more versatile piece of software with more options.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

TrakIR5 with Clip Pro from Amazon US was $169. 95.
Delanclip Fusion kit with camera is £77 + £26 shipping = £103
Based on PP conversion calculator it would cost $150.25

I might even grab some wireless tracker at some point, but after reading some user reviews seems like neither Delanclip Fusion or Headtrack are in particularly good, but have heard good things about UTC MkII, it doesn't come as kit though, only tracker, but if you have TrackIR5 camera, you don't need one, otherwise you'd need to source PS3Eye from somewhere else and mod it.

And yes, I've used or tried to use OpenTrack before, TrackIR in comparison is just click of a button to get going, and even advanced tuning is well documented and intuitive.

Anyway, been using TrackIR5 for a week already, can't be happier, very precise, instant tracking, no matter lighting conditions or sim. Plus the way it can work as wired or wireless is just ingenious.

I am sure other solutions work just as well, but as a whole package out of the box easy to use solution I personally didn't find TrackIR5 that much more expensive comparing to others. Also having company backing up the product vs single DIY guy that can vanish any day might be important for some (I've read Delanclip guy did not even bother responding to emails when batteries on some units started bulging).

BTW, do you guys think this portable power source will work for Pro clip? May be there are even more "portable" around.

 

[Atak_Kat]

BTW, do you guys think this portable power source will work for Pro clip? May be there are even more "portable" around.

Anything that power's USB in some way will work. There's only 2 wires in the connection and I'm sure you can just use any battery that would supply approx 5v (or whatever is normal usb voltage).
The power draw is very low, and I'm sure that will work. The only question is how long it will last, but my battery lasts so long, I'm sure something like that will be fine for more hours than you might need. I've been looking for something like that myself but they're not so popular here. I'm looking at various RC car batteries as well, but for this I don't really have a charger. The nice thing about a basic/small battery bank is that it's simple to charge as well.

Note, I did find some info (can't remember where) that suggested some power banks might turn themselves off automatically due to the low power draw. But the one I have is fine.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

TrakIR5 with Clip Pro from Amazon US was $169. 95.
Delanclip Fusion kit with camera is £77 + £26 shipping = £103
Based on PP conversion calculator it would cost $150.25

Would say a diy Edtracker is less than 30 US$
And no light requirement and no camera.

otherwise you'd need to source PS3Eye from somewhere else and mod it.

I have used all kinds of diy irtracker clones and never felt the need to mod the ps3 eye cam.
Think that is only need if you got sunlight in behind you .

Have you dropped VR?

 

[maelstrom]

TrakIR5 with Clip Pro from Amazon US was $169. 95.
Delanclip Fusion kit with camera is £77 + £26 shipping = £103
Based on PP conversion calculator it would cost $150.25

I'm assuming you're in the US. The cost of the TrackIR 5 with the TrackClip Pro is significantly less there than you'd pay for it in Europe and the shipping for the Delan kit is very expensive to the US. That combination makes the TrackIR a more attractive deal (but still more expensive). A better match for the TrackIR with the TrackClip pro would be the Delan Gamer Complete Kit which is much less expensive than the Fusion Kit you linked and, even with shipping, would be a much better buy. The shipping for the Delan kit here in the UK is only £4.40 which makes it even more of a bargain.