Discussion | Direct Drive Wheels: The Good, Bad And The Ugly

[Paul Jeffrey]

Discussion time! Direct Drive wheels are becoming increasingly common in sim racing, but which one should you get?

Long gone are the days of just one or two niche manufacturers developing DD wheel solutions for a hardcore few. In 2020, the discerning sim racer has a wealth of choice when looking to make the switch to Direct Drive... but with so many options, and such a high price point, what constitutes a good purchase?

I am not going to even try and pretend I am an expert on all the different DD bases available today, far from it in fact, so I thought it worth throwing up this thread for our community to discuss their own experiences, and offer up advice to those still thinking over their next steps.

For the record, I run the Bodnar SimSteering V2 and absolutely love it; however at the price point they are asking, you will probably want to follow the route I took and purchase it second hand!

 

[Case_]

where the common advice I'd see everywhere, to get the most detail out of G25 and G27 wheels, was to set overall strength to 100 - 107%, with Spring and Damper set to 0%. This was done because G27 had inherent dampening due to its design, so adding more would reduce detail quite a bit.

No, that was (and still is by a huge amount of people to this day, sadly) done simply because people who share this advice don't understand how spring and damper works and therefore think that if they leave the sliders at their default values, they will somehow get worse FFB in game. (They will not.)

 

[passenger]

Wheel drove brilliantly! I'm mostly driving via stereo speakers and not with headphones on so thr coil whine drove me nuts.
Also the Ferrari Edition rim crackled a little under load.
But the driving itself: awesome!
Here are 2 videos showing the coil whine and why I find the csw to be a step up in quality:

You can get rid of that noise by lubricating some parts of the gears. There are videos on that.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

Wheel drove brilliantly! I'm mostly driving via stereo speakers and not with headphones on so thr coil whine drove me nuts.
Also the Ferrari Edition rim crackled a little under load.
But the driving itself: awesome!
Here are 2 videos showing the coil whine and why I find the csw to be a step up in quality:

lol, you do have a point. That whine in the first video ...

 

[thebaz]

I am a recent sim racer (bought my first wheel, a G27, on September 2017)... Every three/four mounths I am considering to switch from my actual TS-PC to a DD base... But I am really happy with my base I spent so much time to configure it and I love modding rims (I have a lot of them with the Quick Release mod from Peter Makes Things)...
I had fun in the past on real circuits and racing carst, I will have others when the lock-down ends... I think I am already having a good experience with my configuration (TS-PC + HE Sprint pedals)... I am sure I would get that 5% more, but I am ok with the actual situation...
TS-PC, TS-XW, T-GT (they share the same hardware) are absolutely underrated... I tried a CSW 2.5, it's not superior: this statement is generally said by someone who used just a wheel, not both.

Would I try a DD wheel? For sure! Maybe one day I will be able to be at the Sim Racing Expo and eventually change my opinion

 

[Steve Quinn]

I am a recent sim racer (bought my first wheel, a G27, on September 2017)... Every three/four mounths I am considering to switch from my actual TS-PC to a DD base... But I am really happy with my base I spent so much time to configure it and I love modding rims (I have a lot of them with the Quick Release mod from Peter Makes Things)...
I had fun in the past on real circuits and racing carst, I will have others when the lock-down ends... I think I am already having a good experience with my configuration (TS-PC + HE Sprint pedals)... I am sure I would get that 5% more, but I am ok with the actual situation...
TS-PC, TS-XW, T-GT (they share the same hardware) are absolutely underrated... I tried a CSW 2.5, it's not superior: this statement is generally said by someone who used just a wheel, not both.

Would I try a DD wheel? For sure! Maybe one day I will be able to be at the Sim Racing Expo and eventually change my opinion

I have the TS-PC and HE sprints and find this a fantastic setup. Likewise, I'm very much into modding rims so don't use any of the thrustmaster stuff. But I do keep looking at going for a Simucube 2 Sport - I probably go back and forth every couple of weeks on whether to just order one! In all honesty I think much of it comes down to me wanting cool new stuff (something that looks cool) do I actually need it - absolutely not. That said, I've also never tried a DD wheel so there's a kind of mystery or excitement there as to what it would be like - opinions do seem to vary between some saying it's night and day and other saying it's marginal. I guess the best way to test this out is to try it yourself.

I was actually lucky to get the TS-PC base cheap. Bought the base and rim on ebay for £235 and then sold the open wheel rim for £115 (before TM starting selling this separately). So I paid £120 for the base. Granted it was a bit scratched up and needed a clean but it's been flawless under heavy use for the past 6 months. So when I consider this base cost me 120 quid and a SImucube 2 Sport will likely be £1100 (plus around extra £150 for another 3 QRs for my other rims - under appreciated advantage of TM is the ability to 3D print QRs for under a tenner each) then it's 100% probably not a worthwhile upgrade for me - I don't expect it to be over 1k better than what I have now.

That said, I do probably fall under the same category as others where you understand that 5% more immersion is not a cost effective one - you do it because you can afford to or you're looking to maximize immersion as much as you can.

In reality, with the TS-PC I do not ever really feel that there's something I'm hugely missing out on - it works really well - has plenty of strength to handle custom rims and, for me at least, has been fairly reliable so far. Would that change if I tried a DD wheel, perhaps but in my ignorant bliss just now I'm thoroughly enjoying my setup as it is now.

 

[RasmusP]

You can get rid of that noise by lubricating some parts of the gears. There are videos on that.

That's nice to read! If I ever happen to come across a ts-pc again that makes these noises I'm hopefully remember this!
With my freshly bought ts-pc and then the replacement, I didn't really feel like opening it up and playing with lubricants.
I wanted a round rim and the cheapest ts-pc ferrari I could find was 549€ at Amazon. I then found the xbox one comp. pack from Fanatec (csw 2.5, alcantara plastic rim, 2-pedal csl set) for 699€. Sadly it costs 799€ since over a year now...
150€ for nicer pedals with the possibility of getting the loadcell for 120€ later and a higher end wheelbase I went for it and never looked back.

At 799€ now.. I probably would try to lubricate my ts-pc

 

[thebaz]

In all honesty I think much of it comes down to me wanting cool new stuff (something that looks cool) do I actually need it - absolutely not.

Your definition is perfect to describe how I feel! Also when you said you go back and forth on whether to order or not. To give you a example: I even pre-ordered the VRS DD wheel, then I canceled... Then considered it again...

I am sure I will be happy If I order a DD wheel; but the question is: will I be happy after having used it for two or three weeks or would I regret to have bought it because of the small difference I eventually feel?

;-)

 

[MarkR]

Want (even lust after) versus need is a good description of the DD wheel dilemma. I mean all those lovely buttons, switches, dials, wheels and sprung paddles to play with, who can resist. I can only speak to the Fanatec packaging but each flap that you open on the box has a message about how special this item you've just paid a small fortune for is. This is the same clever marketing and feel-good factor of a high-end watch.

The high-end watch analogy holds up well too. All watches tell the time, the more expensive one doesn't tell the time any better or make you perform better (some are slightly more accurate for longer maybe) but the watch might well make you feel good. The nocebo effect is strong with flashy objects.

Post-purchase rationalisation then makes us say positive things about the expensive stuff we've bought. For those who want to really know the truth about how much 'better' the DD wheel is than their previous kit a back to back test is the only way to really know. You might not want to do that though because it does tend to burst the 'expensive is better' bubble. Any 'gain' in lap time I think I've found on the DD wheel I've been able to replicate on both the Logi, TX and, depending on the game, controller. I'll admit though I'd rather be holding the DD2 wheel in terms of subjective feel but the TX wheelbase and 599XX wheel isn't far behind and remains fully enjoyable (and the TH8A shifter and Handbrake both feel higher quality than the Fanatec versions).

I'd encourage more critical thinking about the YouTubers too. If a review is based on an all-expenses-paid trip or the 'free' long term loan of a wheel it's important to note that because reciprocity means that person is likely to give a much more positive review - that's why Steam has the product received for free option in reviews. If you've made the decision your preferred 'Tuber is immune from such bias that is your choice to make, however, they are not journalists and are bound by no code and rarely subject to any counterbalance. Those who declare their sponsorships upfront get top marks from me, many don't. Most of the popular racing game YouTubers are trading on likability which is another well-known influencing technique, the likes of Tupperware used to sell millions of products to housewives using saleswomen who were 'just like them'. The current popular trend is for the 'Tubers to make themselves appear like your friend and a normal gamer with no agenda, "trust me, I'm a friendly matey bloke just like you". They didn't invent the technique, it's effective and I can't fault them for using it. I'd just caution too much belief that they don't have an agenda - this is how they earn their income, it's about, clicks, likes followers, advertising and sponsors - those logos are more carefully placed than you might want to believe. Brand awareness and putting that thought in your head for the next time you search the web is the objective.

During my own deliberation about whether spending £2500+ on a wheel was really justifiable - even with man maths it still really isn't - I asked GamerMuscle directly if he would actually buy a DD wheel with his own money (at that time and afaik to this day) he is using a DD wheel supplied by a sponsor. At first, he declined to answer but when he did he was non-committal about the 'advantages' and simply said he'd need to be earning more than he did at that time. That remains the way I see DD wheels, lovely to have and hold if you have the cash just like a high-end watch. Even though I know the performance difference is marginal it wouldn't stop me from wanting a DD wheel again if I hadn't bought one - such is the irrationality of being a human with emotions as well as logic!

 

[GP20]

The TS-PC is probably the best bang for the buck.

I never got one but i was shocked when i saw that the T300 had all the details that i have now with the DD1 or the SW10C+.

They all get the same datas from the game and for me Thrustmaster process all of them.
That's what could make a difference.

Then of course DD wheels are more reactiv (and the simplicity is more reactiv than the DD1).

 

[CC]

Want (even lust after) versus need is a good description of the DD wheel dilemma. I mean all those lovely buttons, switches, dials, wheels and sprung paddles to play with, who can resist. I can only speak to the Fanatec packaging but each flap that you open on the box has a message about how special this item you've just paid a small fortune for is. This is the same clever marketing and feel-good factor of a high-end watch.

The high-end watch analogy holds up well too. All watches tell the time, the more expensive one doesn't tell the time any better or make you perform better (some are slightly more accurate for longer maybe) but the watch might well make you feel good. The nocebo effect is strong with flashy objects.

Post-purchase rationalisation then makes us say positive things about the expensive stuff we've bought. For those who want to really know the truth about how much 'better' the DD wheel is than their previous kit a back to back test is the only way to really know. You might not want to do that though because it does tend to burst the 'expensive is better' bubble. Any 'gain' in lap time I think I've found on the DD wheel I've been able to replicate on both the Logi, TX and, depending on the game, controller. I'll admit though I'd rather be holding the DD2 wheel in terms of subjective feel but the TX wheelbase and 599XX wheel isn't far behind and remains fully enjoyable (and the TH8A shifter and Handbrake both feel higher quality than the Fanatec versions).

I'd encourage more critical thinking about the YouTubers too. If a review is based on an all-expenses-paid trip or the 'free' long term loan of a wheel it's important to note that because reciprocity means that person is likely to give a much more positive review - that's why Steam has the product received for free option in reviews. If you've made the decision your preferred 'Tuber is immune from such bias that is your choice to make, however, they are not journalists and are bound by no code and rarely subject to any counterbalance. Those who declare their sponsorships upfront get top marks from me, many don't. Most of the popular racing game YouTubers are trading on likability which is another well-known influencing technique, the likes of Tupperware used to sell millions of products to housewives using saleswomen who were 'just like them'. The current popular trend is for the 'Tubers to make themselves appear like your friend and a normal gamer with no agenda, "trust me, I'm a friendly matey bloke just like you". They didn't invent the technique, it's effective and I can't fault them for using it. I'd just caution too much belief that they don't have an agenda - this is how they earn their income, it's about, clicks, likes followers, advertising and sponsors - those logos are more carefully placed than you might want to believe. Brand awareness and putting that thought in your head for the next time you search the web is the objective.

During my own deliberation about whether spending £2500+ on a wheel was really justifiable - even with man maths it still really isn't - I asked GamerMuscle directly if he would actually buy a DD wheel with his own money (at that time and afaik to this day) he is using a DD wheel supplied by a sponsor. At first, he declined to answer but when he did he was non-committal about the 'advantages' and simply said he'd need to be earning more than he did at that time. That remains the way I see DD wheels, lovely to have and hold if you have the cash just like a high-end watch. Even though I know the performance difference is marginal it wouldn't stop me from wanting a DD wheel again if I hadn't bought one - such is the irrationality of being a human with emotions as well as logic!

Instead of a watch maybe the best analogy would be a sleeping pillow,
Buy a 5/10$ pillow compared to a 40/50$ pillow,
You go to sleep they both do the same job,
But yet one is lumpy bad notchy and the other one is butter smooth like silk,
people who can’t afford a 50$ pillow will argue blind that there 5$ pillow is the dogs bollox when in reality we all know deep down it’s not really,
This argument does not exist just with DD wheels you can apply the same analogy to almost anything in life,
Just depends where your priorities are I suppose,
I don’t think any wheel will make you faster or slower it’s more about reaction time responsiveness of the feedback,
Anyways really interesting thread very enjoyable reading.

 

[MarkR]

Instead of a watch maybe the best analogy would be a sleeping pillow,
Buy a 5/10$ pillow compared to a 40/50$ pillow,
You go to sleep they both do the same job,
But yet one is lumpy bad notchy and the other one is butter smooth like silk,
people who can’t afford a 50$ pillow will argue blind that there 5$ pillow is the dogs bollox when in reality we all know deep down it’s not really,
This argument does not exist just with DD wheels you can apply the same analogy to almost anything in life,
Just depends where your priorities are I suppose,
I don’t think any wheel will make you faster or slower it’s more about reaction time responsiveness of the feedback,
Anyways really interesting thread very enjoyable reading.

I like your analogy, I agree a good pillow and mattress have similar marginal gains. It's well-known that Team Sky carries particular mattresses and pillows around the world to help the cyclists get better rest and sleep. Team Sky is, of course, a well funded and professional cycling team so as you rightly say - priorities - and means play a big part in the decision.

The real race drivers using these wheels to get close to the same feeling I can certainly understand - a single set of discs and pads likely cost more than a DD wheel setup. However, I wouldn't want to encourage anyone spending money they don't have in expectation of bigger gains than there really are. Keyboard to Gamepad to Xbox Elite type Gamepad is closer in price to the pillow analogy. Gamepad to gear/belt FFB wheel is a huge jump in immersion if smaller in terms of (any?) time gained but the enjoyment of a driving game surely increases hugely, FFB wheel to DD wheel is a big leap in quality and another marginal gain in performance.

On a slightly tongue in cheek note, a few years ago I decided that I'd rather keep the aircon in my Megane R26.R track car and lose a couple of kg myself so that I could stay cool on hot track days, so yep priorities, man maths and toys!

Thanks for the friendly tone of your reply too, appreciated

 

[CC]

I like your analogy, I agree a good pillow and mattress have similar marginal gains. It's well-known that Team Sky carries particular mattresses and pillows around the world to help the cyclists get better rest and sleep. Team Sky is, of course, a well funded and professional cycling team so as you rightly say - priorities - and means play a big part in the decision.

The real race drivers using these wheels to get close to the same feeling I can certainly understand - a single set of discs and pads likely cost more than a DD wheel setup. However, I wouldn't want to encourage anyone spending money they don't have in expectation of bigger gains than there really are. Keyboard to Gamepad to Xbox Elite type Gamepad is closer in price to the pillow analogy. Gamepad to gear/belt FFB wheel is a huge jump in immersion if smaller in terms of (any?) time gained but the enjoyment of a driving game surely increases hugely, FFB wheel to DD wheel is a big leap in quality and another marginal gain in performance.

On a slightly tongue in cheek note, a few years ago I decided that I'd rather keep the aircon in my Megane R26.R track car and lose a couple of kg myself so that I could stay cool on hot track days, so yep priorities, man maths and toys!

Thanks for the friendly tone of your reply too, appreciated

I don’t really think anyone should be wasting 1000,s of euros on silly things they don’t need, I own a decent setup main gripe I have is my wheel although it’s dead smooth cornering and the centre position sometimes been notchy + the clipping with higher FFB just seems a nightmare, I purchased a DD2 but not because I hope will make me faster just want something more precise, better response and more detail,
It’s a pity they are so expensive but the wheels better than the one I own a CSL are all DD and stupid money, at least the DD2 as a 5 year warranty which is pretty cool,
If you play 1hr a day for 5 years and look at it like it’s costing you 1$ per day the wheel cost nothing in reality it’s just the perspective or mentality you have to place on something,
Some people maybe play 5/6hrs a day some more some less, I mean over 5 years I think personally it’s a bargain, just to put things in perspective each day on water alone I spend more than 1$

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

each day on water alone I spend more than 1$

that will be my quote of the day and actually sounds like a perfect sentence to finish this thread on.

 

[kondor999]

I have a TS-XW and had the chance to try a Simucube 2 Pro.

Honestly, I don't get it. Both wheels provide pretty much the same information. There was maybe a 5-10% difference, and I'm not even sure which was better. They are just...different. Made no difference to my lap times or ability to control the car in rF2 or AC.

Sometimes I think we're buying expensive hardware to compensate for the fact that several of our sims are more difficult to control than a real car (tires whose grip drops off way too fast with slip angle). This makes "counter-steering speed" more important than it is IRL.

 

[Kevin Troschinski]

The TS-PC is probably the best bang for the buck.

I never got one but i was shocked when i saw that the T300 had all the details that i have now with the DD1 or the SW10C+.

They all get the same datas from the game and for me Thrustmaster process all of them.
That's what could make a difference.

Then of course DD wheels are more reactiv (and the simplicity is more reactiv than the DD1).

Just one question. How much is the TS-PC superior to the T300 ?? What are the differences ?

I mean back in 2008 when is started "serious" simracing (online leagues) i bought a Logitech G25 and was using it for almost 10 years !
It´s still alive but retired ^^ 2018 i got the T300 Ferrari Alcantara Editon with T500RS shifter and i am still absolutely happy. Compared to the good old G25 it was a huge step for me.

My simracing is limited to about 5-8 hours a week now (singleplayer only) so i don`t realy need anything better (money is limited too due a wife and kids ....but those TS-PC is sexy ...but over 500€

 

[metalnwood]

Want (even lust after) versus need is a good description of the DD wheel dilemma. I mean all those lovely buttons, switches, dials, wheels and sprung paddles to play with, who can resist. I can only speak to the Fanatec packaging but each flap that you open on the box has a message about how special this item you've just paid a small fortune for is. This is the same clever marketing and feel-good factor of a high-end watch.

The high-end watch analogy holds up well too. All watches tell the time, the more expensive one doesn't tell the time any better or make you perform better (some are slightly more accurate for longer maybe) but the watch might well make you feel good. The nocebo effect is strong with flashy objects.

Post-purchase rationalisation then makes us say positive things about the expensive stuff we've bought. For those who want to really know the truth about how much 'better' the DD wheel is than their previous kit a back to back test is the only way to really know. You might not want to do that though because it does tend to burst the 'expensive is better' bubble. Any 'gain' in lap time I think I've found on the DD wheel I've been able to replicate on both the Logi, TX and, depending on the game, controller. I'll admit though I'd rather be holding the DD2 wheel in terms of subjective feel but the TX wheelbase and 599XX wheel isn't far behind and remains fully enjoyable (and the TH8A shifter and Handbrake both feel higher quality than the Fanatec versions).

I'd encourage more critical thinking about the YouTubers too. If a review is based on an all-expenses-paid trip or the 'free' long term loan of a wheel it's important to note that because reciprocity means that person is likely to give a much more positive review - that's why Steam has the product received for free option in reviews. If you've made the decision your preferred 'Tuber is immune from such bias that is your choice to make, however, they are not journalists and are bound by no code and rarely subject to any counterbalance. Those who declare their sponsorships upfront get top marks from me, many don't. Most of the popular racing game YouTubers are trading on likability which is another well-known influencing technique, the likes of Tupperware used to sell millions of products to housewives using saleswomen who were 'just like them'. The current popular trend is for the 'Tubers to make themselves appear like your friend and a normal gamer with no agenda, "trust me, I'm a friendly matey bloke just like you". They didn't invent the technique, it's effective and I can't fault them for using it. I'd just caution too much belief that they don't have an agenda - this is how they earn their income, it's about, clicks, likes followers, advertising and sponsors - those logos are more carefully placed than you might want to believe. Brand awareness and putting that thought in your head for the next time you search the web is the objective.

During my own deliberation about whether spending £2500+ on a wheel was really justifiable - even with man maths it still really isn't - I asked GamerMuscle directly if he would actually buy a DD wheel with his own money (at that time and afaik to this day) he is using a DD wheel supplied by a sponsor. At first, he declined to answer but when he did he was non-committal about the 'advantages' and simply said he'd need to be earning more than he did at that time. That remains the way I see DD wheels, lovely to have and hold if you have the cash just like a high-end watch. Even though I know the performance difference is marginal it wouldn't stop me from wanting a DD wheel again if I hadn't bought one - such is the irrationality of being a human with emotions as well as logic!

Hi Mark, I appreciate your posts as taking a rational point of view regards to DD wheels but do think it won't be true for everyone. I think you used the 5% in your first post and since then I have seen a few people reference it by asking themselves are DD's really worth the 5%? In this page on the thread some saying yeah, it's only 5% but they just want cool stuff.

In something like simracing I believe there really is a difference between what something gives you on track and what something gives you as far as fun. It's true that a lot of experienced racers may say they didnt get much improvement in performance or track time. It's fair that people realise this fact if thats what they want from their purchase.

If that was the only measure of it's worth then a lot less of them would sell I imagine. 5% or less at that price, why would you? So it's quite a narrow measure of worth because I don't think it's what most of us get from one. Ask most if it has improved their enjoyment from increased immersion and 5% usually goes out the window, the number is quite a bit higher.

Of course this is where it gets a little subjective because some people can get big gains in improvement. I have heard that some people for the first time started to feel what was going on after getting a DD. Most of us know how to drive and how to try and handle a car. Some don't and needed that help. To us it might seem that they should know better but it is what it is. I can't write that off because I hated the v8 supercars in iracing.. They are still from my favourite but when I got my DD they were a car that finally startedt to make some sense with the better feedback I was getting. I was an experienced racer so I can't argue that some people will get big gains. I think these people could go back to their old wheel with what they have learned and start to keep their times.


If you dont have the $$ to buy one, you shouldnt borrow to get one. Thats standard financial advise no matter how good a wheel might be. I wouldn't (though I admit it took years to personally obey this wisdom!). If you have the $$ and you don't mind spending it then go for it, it might not make you faster depending on your current skill but you would absolutely be in the minority if it only added 5% to your enjoyment of the sim.

 

[LagunaSeca]

If a review is based on an all-expenses-paid trip or the 'free' long term loan of a wheel it's important to note that because reciprocity means that person is likely to give a much more positive review

That is why we all love Barry, because he has less bullshit and more screwdrivers, which open the product and let us see the inside wiring/mechanics. Then we can use both his comments and the facts to make judgements.

Luxury watch is actually a very lucky field because nowadays a electronic watch is more accurate than a mechanical one and can be purchases at a fraction of the price. Another good example is electric guitars, like epiphone vs Gibson, LTD VS ESP and squier vs fender. For those who are not familiar with my example, epiphone is the lower end version of Gibson that offers guitars that look the same except finish/wood and the shape of the headstock. You can fool an experienced player in a blind test to make them fail to tell which one is Gibson or Epiphone, using the same amp/settings.

In both cases, luxury watches and electric guitars have settled with time. People now are welcome to throw money if they want but less capable buyers won't have to buy a less accurate watch. Well a casio is actually more accurate than a Patek Patek Philippe if that casio can sync with the atomic clock. I call that fairness. Also, epiphone users can start off playing guitars without any disadvantages until the point they feel that their skills match the ownership of a true Gibson. Though Gibson is superior to Epiphone in almost every way, as a single coil fender guy I sometimes fail the blind test.

Let's just wait for the day that this niche market is mature enough and there will be a non-DD, affordable product that tricks experienced players in a blindfold test. Maybe that will never come but hey, maybe in the future you can afford to race in real life, who knows.

 

[Copef1]

That is why we all love Barry, because he has less bullshit and more screwdrivers, which open the product and let us see the inside wiring/mechanics. Then we can use both his comments and the facts to make judgements.

Luxury watch is actually a very lucky field because nowadays a electronic watch is more accurate than a mechanical one and can be purchases at a fraction of the price. Another good example is electric guitars, like epiphone vs Gibson, LTD VS ESP and squier vs fender. For those who are not familiar with my example, epiphone is the lower end version of Gibson that offers guitars that look the same except finish/wood and the shape of the headstock. You can fool an experienced player in a blind test to make them fail to tell which one is Gibson or Epiphone, using the same amp/settings.

In both cases, luxury watches and electric guitars have settled with time. People now are welcome to throw money if they want but less capable buyers won't have to buy a less accurate watch. Well a casio is actually more accurate than a Patek Patek Philippe if that casio can sync with the atomic clock. I call that fairness. Also, epiphone users can start off playing guitars without any disadvantages until the point they feel that their skills match the ownership of a true Gibson. Though Gibson is superior to Epiphone in almost every way, as a single coil fender guy I sometimes fail the blind test.

Let's just wait for the day that this niche market is mature enough and there will be a non-DD, affordable product that tricks experienced players in a blindfold test. Maybe that will never come but hey, maybe in the future you can afford to race in real life, who knows.

Its funny, if you go on guitar forums you will see similar arguments to what you see here. A lot of people think that the Epiphones are better, especially lately with all the quality control issues, and PR issues that Gibson has had. Personally I am with you, I like my Fender Strat, and Fender Tele better than my Epiphone Les Paul, but I realize that opinions vary. If you like your TS-PC racer, then rock that, but there is no reason to scoff at those who like their DD wheel. A 5% difference to you, may be a 100% difference to someone else. I hear people talking about some DD wheel buyers post purchase rationalizations, but I think that works both ways. if you read through this thread I think you see people trying to rationalize not buying a DD wheel simply because they cant afford it. At the end of the day you can justify your decision on weather to buy a DD wheel or not to buy a DD wheel how ever you want, but its simply your opinion, and not fact

 

[JonnyCombat]

I don't know about you guys but my place is already getting pretty cluttered with peripherals from all the previous upgrading (2-3 Hotas systems, a couple of wheels, old monitors, graphics cards, speakers, yadda yadda yadda). Nothing with any re-sale value.

DD looks nice and all but for myself it would just be more money going out for very little actual tangible benefit. Adding to that a whole new rig to support the thing and the cost would balloon very quickly. Also, once I start doing something like this I never stop tinkering so there will always be unforseen costs (ooo a new pair of gloves, oh that handbrake looks pretty pimp, hmmm maybe I need a new PC to run it all).

I'll stick with the CSL Elite until it explodes or I lose my mind and drunkenly go on a spending spree (again).

 

[MarkR]

I have a TS-XW and had the chance to try a Simucube 2 Pro.

Honestly, I don't get it. Both wheels provide pretty much the same information. There was maybe a 5-10% difference, and I'm not even sure which was better. They are just...different. Made no difference to my lap times or ability to control the car in rF2 or AC.

Sometimes I think we're buying expensive hardware to compensate for the fact that several of our sims are more difficult to control than a real car (tires whose grip drops off way too fast with slip angle). This makes "counter-steering speed" more important than it is IRL.

Exactly this, reading your post made me remember a Reuters article about online racing from a few days ago:

Esports - Button wins Legends race as Villeneuve makes strong virtual debut

These quotes summed it up for me:
“It’s amazing how nervous you get,” said the Briton. “I was more nervous on this in the race than I am in real life. I think it’s because every corner you feel like you’re going to end up in the tyre barriers.”

The Canadian’s performance was all the more impressive for using an Xbox controller rather than a racing wheel.

[And inevitably because it's online racing:]

There was mass-car chaos at the start, opening the way for Villeneuve to move up.