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Car tiers & development career mode

Discussion in 'F1 2016 - The Game' started by jacktorrance, Sep 20, 2016.

  1. Hi guys,

    I was wondering if there was already more knowledge about different car tiers outside the info from within the game?

    Is it possible to develop the mclaren to mercedes levels?

    How about season to season, still the option to stop all development on curent season and speed up next?

    And do new seasons have more options for the engine, like the new regs for 2017?
  2. Added numbers to your questions.

    1. What knowledge would ya like? I can tell you in quite a lot of detail regarding car performance comparisons.

    2. Yes - so long as you out pace your opponents in development, you can easily make a Manor more developed then a Mercedes. However, after time, Mercedes will catch up with you and overtake your performance again. This is because each RnD level is identical for all cars - it's just the AI do not get as many resource points as you per race (on average it seems anyway)

    3. At Singapore, you can choose to cease development this year. In exchange, you get a 1.25x multiplier on resource points when the new seasons starts and you develop the car again.

    4. Not at all. Your research is in the same position as where you leave it last season (minus any updates) and you continue where you left off... (Unless you use a mod which changes things up, one of which I am developing /end self promotional hype)
  3. Thanks for the reply. Well, what I would like to know is a short description of the weaknesses and strenghts of the cars, like: good or bad power, understeery or oversteery, bad or good on brakes. I dont need the low down of every detail like entry understeer, exit oversteer, just a slight indication without me having to test them all one by one.

    And ill look forward to your mod!
  4. You have asked a question which I spent the last two days investigating. I need about an hour to quickly see what today's patch has changed and then I'll give you a correct answer (its lucky you asked this today and not yesterday)
  5. Firstly: SPOILERS AHEAD! If you do NOT want to know the details of the performance of cars, you need to stop reading this thread.

    Secondly let’s Discuss:

    What is Equal:

    1/ Fuel Usage – There is an argument that some engines use more fuel then others, but it is basically negligible for the sake of playing.

    2/ Good on or Bad on Brakes – The brakes themselves on the car are Identical. However, other factors will play on how late you can break into a corner.

    Differences Between Cars and What They Mean
    For the most part is only 4 areas, which corresponds to the 4 main RnD Sections.. I did a test where I was in a Sauber and just altered my statistic to reflect 10x the upgrades available – so I could really see and feel the differences per lap. The figues I am using below are 1/10th of those, to discuss what is normally one upgrade on a sauber.

    1/ Drag – This doesn’t have a very big effect for the most part. It just limits your ability to hit maximum speed as fast. It’s only really useful during longer straights. Even reducing it by 2.6% only removes about 0.11 seconds a lap (of Australia) roughly. This is the lowest of all upgrades and doesn’t have real noticeable effect on handling.

    2/ Downforce – The higher this is, the less understeer you’ll generally have in those higher-speed corners. So long as you balance the car well, you’re normally going to have less oversteer as well. Looking at my telemetry, having a lot more downforce means I don’t need to steer aggressively to get round some of the corners, meaning its easier and more natural for me to open up my steering and get on the power. A 2.4% increase is about 0.2 seconds a lap around Australia comfortably – mostly all from the third sector with the medium speed corners.

    3/ Chassis Weigh – Reducing this makes your car handle like a god. Understeer quickly fades away , you turn lighter into every corner, and carry more speed both in a straight line and a corner, you can brake later into the corners – this is the best upgrade to have in any situation – worth 0.22 seconds a lap around Australia. It even seems to save a bit of fuel!

    4/ Engines – Are a tricky one to understand and compare with each other (more on that in a minute). A better engine certainly lets you get to your top speeds quicker, and improves top speeds. Do we get more wheelspin, is something I need to test more. The +8BPH is not as an effective upgrade as some of the aero, but you can often feel the difference in power (worth about 0.16 seconds a lap in Aussie)

    More About Engines.

    There are 4 engines: Mercedes (Mercedes Team, Manor, Force India and Williams), Ferrari (Ferrari, Hass, Sauber, Roso), Honda (Mclaren) and Renault (Lotus, Redbull).

    Up until today, each team had an identical engine (i.d., Manor’s Engine was Identical in every way to Mercedes) – So it is easier for me to talk about how different Engines handle different. But in todays Patch, Toro Rosso have had a massive 20BHP loss (which equates to about 0.35seconds a lap in Aussie) and Redbull have a 10BHP gain (about 0.2 seconds).

    The differences between the engines are a little harder to figure out. Instead of being a simple number, they actually accelerate and peak differently. Each engine also has a different drive train, with different gear ratios, and inertia – making meaningful comparisons a task. What I can give you is a nice scattergraph of their relative performances:


    Remember, imagine that Toro’s engine line is Ferrari engine line moved down a tiny bit, and Redbull’s engine line is Renaults moved up a tiny bit.

    Looking how they peak. Its easy to see that Mercedes have the finest engine, Ferrari second, then Redbull then Honda. But if you look at how they reach their peak, while Mercedes are indeed best, Honda are better then both Ferrari and Renault (though Honda are as uneven as anything).

    I am assuming that the peak is the top possible speeds, and the rate of climb is their ability to accelerate - but you may find that Ferrari and Renault are less prone to Power Oversteer based on their smoother accelerating curves - but I really don't know ye - so feel free to do some testing and report back.

    Finally – Car Comparisons

    I have a nice table for you to look at. These are raw values from todays file (with some rounding). But what you’re interested in is the Colours.


