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Featured F1: Pirelli Issue Official Statement in Aftermath of Spa

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Chris Stacey, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    Pirelli drew hefty criticism after the previous Grand Prix in Belgium after numerous tyre failures marred the weekends racing. After a full track inspection and review into the weekends events, Pirelli have released an official statement of their findings, and hopes to work with the FIA in order to find a more effective means of cleaning the tracks.

    After a highly in-depth and detailed investigation, it appears Spa-Francorchamps circuit was not cleaned adequately enough resulting in 63 cuts to Formula One tyres over the course of the weekend, as opposed to an average of just 1.2 over the previous 15 events (10 races, 5 test sessions).

    Says Pirelli:

    "Following the recent technical analysis carried out on the tyres used at Spa, Pirelli concludes that:

    1) The tests carried out by Pirelli on the tyres used at Spa have confirmed the absence of any structural problems. Pirelli has undertaken in-depth analysis on the materials and production processes used, utilising two different methods of tests and checks.

    Microscopic analysis, carried out on a large number of the tyres after the second free practice session, showed no signs of fatigue or integrity issues. The same result was confirmed for the tyres used during the race, which were cross-sectioned and analysed in Milan. Some of the tyres used in the race were subjected to a further laboratory fatigue test, passing all the assessments conclusively and confirming that there was no structural degradation or problem on-track.

    Since the start of 2015, 13,748 slick tyres have been used: including on especially severe tracks like Sepang, Barcelona and Silverstone. No problems have ever been discovered, underlining the fundamental solidity of the product.

    2) The events of Spa can therefore be put down to external factors, linked with the prolonged use of the tyres on one of the most severe tracks of the championship.

    The external factors are demonstrated by a total of 63 cuts found in the tread of the Formula One tyres used over the course of the Spa weekend, following numerous incidents that took place during the support races before the Formula One grand prix. In the previous 15 events (10 races and five test sessions) an average of only 1.2 cuts per event were noted. All this indicates an anomalous amount of detritus on the track in Spa, with a consequent increased risk of encountering a foreign object.

    If even a small piece of debris – made of carbon or any other particularly sharp material – penetrates and cuts the various structural parts of a tyre (which is obviously subject to high-speed use, and more susceptible if used for a prolonged period) without penetrating the actual structure, this can cause a failure that is different to that found in the event of a normal puncture, which is characterised by a loss of tyre pressure. And the former was the type of event seen on Sebastian Vettel’s tyre at Spa.

    As for Nico Rosberg, in whose case the tyre usage was less, the tyre held up – as the footage clearly shows – and the failure was not instantaneous. For four corners previously, an element of the internal structure of the tyre was visible, coming out of the tread pattern. This highlighted the existence of the damage and the consequent start of the tyre’s attrition.

    Throughout the Spa weekend (including practice, qualifying and the race) cuts caused by debris were found on the tyres of other drivers, which damaged the construction but did not cause any failures.

    3) At the end of qualifying on Saturday at Spa, following the exceptional number of cuts noted to the tyres, Pirelli pointed out the condition of the circuit to the FIA and asked for it to be cleaned, as well as for the teams to be told. The FIA reacted promptly in arranging for the track to be cleaned and advising the teams.

    Together with the FIA, Pirelli proposes a study to evaluate the way in which circuits can be cleaned most effectively."​

    With the Italian Grand Prix coming up this weekend, the FIA, Pirelli, Teams and Drivers will all be pushing for a well swept Monza circuit.
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  2. It's always difficult to disprove the defendant when they're also the judge.
    Still BS.
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  3. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    I don't see why you shouldn't believe them. They've provided clear cut evidence (pun not intended, LOL) that the Spa circuit was inadequately cleaned, which is more than plausible when you consider the number of incidents that plagued the weekend. The track must have been a minefield of carbon fibre shards.

    It's worth remembering that Pirelli are one of the best tyre companies in the world with road and performance tyres. It's far more difficult to design a tyre that lasts for 15 laps than a tyre that lasts for an entire Grand Prix.

    Spa is by far the highest stress track for a set of tyres on the F1 calendar, combine that with debris-ridden surface and it wouldn't have mattered which compounds they brought. They could've brought the 2010 Bridgestone tyres and the same thing would've happened.

