ER GTE's vs S397 GTE's

[Brent Mills]

Took part in the ER GTE race last night, and I have to say although the racing was close and fun, the car just feels totally ridiculous to me, and I'm wondering whether I'm driving a GT on slick tires or a rally car. The slip angles are just totally over the top in my view and really immersion breaking.

For those that have bought the endurance pack, how does S397's compare because I think that's the last time I drive the ER GTE's.

 

[JoelGL]

In what specific ways? I’ve gotten the opposite feedback re the Endurance pack, and that they’re quite good. Or the ‘ER’ you mention is different?

 

[Will Mazeo]

In what specific ways? I’ve gotten the opposite feedback re the Endurance pack, and that they’re quite good. Or the ‘ER’ you mention is different?

ER I think he meant Enduracers mod

I own the Endurance pack but can you believe I didnt do even 5 laps on it? lol
As I only race online I didnt find any league yet to use them so didnt do many laps other than checking graphic settings

 

[Brent Mills]

In what specific ways? I’ve gotten the opposite feedback re the Endurance pack, and that they’re quite good. Or the ‘ER’ you mention is different?

Yes I mean the Enduracers mod.

 

[BhZ]

Enduracers are broken. All is needed to find that out is to open motec and compare them to the endurance pack. Many values don't make any sense. You change stuff expecting a result but you get something completely different. The tires are completely off. They slide all over the place and continuous wheel corrections are needed to keep the car in place (and this is the fastest way to drive the car).
The reason why enduracers are so loved is that they offered the complete ELMS for free. A lot of people said that the cars are great and very simulative. The problem is that 99% of these people have no idea of how a gt car should handle, but they will still say they are realistic.
If all this doesn't convince anyone, just check some onboard videos of real life and compare it with the way you have to drive an enduracers.
@Brent Mills I am done with enduracers as well. I was before they announced the endurance pack and even more now that we got that awesome pack.

 

[RasmusP]

Enduracers are broken. All is needed to find that out is to open motec and compare them to the endurance pack.

You mean constantly negative ride height in the ER LMP3 doesn't make sense? How could you think that!

My 2 cents: the mod is great, as in "great and passionate work to give them to us for free just because they want to". Who am I to stomp that to the ground?
But the official content is just a class ahead as a matter of fact. Just not really comparable!

 

[Will Mazeo]

The problem is that 99% of these people have no idea of how a gt car should handle, but they will still say they are realistic.

This is the reality of the whole sim racing community, reason why some people manage to release a sim without basic stuff like brake temperatures and still sell hundreds of thousands of copies...

 

[Doug62]

Isn't it possible that the Porsche as per the example mentioned are different because they are different?
Different model, Different year, Different aero package.
The Oreca 07
ER have as the newest offering the 05 were the S397 car is the 07. They are so different just to look at let alone how different the two would be to drive even IRL.
Isn't the S397 07 a LMP1? Were all the prototypes in the ER mod none are over LMP2. So should LMP2 cars that are based on up to 2016 configuration match on track a 2018 configured LMP1?

So really none off the cars in the Enduro Pack would or should compare to any in the ER mod.

Either way, Run each mod as a standalone and don't mix 2016 cars with 2018 and everyone is in the same boat regardless of whether some think they know how a real car drives or doesn't.

Sim racers seam to think they know it all and are so inclined that they'd even argue with a real race car driver.

I find all this compared too, My opinion is, a load of retired neighbours who are so board they've got nothing better to do but complain about everything and anything just to give their life some sort meaning.

 

[RasmusP]

Isn't it possible that the Porsche as per the example mentioned are different because they are different?
Different model, Different year, Different aero package.
The Oreca 07
ER have as the newest offering the 05 were the S397 car is the 07. They are so different just to look at let alone how different the two would be to drive even IRL.
Isn't the S397 07 a LMP1? Were all the prototypes in the ER mod none are over LMP2. So should LMP2 cars that are based on up to 2016 configuration match on track a 2018 configured LMP1?

So really none off the cars in the Enduro Pack would or should compare to any in the ER mod.

Either way, Run each mod as a standalone and don't mix 2016 cars with 2018 and everyone is in the same boat regardless of whether some think they know how a real car drives or doesn't.

Sim racers seam to think they know it all and are so inclined that they'd even argue with a real race car driver.

I find all this compared too, My opinion is, a load of retired neighbours who are so board they've got nothing better to do but complain about everything and anything just to give their life some sort meaning.

It's not about the difference in the cars and not about that that might be due to different specs.
It's about how detailed they are and how much sense they make on their own. How the setup influences tyre wear, how different camber reacts etc etc.

As stated above, the ER Lmp3 outputs negative ride heights all the time. Just one thing that absolutely does not make sense and is just a plain error with that car as the rF2 physics engine thinks that car is running below the tarmac!
It doesn't scrap the surface while driving though, of course. But some invisible part or just a value is plain wrong.

And if you really analyze the mod vs the official Pack you'll find more of these things. It's just the package as a whole that is not on the same level. No matter if a sim racer finds one car to drive "more real" or anything.

That said no one says the ER mod is garbage or anything! It's awesome work and even for free. It's enjoyable and we all respect their work. But compared to the official pack it's just not on the same level.

 

[BhZ]

Isn't it possible that the Porsche as per the example mentioned are different because they are different?
Different model, Different year, Different aero package.
The Oreca 07
ER have as the newest offering the 05 were the S397 car is the 07. They are so different just to look at let alone how different the two would be to drive even IRL.
Isn't the S397 07 a LMP1? Were all the prototypes in the ER mod none are over LMP2. So should LMP2 cars that are based on up to 2016 configuration match on track a 2018 configured LMP1?

So really none off the cars in the Enduro Pack would or should compare to any in the ER mod.

Either way, Run each mod as a standalone and don't mix 2016 cars with 2018 and everyone is in the same boat regardless of whether some think they know how a real car drives or doesn't.

Sim racers seam to think they know it all and are so inclined that they'd even argue with a real race car driver.

I find all this compared too, My opinion is, a load of retired neighbours who are so board they've got nothing better to do but complain about everything and anything just to give their life some sort meaning.

Both ER and s397 are lmp2. The cars are different models, yes, but that doesn't explain why the ER lmp2 has 0 ride height in the telemetry. It doesnt explain why a car like an lmp2, with so much downforce feels like a road car in the way it floats on track. It should resemble a formula car rather than a boat. The gte cars are the same, even more floaty for obvious reasons. That said, when the cars are so badly done, you dont need a real race driver to see that the car is sitting on the tarmac in the telemetry and that the tires make no sense, that the downforce is not as effective as it should, although it's still a tire problem. As i said, ER was great because it was the only mod to offer the ELMS, but now that s397 released similar cars, there is no reason why anyone should prefer the ER.

 

[Will Mazeo]

Isn't it possible that the Porsche as per the example mentioned are different because they are different?
Different model, Different year, Different aero package.
The Oreca 07
ER have as the newest offering the 05 were the S397 car is the 07. They are so different just to look at let alone how different the two would be to drive even IRL.
Isn't the S397 07 a LMP1? Were all the prototypes in the ER mod none are over LMP2. So should LMP2 cars that are based on up to 2016 configuration match on track a 2018 configured LMP1?

So really none off the cars in the Enduro Pack would or should compare to any in the ER mod.

Either way, Run each mod as a standalone and don't mix 2016 cars with 2018 and everyone is in the same boat regardless of whether some think they know how a real car drives or doesn't.

Sim racers seam to think they know it all and are so inclined that they'd even argue with a real race car driver.

I find all this compared too, My opinion is, a load of retired neighbours who are so board they've got nothing better to do but complain about everything and anything just to give their life some sort meaning.

Well yeah, the current Porsche GTE is mid engined (and according to rules should be illegal but ACO prefer to have them in the class) so wont behave like a pendulum as every Porsche do. And current gen GTE and P2 cars have a lot more downforce than past gen.

But I think the problem with Enduracers is that the car feels disconnected from the asphalt, it's not really about grip.

 

[BhZ]

Well yeah, the current Porsche GTE is mid engined (and according to rules should be illegal but ACO prefer to have them in the class) so wont behave like a pendulum as every Porsche do. And current gen GTE and P2 cars have a lot more downforce than past gen.

But I think the problem with Enduracers is that the car feels disconnected from the asphalt, it's not really about grip.

It's not about felling or grip in general. It's about the physics. The car shouldnt be that floaty. Bad physics generate bad ffb. Bad ffb is what gives you a bad feeling, like the car being disconnected from the tarmac.

 

[Augusto Dufloth]

Simple matter of aerodynamics. If ride height = 0 or negative you have zero ground effect, or what could be worse if the aero lookup tables are not clipped, extrapolated wrong ground effect.

That simply would explain the boat like effect

 

[MPortnoy]

Do yourself a favor and buy the Endurance pack. Night and day vs ER imho.
Even though I always appreciate the efforts done by modders, some are just better than others at what they do and I've never found ER mods to have realistic physics/handling, the Endurance pack cars however drive just like I'd imagine them in real life. Best money I've spent in a long time

 

[Boby Kim]

A lot of people said that the cars are great and very simulative. The problem is that 99% of these people have no idea of how a gt car should handle, but they will still say they are realistic.

So...when i go to a circuit and drive a real GT car, then afterwards step behind my PC, behind my 2D screen and game, G-forces being replaced by FFB, static in my chair, realism being realised with a I7 4790K 16 mb ram and a GTC 980ti...i should be able to tell if the rF2 cars come close to realism...

 

[BhZ]

So...when i go to a circuit and drive a real GT car, then afterwards step behind my PC, behind my 2D screen and game, G-forces being replaced by FFB, static in my chair, realism being realised with a I7 4790K 16 mb ram and a GTC 980ti...i should be able to tell if the rF2 cars come close to realism...

Yes you can to some extent. ER are so far from reality that even a simple onboard video is enough to tell. If that isnt enough, you can always check the data. Then if you want to believe that no one can tell if a car is realistic or not, why dont we all race on forza motorsport on a 30 euros wheel... After all, we can't tell the difference anyway.