    Green is the top end of the spectrum, the best cars in one area being the highest green. The Red fields belong to the worst cars in that area. (Disclaimer, the BPH doesn’t necessarily reflect total engine performance – remember that the power has to go through a gearbox and an inertia value, making them all a lot closer)

    Its easy to see for example, that Manor have a decent engine (Mercedes) and don’t have very much drag (a good thing for them). So they have power, and are quick in a straight line. But with the worst Downforce (aero) and Chassis, they’re gonna understeer like crazy. Meanwhile Red Bull, not fast in a straight line (engine and drag – but makes up a little bit of this in Chassis) but will steer beautifully into any corner (chassis and aero). Looking Mercedes, while it isn't amazing at Downforce or Drag, it makes up for it with the less weight - and that weight loss also makes it easier for them to break later. Put that all together, and you can see why they'll run off into the distance most the time.

    From any one car, you should be able to see the strengths and weakness to any other easily – just remember that each RnD upgrade changes these values.

    Any questions, let me know. This is only a tiny portion of Data I have.

    Side note: (it appears I have stopped being an F1 driver and turned into a race engineer).
    Side note 2: FERRARI! - How many times did I mispell that... I'm gonna give up and call them 'That Red One'
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
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  6. I to was trying to look through the erp files to find some specific information about the cars. I was trying to find each car's starting values for the 5 different development upgrade paths, BHP, weight, downforce, etc..

    And theres so much information to sort through, i gave up.

    I'm glad someone is clever enough to do this, thanks for the information.
  7. Great info man. One thing that is confusing me under R&D is those tier levels 1,2 and 3 witch team is witch?And what they exactly mean (stand for)
    If the Ferrari is tier 1 team do we need to change only the tier 1 under the R&D or all of them? Its complete jungle in there because i have noticed that some teams don't have all tier engine levels only one, some two and some all three.
    Any thoughts.
  8. thank for your good work but Lotus=Renault?

    Again, thank you for the work you have the data obtained within the game files? If so you have to keep up to date tables both with future patches with various upgrades obtained in career
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  9. Haha, yes! Lotus = Renault. Two reasons I missed this-
    1/ I haven't followed F1 Much since about 2012 (First Redbull winnning too consistantly now Mercedes). So the last time I watched Caterham (formally Lotus) was having the name dispute with a Renault Lotus team.
    2/ In the game files Renault are still called lotus, much like Manor are still called Murissa.

    I have a copy of the car data from both the past and current patch, so it only takes about 20 minutes to compare car - to - car again when a new patch hits.

    You're right, that section of code is a COMPLETE mess.

    I fully believe that:
    Merc, Ferarri, Redbull and Williams are TIER 1
    Roso, Force, Mclaren and Hass are TIER 2
    Manor, Sauber and Renault are TIER 3.

    So I believe (but have not tested) that the teir you would adjust for RnD is as above. Why there is so much redunant data (and blank data) I can only guess, but my theory is:

    Codemasters were not sure in which tier some of the teams would belong to. Is Hass at the bottom of Tier 2 or the top of Tier 3. - This also leads to a balancing issue:

    Because TIER 3 upgrades are HIGHER then TIER 1 upgrades. What happens is at Season 1, the field is reasonably spread. By the time everyone has updated everything, that spread has reduced massively. Here is the spread of the cars in terms of time according to my 'Sauber Upgrades Aussie Testing'

    Comparing the bottom two colunms (First, the speed other teams are greater then manor at the start of season 1 VS the speed other teams are greater than manor when fully upgraded). You can see that that the gaps between Manor and Mercedes have theoretically decreased from 1.83 seconds a lap to about 0.92 a lap.

    In general, the time difference between the TEIRs themselves have about halved. While the order should still be the same, the races once everyone have upgraded everything will be a lot closer.

    BUT! Look at Hass (bottom TIER 2) and Renault (top TIER 3). While Hass start off 0.35 seconds ahead of Renault, when everything is upgraded, Hass are quicker then Renault (by 0.12s). Hass would be challenging the McLaren at this point (0.02s quicker) - So I am assuming Codemasters have been wondering if Hass is a Tier 2 or Tier 3 team - hense the redundant coding.


  10. Gee thats so much info! Thank you so much! This should be pinned on top of this forumthread!
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  11. I agree, and as I am very interested in this topic, I'd like to know , after one month playing the game, if you have discovered something new about cars performances.
  12. Well, I've been continuing to develop mods based off of altering the performance files. But I am not sure what you mean by new. What kind of information would you be after?
  13. Can anybody tell me how to make a car faster or slower and how to change the chances of an engine failure?
  14. Great info: I finally know now which car to take into competition.
  15. Peter Hooper

    Peter Hooper

    This is fantastic work and something a lot of us are really interested in over at the Xbox F1 League (re-starting on 26th March in line with the real thing.... http://www.racedepartment.com/forums/xbox-one-f1-championship.382/)

    Just wondering whether you would be able to extract that data now to see how that table looks following the updates that CM have applied to the game. It would really help us on console as we have no way of accessing that information.

    Many thanks :thumbsup:
  16. I must admit that I've been spending a lot of time now playing and Modding Motorsport Manager, so haven't been actively keeping up to date in F1 2016.

    As far as I can tell, no performance data has been changed in the patches - as there's on,y been a couple of bug fix patches (as far as I can see). What have I been missing?
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  17. Peter Hooper

    Peter Hooper

    Thanks for the ultra quick response :thumbsup:
    I was under the assumption that they updated the cars relative to the real world as the season progressed. Not sure how many times.. maybe once only but that was what I thought was meant to be happening.
  18. I think The patch which changed performance happened happened just before I posted on this thread (as I had to update my tables)

    As far as I know (and I maybe wrong) but they haven't updated the performances since. I was paying attention until early November - and I am sure they didn't update performances after this (as it's off season)
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  19. Peter Hooper

    Peter Hooper

    OK many thanks for the update :thumbsup: