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bassshaker, simvibe, position

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by oliver65, Sep 29, 2017.

  1. oliver65

    oliver65

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    Dear simracers
    After studying a lot of comments there are some questions again:

    Im planing to buy 2 basshakers (I think the mini lfe) and I have a Playseat evolution. What do you recommend to position the bs.
    left and right of the seat ? which height (a little under the seat or higher?) or is it better to under the seat L + R.
    If I going in the chasis mode and I have the BS on the side of the seat, do I feel the roadnoise/BpM or its necessery to have a 3. under the seat?

    I dont have space inside the pc for a sound card. Does it work with a external usb card?

    many thanks for your help.
     
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  2. SOLO59

    SOLO59
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    This is really good. Interest for tactile immersion is growing in sim racing!

    I don't own a playseat evo, but I can provide some help from my current experience.

    My recommendation for you; 2 bass shakers in EM "Extension Mode" via SimVibe. One mounted under your pedal plate and one under your seat.

    I started out with 2 ADX Maximus Bass shakers in Chassis Mode, placing each shaker left and right under my seat.
    I just wanted a kool left/right tactile feedback. The more I used SimVibe, the more I learned that Chassis mode with only 2 shakers wasn't giving me a full or close to a full cockpit tactile feedback experience. I switched to Extension Mode and remounted 1 shaker under my pedals and 1 under my seat. This setup gave me full cockpit tactile feedback I really wanted.

    I think Chassis Mode is best suited for at least 5 good shakers. So you gotta have a really good budget for CM setup.

    Extension Mode is perfect for 2 to 4 shakers. You can assign 2 or maybe 3 effects to each shaker for a great experience. If you have really good high performance shakers, I suppose you can add more than three effects to each shaker. But budget shakers like ADX and Aura, you are better off with only 2 or 3 effects.

    I'm currently using 3 shakers. 2 ADX's and I just got a new Aura Pro shaker. 1 under my seat, 1 under my pedals and 1 on the back of my seat. This just feels perfect. All that's missing is a 4th shaker under my wheel plate for that full cockpit effect, but mounting one under my wheel plate is complicated. I already get great FFB from my TX, so maybe a shaker under my wheel plate is overkill, so I'm perfectly fine without it for now.

    For my ADX's under my seat and pedals; I'm using engine, impact and front/rear suspension (OR vertical surges, pending on what sim provides effects). For the Aura shaker, I'm using engine, impacts and gear change. This setup is Perfect for my needs.
     
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  3. oliver65

    oliver65

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    Thanks solo59 for your detailed answer.
    Thats interesting because most write to use with 2 shakers chasis mode on the side of the seat. Is it possible that with 2 shakers under the seat it's to near and not recognizable the left and right information?

    Is the aura pro shaker for you a better shaker ? Is the simvibe mini lfe a beter shaker and usable for more than 3 effects? I know, you dont have this shaker maybe you have some experience from other users.

    With your 3 shakers do have one amplifier with 3 or 4 outputlines?

    I have the fanatec v1 pedals and I have to look how I can mount a shaker. But is a shaker at the pedal so important for the immersion? So I think I would have a permanent vibration from the engine at the feed?

    If you select in simvibe the front/rear suspension do you feel with this the bumps and road textures?
    I think if you drive for example the nordschleife with a living road texture and you drive with high bpm, then you would have a permanent vibrations from engine and road texture and is this not a mismatch? sorry for lot of questions, but Im trying to find out, which information/feeling I get with this settings.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. SOLO59

    SOLO59
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    No problem Oliver65! Glad I can help.

    I guess a lot of people place their shakers left and right under their seat when using only two shakers for Chassis Mode CM. But it is also highly recommended if only using two shakers, to place one under your seat and one under your pedals.

    To fulfill a Chassis Mode setup properly, you need four shakers. For example, one shaker at each 4 corner of your cockpit to stimulate all four wheels; then adding suspension bumps or verticle surges effects; and maybe 1 or 2 layers of engine effects too. Then if you want, add a 5th and 6th shaker under your wheel plate and the back of your seat for just engine and gear change effects. Go crazy and add a 7th shaker under your shifter for just gear change and add another shaker to mount under your pedals or underneath your seat for just road bumps and a couple layers of engine effects. This way, all your effects are evenly distributed. And in return, you'll get a really nice overall tactile feedback. The above are just examples. But stuffing too many effects into one shaker will result in your chosen effects feeling washed out and less detailed.