    I believe them, and I highly doubt we'll see anything like this happen again this season.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
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  4. The amount of corner cutting by Vettel was bull$hit.
    All four wheel out of the white lines up Eau-Rouge and never spoken about once on the BBC
    last I heard Pirelli test on Tarmac not dirt.

    Rosbergs failure was obvious 3 miles back down the road which makes me wonder why it was not picked up :confused: in allegedly the most high tech sport on the planet they cannot have AI keeping an eye on things humans miss :sleep: Bull$hit

    i was thinking about throwing my old 360 kinect camera in the bin but maybe I should start an appeal for another 19 then send them to either Bernie or the FIA :thumbsup: pureB
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  5. Andrew

    Global Moderator Staff Premium Member

    They will do at Monza ------>
    Pirellis newest Staff-Member ;)
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  6. Yes, but were all tires from the same batch/lot? If the tires with cuts from Spa were all from different lots than those other 13,748 slick tires, it could point to either a materials or process issue for that particular batch/lot. Now if the Spa tires were across multiple lots, and tires from those lots were used at other tracks with no issues, Pirelli may be on to something. But their statement, as written, isn't convincing from a materials and processes perspective.
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  7. Bernd Graf

    Bernd Graf
    Premium Member

    Love the Rosberg pic, Chris :D
  8. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    Makes sense to me and I also think when Vettel drives over the Kerb with all 4 wheels at Radillon 20-30 times at 280 kph his tyre warranty is voided.
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  9. Jeremy Talbot

    Jeremy Talbot
    Premium Member

    I actually feel kind of sorry for Pirelli. They've copped a lot of flak over the years for something that's essentially not their fault. If there should be any blame apportioned for what they have done it should be directed at the FIA as they have contracted them to do exactly what they have done.

    And with how these tires have exploded at Spa, the finger was pointed pretty quickly and angrily at Pirelli without any time for analysis.

    I quite like the fact that tyres don't last. It provides a bit more to the race that I believe you dont get if they last the whole race. I realise it was dangerous but Vettels tyre exploding caused a nice change to the final result.

    My two cents anyway :whistling:
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  10. All I can think of is

    I tend to believe them as I dont think they envisioned curbs every lap at every corner being taken/hit.
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  11. Andrew Scott

    Andrew Scott
    Premium Member

    What idiot in their right mind believes that race tyres aren't going to get hammered over kerbs, or pick up debris from the circuit after incidents.
    Pirelli are protecting their financial interests, you don't see this happening in other classes that run Pirelli's, and if memory serves the drivers have complained about the Pirelli's in the past.
    Maybe they and the FIA should stop trying to control every aspect of the F1 category, and just let the teams race, with tyres that will survive some abuse.
  12. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    No tyre can stand up to a carbon fibre shard getting lodged in it. It's absurd to expect otherwise.
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  13. Andrew Scott

    Andrew Scott
    Premium Member

    "No tyre" is a pretty strong statement, it would depend on the shard size too, all I'm saying is that it's a ridiculous point of view for Pirelli to even consider that the drivers won't be hammering over kerb's. It goes without saying that a tyre will sustain damage eg: cuts, when drivers are pushing the limits.
    The other point to consider is, which tyres, was it the softs only, or did the hards react in the same manner to the kerbs and/or debris, and self destruct also?
  14. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    I agree with you when you say that a tyre should be able to cope with kerb abuse, because that's just part and parcel of racing, but I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect a sharp piece of carbon fibre getting lodged into the tyre and not have any effect.

    When I say "no tyre", I mean no tyre that a Formula One car has ever used in the past, nor will ever reasonably use. Obviously a monster truck tyre could sustain a small carbon fibre shard and be okay because of how thick the rubber is. Lol.
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  15. Rob

    XBO: OctoberDusk06 Premium Member

    You said it so well. Only it's them in collusion with the FIA. Exploding tires need no explanation. When something serious happens and the courts start sifting through their records and emails with the FIA, all hell will break loose unless they stop this stupidity.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
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  16. Chris Stacey

    Chris Stacey
    Ted Kravitz Appreciation Society Staff Premium Member

    Nerker Rerthberk! :roflmao::p
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  17. FOM has released a statement on Pirelli saying in part:
    We are entirely satisfied that Pirelli was not at fault for any tyre-related incidents during the 2015 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix.

    Pirelli has offered to provide to each car a single set of tyres to last for an entire Event. While we know that they would be very capable of it, a race with no pit stops would be less exciting.

