DiRT Rally DiRT Rally out on Steam Early Access

[Alex Franchini]

Codemasters has surprised everyone with today's launch of Dirt Rally on Steam, under the Early Access label.

Judging from the official Steam Announcement, Dirt Rally features at launch (which is right now) 17 cars and 36 stages taken from 3 different locations (Monte Carlo, Acropolis and Wales).

SEE ALSO: Brand New Community Made DiRT Rally Videos

As you can see from the announcement, one of the biggest bullet points is "Simulation Handling". While we still haven't tried it yet, Codemasters definitely seems to be aiming for a more unforgiving driving model, with a "brand new model that simulates everything from the way the surface of the road behaves to limited slip differentials." Exactly how sim-like it will be remains to be seen, but it's indeed a good start.

Dirt Rally will also feature asynchronous events, team management providing improved repair times, league support.

Dirt Rally is currently in Early Access and available for the price of 26,99€, and it's going to receive new content in the form of cars, tracks and features for free.

Are you surprised as well by the Codies' announcement? Let us know your opinion in the comments!

 

[samekyo]

But campaigning against other stuff that other people want but doesn't affect me as I can quite happily ignore it, doesn't that seem, well, a bit petty ? Or am I missing something ?

My apologies, I didn't realise You were not one of those of us who want a proper hardcore sim. Now actually what You say is exactly what I've posted over Codemasters forum- the ideal solution is to have an appropate option on settings menu "arcade" and "simulation" physics settings would be ideal. Cheers!

 

[Richard Eriksson]

okay but I mean hardcore simracers not real racingdrivers , dedicated sim racers
usually know what other dedicated sim racers want in their game...

Well... Real rally drivers input would mean more to me than simracers input. A simracer who has no experience of an actual car will make a lot of lofty assumptions, based on bias for this or that "simulation" that he is used to.

The best input would come from real rally drivers, as i think it will in this case.

What i would like the most is a combination, a rally driver who is ALSO a simulator user... If Codies want my input as a former local level Grp. H and A driver and simracer, i can send my payment details

However we should make claims for what we need as simracers when it comes to architecture of the software... That is a given. One thing is multiplayer options, catering for league play. That is important to us. With split time sharing and the like.

Also, set up options and support for our perohperals is important (multi-monitor, wheels, pedals, shifters etc.).

There we have to make ourselves heard!

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

He's right, with the right tires, driving on ice is better than on tarmac! I've read an interview to wrc drivers somewhere about that

Sorry to be an arse on this. But the closest is "sometimes it can be close to how we can drive on tarmac".
Studded tyres give more grip than gravel, not more grip than tarmac, something the written tech-preview for Rally Sweden also confirms.

It does also not change the fact the the grip is very good on both snow/ice and tarmac on the Monte-stages in DiRT Rally ATM. Something that is impossible on one single stage.

 

[Stig Bidstrup]

well I don't now how many real racers actually plays real sim racing games
I don't think its many , maybe they do it in their hotel room on a playstation 3
between whatever. here for example ( surprise ) we have a database of
highly skilled Sim racers who have used countless of hours in different hardcore
sim racing games , they have tried several steering wheel setups on several
different PC configurations over the years, should I make a game like this I would
use that knowledge , okay I will write it again, Hardcore simracers know what other
hardcore simracers WANT not racingdrivers , its a no brainer

 

[Amedeo Fiorella]

Sorry to be an arse on this. But the closest is "sometimes it can be close to how we can drive on tarmac".
Studded tyres give more grip than gravel, not more grip than tarmac, something the written tech-preview for Rally Sweden also confirms.

It does also not change the fact the the grip is very good on both snow/ice and tarmac on the Monte-stages in DiRT Rally ATM. Something that is impossible on one single stage.

I was not talking about DIRT,in this case you're right, the grip in the Monte Stages is just messed up.

And I was not referring to that video, which I also saw, but I read an article maybe one year ago and I talked to an ice track owner. In good conditions, the grip on ice is comparable to the grip on tarmac!

 

[Kazumi]

Well it become the truth because there has hardly ever been an effort to make a rally simulation. Certainly not from Codemasters. I haven´t tried Milestones WRC 4 yet though

But yes certainly you would believe that there would not be a problem these days to surpass RBR the question is just if they really want to go all out but Dirt Rally is not close yet. On tarmac and ice you can really feel the one CG point they use to turn the car around. Feels awkward nothing I have ever felt driven a real car with steering that happen even before you start to turn the wheel. Maybe it feels good with gamepad and deadzones...

Hopefully they are serious and they are not just doing a pr stunt to appeal for us RBR 2 wanters ending with making a simcade.

Far as I can see most sims don't even solve surface contact independent of slip which is integral in simulating surfaces. Slip appromixations make only sense on dry asphalt, which is a well documented area thankfully. So developers like Milestone (the recent WRC games) have to work with engines like that and the results are - considering those limitations - not that bad from my point of view. That also means FFB should work better with additional "canned" effects rather than using pure steering rack forces.

Of course other physics engines aerodynamics and suspension models are a lot more versatile. If modern WRC or sports cars gets you for example 2° more camber due to compression relative to stock ride height that's a lot easier to rebuild in rFactor (and hopefully most recent engines) than it is in RBR.


With what Codemasters have from Dirt leftovers and some new assets I'd say maybe that's the best you can expect, and there's still time for improvements.

 

[Kazumi]

No. I do not prefer semi-sims. Actually i am an advocate for full on realism at all costs. For instance i have hadsome issues with pCars over this fact, as well as many other titles. I want the feel to be as close to reality as possible.

Also, your first statement is of course true. Every game is controllable if you know what it expects you to do. It does not mean it's "real", it just means that you know what you are expected to do in the GAME WORLD.

I have over 1500 hours in RBR/RSBR, many in league competition and i have developed mods for it. So i would not say i am inexperienced with it. I can control it just fine and be competitive, but i still do not think it is "realistic" or "the ultimate simulation".

Friends of mine who are also real life rally competitors have had the same sentiment after trying it in the past. We all agree that it is unrealisticly hard to control...

But i still love RBR, for it's time it was the best and closest to real life... The gravel dynamics are still the best. But it is old. It is built in a time where hardware restrictions caused some limitation of the simulation, making it feel stiff and binary. Thus making it unrealistically hard to control.

I know from real life experience that some of the things that RBR physics requires you to do for handling the car would definitely not happen in real life, and would probably get you killed if you tried it.

This new offering feels much more gradual and "nice" in the physics model, so thus is easier to control, but every bit as advanced under the hood. This is the benefit of modern computation power...

The same can be said for GP Legends for instance.

But over the time it has become some sort of truth that RBR is the only true attempt and that nothing EVER will surpass it. As soon as a modern try appears you dismiss it for being "easy" or use derogatory statements as "sim-cade". This despite the fact that the underlying models are probably far superior to RBR, due to modern hardware having the power to drive more sophisticated physics models.

So to summarize, i still maintain RBR is NOT the pinnacle of simulation, it has many flaws, one being it is WAY harder to control than what a real car is. I maintain my point that this is due to the underlying physics model being old now. I love it, i really do, but it does not feel like a real rally car does. It did a good job, but we have to move on. It's time for RBR to finally be left in favor of something better...

And this may very well be it. I really hope so. But Codemasters will need our support, the support of the sim-racers. We need to let go of the old and embrace this, as this is what we have told them that we want. We now get what we asked for, so we should give them credit for it.

Otherwise it would show to marketing dptmnts. that "sim" is not viable and we would get more Ken Block Gymkhana action-titles instead...

I see and respectfully disagree. Then again I'm mostly driving the 200x WRC Subaru cars + mods so I don't know if we are on the same page here. I don't think wet asphalt is harder to drive than it is in reality. A lot of drivers crash or even die under those circumstances unfortunately. If you drive into a corner with trees around the road and steering suddenly feels a bit light, I don't think experience from RBR and other sims can hurt, in opposite to never experiencing the situation before.

I usually try individual mods and see if I like them. Modders did a really good job with providing full mod packages like RSRSR though, and even added additional features

 

[Erbium99]

My apologies, I didn't realise You were not one of those of us who want a proper hardcore sim. Now actually what You say is exactly what I've posted over Codemasters forum- the ideal solution is to have an appropate option on settings menu "arcade" and "simulation" physics settings would be ideal. Cheers!

Ta. I'm just this sorry idealist who would like to live in a world where everyone gets what they want

Loving the game btw, it's great. Pretty hard, but with a good sense of achievement when you finally get everything right.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

I was not talking about DIRT,in this case you're right, the grip in the Monte Stages is just messed up.

And I was not referring to that video, which I also saw, but I read an article maybe one year ago and I talked to an ice track owner. In good conditions, the grip on ice is comparable to the grip on tarmac!

First part of my post was about the real life, second about the game

We'll have to agree to disagree on that then, I cannot find it being mentioned anywhere, in the exception of "perfect conditions", which very rarely happens.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

hey guys, how about talking about the game at hand and not go through the umpteenth regurgitation of the "sim, semi-sim, no-sim" debate. at the end of the day, we have never come to a conclusion in the 8 or so years i have been on this forum, and i am fairly certain we never will. we migth just as well discuss the schisms in any religion ...