    The full statement can be found here:http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/headlines/2015/9/fom-statement-on-pirelli.html
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  18. While I don't believe the tyre is at fault, I do find it a bit poor that Pirelli jump to the conclusion that it is down to debris/rubbish on the track. Unless I am missing it, they seem to have completely overlooked the possibility that there are sharp curbs somewhere at Spa. With the wide line the cars were taking, they were very probably hitting bits of curb that are not usually driven on, and causing their own cuts.
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  19. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    This is a pretty strong statement too.

    Maybe they didn't expect a team that planned a one stop to abuse track limits at over 280KPH lap after lap.
    There is hammering kerbs and there is hammering kerbs. We have to remember that the kerbs are cunningly designed to not be tyre friendly nor car friendly as to deter their excessive use. Not to destroy them in one go but not be tyre friendly. If you take a bit of kerb on an unweighted wheel in a tight turn at 100 kph it has a different effect as taking all 4 wheels onto the kerb with 3 times the weight of the car due to the benefit of aero.

    Coultard reckons the tyres undergo a chemical change over time at running at 100+ deg. Maybe they get a bit more vulnerable after 200 kilometres of racing on the one set.

    My point is that if you decide to continually abuse track limits from a rules perspective and from a physical perspectice every single lap in the pursuit of the best possible lap time then maybe you aren't in a position to be the biggest gambler on the grid in tyre strategy.
    Kvyatt is a good example, they pushed hard with atyre hungry low aero set up and pitted 3 times.
    If a team decides to go for a 1 stop thy need to IMO look after their tyres in terms of damage as well as deg.

    So maybe there were no idiots. Maybe Pirelli believed that teams would either abuse their tyres and pit twice or more or look after them if they wanted to gamble and pit once. Vettel abused track limits and hits tyres.

    Edit: I dont read it that Pirelli jumped to conclusions.
  20. Rob

    XBO: OctoberDusk06 Premium Member

    And how old is Spa? Have you been there? (Not a knock, just wondering). I have. How long have Pirelli been going to Spa? How long has the FIA known about what tracks like Spa and Monza are like? See where I'm going with this? There *is* no such excuse as Pirelli and the FIA would have you believe. Either the FIA wanted to gamble with driver lives to liven up the pit numbers (they admitted to changing the compounds to be less conservative, even if there is such a thing as an "old" spec now) or this sort of thing could have easily been found out by testing, which is entirely under control of...the FIA. When a tire gets "cut" vs. "explodes" upon de-lamination, you know it. I know it. All race fans know it.

    Can someone explain why the FIA/Pirelli "solution" to Spa was downright insanity? See: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34141910. Isn't Pirelli supposed to know about....tires?

    Has anyone talked to the teams? The drivers? Of course the corporate whitewash by the FIA and Pirelli is meant for effect not for any real information. Calm the masses, etc. Vettel has been "debriefed" I'm sure, but his gut reaction is what I appreciate. He still is not "satisfied" as the papers say, stating, "the investigations have been going on, and the stuff that has been analysed and talked about explains some of it, maybe not all of it yet. It is still ongoing." Psst. Not according tot the press release, Seb.

    I'm not saying Pirelli did anything intentional, but this game of deflecting the blame in public makes me want to throw up.

    A point missed by many. Very well stated. This is not the "fault" of Pirelli, but two corporate bodies trying to rig a sport with the model of "ok guys, I'll pay you lots of money if you just gimme some tires that are fragile enough to need a change in seven laps." There have been other tire explosions too, by the way, in between Silverstone and Spa. It's just that nobody had the guts to speak up like Vettel did.

    Pirelli is not a "the best" tire maker because they supply F1. In fact, if I were Pirelli, I'd be worried about my reputation right about now. And F1 tracks aren't unique to debris (any kind) or g-force. If you really want to know how to make a tire that can withstand forces that pale in comparison to the F1 tracks, ask IndyCar. Their g-loads make F1 look like karting, and they happen four times a lap. Remember, g-loads are not just lateral, and involve a component of time. One race, Texas, has to be cancelled because of driver vertigo. This was on a NASCAR style oval with the fastest cars ever in the Series. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_Firehawk_600).

    Maybe F1 should just stick to "safe" tracks. I'm sure Tilke could do the job. :thumbsup:. We could have 20 China-type tracks per year. Yay.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
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