 

[Lorenzo Bonder]

hey guys, how about talking about the game at hand and not go through the umpteenth regurgitation of the "sim, semi-sim, no-sim" debate. at the end of the day, we have never come to a conclusion in the 8 or so years i have been on this forum, and i am fairly certain we never will. we migth just as well discuss the schisms in any religion ...

And that is all, folks.

 

[Richard Eriksson]

Just noticed something in the steam page... Remeber that interview by someone where Codemasters got the flak for removing the headcam from GRID i think it was as marketing had researched that only 5% of ppl ever used that mode?

This dev team added an achievement to the Steam list called:

"I am the 5%" - Complete an event in headcam mode

I love that move

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Just did some more M3 vs WRC 2010's testing, and the M3 is indeed faster, that cannot be right at all.

 

[Dazmaniac]

What exactly is a hardcore sim racer? Do they dress in full race suit, helmet, gloves, shoes etc. and have a full blown motion rig at home?

Which driving titles do they play?

 

[Trimaz]

Can you tell us what they complains are?

I think if you make driving as easy as in some semi-sims, the problem is people suddenly push the car even more, which in turn makes it harder to control in the end. In real Rally evens you know you don't have to push 1000% to be the fastest. Often a "slow" feeling driving style gets good and constant results. Probably not too different in track racing.

I'm not too sure what you're trying to say exactly, but anyway, posts like this is what I was referring too;

http://steamcommunity.com/app/310560/discussions/0/611704730327730838/

 

[Kazumi]

I'm not too sure what you're trying to say exactly, but anyway, posts like this is what I was referring too;

http://steamcommunity.com/app/310560/discussions/0/611704730327730838/

I guess people who want the rewind feature think it's too hard? Arcade games can be "hard".

When I drive sims like rFactor, iRacing or RBR I know if I drive, say, 90 - 100% the times of the fastest drivers consistently I'm doing okay. If I decide not to push I don't need rewind because there's some more leeway for driving errors. That's I think not really uncommon in (real) rally, due to the nature of tracks (stages)

From the Steam thread you linked:

Physics remind me of WRC4 and WRC Evolved on PS2. Check out some gameplay.

Im still playing them on my PS2. cars have that very similar "weight" feel to them, just handling in general. Wish Evolution Studious kept the license haha

That's a good point. I also remember the Colin McRae games as okay. Haven't played them for some time.

 

[Borgen]

Im a "real world rallydriver", driving a BMW 325 GrH in sweden. I've played RBR since the day it was released and ive tried every other rallygame there is.

I have to agree with Richard Eriksson that the RWD-cars in this game feels really good. Not perfect, but good...

I dont think people in general understand how much grip there is in a modern rallycar, the suspensions we use are amazing and so are the tyres.
It's nothing like drifting an old stock Volvo or BMW with standard roadtyres on your local parking lot...

If this game evolves in the right direction, it might actually be the "RBR-killer" i've been waiting for since 2004

 

[Stig Bidstrup]

What exactly is a hardcore sim racer? Do they dress in full race suit, helmet, gloves, shoes etc. and have a full blown motion rig at home?

Which driving titles do they play?

well the post just before yours there is one , helmet gloves- no, they drive many hours,and some of them have rigs, they are rarely under 25 years , I wont mention games,I can call another, @Jarek Kostowski so you can see the monkey

 

[Quas]

well the post just before yours there is one , helmet gloves- no, they drive many hours,and some of them have rigs, they are rarely under 25 years , I wont mention games,I can call another, @Jarek Kostowski so you can see the monkey

Without triples and a direct drive wheel (waiting for Barry's Accuforce/OSW comparison) you can call me medium-core at best .

It's flattering that you think i could be of any use here but i don't own the game, Codemasters + early access is not a combination of words that gets my heart pumping. I'll hop on board if it turns out to be good but reading that you can get away with very late braking on gravel & co, i'm not really surprised.
Also, i suck at loose surfaces in real life, the very limited experience i got includes going off the road in a bend on snow and plowing down a fence while trying to brake from 130kp/h into a tight corner on gravel (in that regard RBR seems realistic as i keep plowing into fences there too).
I'll stick to driving like a grandma if there's no tarmac underneath and leave the rest to those crazy skandinavians .

Regarding who they should hire for useful input, obviously best would be someone who has a fair share of experience in both worlds, sim & real. It doesn't have to be a big name to show off but a good bit of time spent at simracing is almost as important for feedback as real life practice, i think.

 

[Kim Eriksson]

Regarding who they should hire for useful input, obviously best would be someone who has a fair share of experience in both worlds, sim & real. It doesn't have to be a big name to show off but a good bit of time spent at simracing is almost as important for feedback as real life practice, i think.

I would recommend @Ville-Samuli Mutanen