    I assume that something as powerful as the buttkicker or Clark Synthesis might be able to handle more than 3 effects without sacrificing the quality of your chosen effects. For sure, those powerful shakers can operate at really low frequencies, resulting in high detailed effects. I'm only guessing here because I've only owned/used ADX Maximus and Aura Pro AST-2B-4.

    So you want to use your Buttkicker in Chassis Mode, that's fine. Your shakers can be mounted pretty close together. Just make sure they aren't touching each other. You should be able to feel left and right effects (bumps, suspension) separately. But keep in mind, I'm pretty sure you'll want to use engine (multiple layers), gear change (multiple layers), impacts and either suspension bumps or vertical surges effects all to just one shaker or any other combination of effects that SimVibe has to offer. That could lead to your chosen effects feeling less detailed. I did the same in CM with only 2 shakers and after a while I wasn't completely happy, and that's why I remounted my shakers and switched to Extension Mode EM instead. Then recently adding a third shaker really REALLY helped spread out my chosen effects much better.

    My setup is pretty simple;
    *ADX Maximus x1 under my pedals. Effects used; engine (2 layers), impacts and front suspension bumps or vertical surges depending on sim.
    *ADX Maximus x1 underneath my seat. Effects used; engine (2 layers), impacts and rear suspension bumps or vertical surges depending on sim.
    *Auro AST-2B-4 Pro x1 on the back of my seat. Effects used; engine (I think I'm using 4 or 5 layers. Can't remember right now), impacts and gear change (I think I have 5 or 6 layers, can't remember).
    This setup works perfectly! Hope that gives you an idea of where to mount Your shakers and how much effects to use without losing detail.

    Oh and as for Your pedals, if your pedals does not have mounting holes to mount directly to your Playseat Evo's pedal plate, then I'm sure you can strap them to it securely. Then use the unused mounting holes on your pedal plate to simply mount a piece of ply wood to it. One of your shakers will be mounted to that same piece of wood, then of course, that piece of wood mounted to your pedal plate. And that should do it! For your seat, I think you can clamp the buttkicker to the back of the Playseat. I've seen it done on a YouTube video.

    Don't forget to isolate isolate isolate your playseat from the ground. Or all or most your effects will go straight though the floor instead of through your rig and to your body.

    Don't be afraid to ask more questions. We're all here to help. ;)
     
  5. oliver65

    oliver65

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    thank you solo59 so much. I helps me to find a solution that will me make happy and not to go at first a way with failures.
    Now, I think the way with 2 shakers isnt the solution, so I intend to buy 4 or maybe 5 shakers. The question is with 4 speakers shall I go in to the chassis mode? I dont have an alurig for position the shakers at the side in front and back. On the side of the seat is possible (back shakers) and then I would have to position the front shakers at the side of the pedal. Im not sure if I would be happy with this then the chasis mode of front wheels must give the information to the pedals. If following to your recomondation a solution could be:

    1 soundcard, 1 amp for 2 shakers at the left and right side on the seat. --> chasis mode front left, front right. I saw in forums that users drive with 2 shakers on left and right side on the seat in chasis mode front)
    1 soundcard, 1 amp for 2 shakers at the pedal and 1 under the seat --> extension mode

    If I want a shaker on the back on the seat, then I need an amp with 3 outputs. dont know which one.

    Do you think this would be a good solution or just try 3 speakers and mount like yours way all in extension mode. Do you make this with 1 soundcard and how many cables do you go from the soundcard to the amp?

    Attached a picture that you can imagine my rig and for placing the shakers.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    This conversation/topic was something I had hoped to see peoples thoughts and user views in the CM Vs EM thread. It is an interesting debate but ultimately the best solution may depend on the user's preference or desire for "quantity" of tactile installed Vs "quality" the tactile can deliver for different immersion possibilities.

    I will leave some of my own thoughts here and go into some extra detail.
    Long as usual but I guess that's me in how I ramble onnnnnnn. :redface:

    You will get help I'm sure on the forums regardless what you opt to go for.

    Firstly, how you install can be a key factor and often the first attempt is not always going to work as hoped or be the best solution. Do prepare for perhaps a bit of tinkering with d.i.y based builds.

    Regards CM Vs EM from a Simvibe Perspective.
    My view would lean towards it being better to incorporate body regions to gain more immersion than necessarily relying on 4 way CM to deliver the best possible immersion. Of course both are possible in a 5,6 combo but there are still some other factors to consider.

    As advised by Solo59 you can go for body regions by installing tactile to operate in:
    • Pedals
    • Seat Base
    • Seat Spine
    Doing this gives your brain more sensory input and obviously encompasses the body.
    You can then use the Spine region to help pronounce (Engine and Gears), Pedals too with sensation in feet also being sensitive are good for detailing for (Engine and Gears). The (Road Bumps) are generally the most active/useful and can feel nice in both Pedals & Seat base areas. Then it's a matter of what preference you have for some other effects. Doing your own testing, trial, and error with effects settings.

    Keep in mind (Engine) is constant. Also, (Vertical Surges) & (Vertical Textures) can be rather constant too. We have much less control over (Texture) based effects as less options to adapt them and some people like them, others it seems not so much.

    Stereo is nice to feel, very satisfying but other options in "Tactile Immersion" can deliver better "Stereo Representation" than Simvibe does and alternative software in Sim Shaker Wheels (SSW) is delivering, in my opinion, the better representation of feeling what the car is doing. Be it in sensations of understeer/oversteer, turning force and braking forces. I would recommend you not just try Simvibe yet SSW is being ignored by many tactile owners.

    Eagerness Vs Patience
    The user has to determine what budget they have to spend or if it's worthwhile looking at "better tactile hardware" and starting with one or fewer units. To then perhaps go with a more long-term approach, gradually building towards a higher level of a tactile installation and buy it over time. Some want to blow the budget they have and just go all in with 4 or more units, amps etc. You see this alot as CM or having 4/6/8 units is perceived the ultimate immerson route.

    4 Way
    CM is a bit overrated, while stereo effects are nice its really only via suspension effects in Simvibe these are delivered via L/R channels. You don't get a great deal of variation between the front and rear pairs. I have not tried the recently added "Oversteer" effect but not seen anyone mention or discuss it at all. The vast majority of the effects in Simvibe are MONO and will go to any active output channels they are on.

    What CM can do is produce an effect over 4x Units but here's a quandrum you don't get people asking or discussing.

    4 Vs 2
    Pick an effect that's MONO, does it feel better operating over 4 units via CM using 4x BK Mini or better over 2 units in EM (Seat Pedals) via BK Advance? Here you have the "Quantity" Vs "Quality" factor and I would say from my own preference the immersion is better with 2x BK Advance as they can deliver much richer energy and satisfaction in low frequencies.

    What I maintain are key, is first, how well the Hz can be produced, how its delivered/isolated into the rig via the installation/isolation used and then how well the user can control them. This is why I always recommend Behringer iNuke DSP amps as no amp gives better control at their price point. The better the tactile hardware used then again, the more composure it can operate with and control you have in utilising their technical advantages over the @ $50/$100 common and popular choices. I know plenty of people very satisfied with budget tactile they have but moving up the ladder in quality/capability of hardware like in anything brings benefits.

    Effects Distribution Considerations
    Those with 5,6 or more with CM & EM configs have the ability to then remove the constant engine based effect to the EM channels to help deliver more detailing from bumps/textures on the CM units. It's good to take care to learn what effects are most constant, you may not want too many of these on the same channel, as it may be detrimental to feeling some other effects. This is one reason you will find people saying less is more. Some may prefer to feel everything blasting through each unit, Its personal preference. However, their certainly are ways to improve the immersion with a balance and good distribution of what effects you use, the settings they have, the Hz they use and what channels you place them on.

    Count The Cost
    Compare the price of 4x BK Mini and using 2 amps to the price of 2 BK Advance and 1 amp.
    In laymans terms, this is obtaining more of less Vs achieving more with less.

    I don't expect everyone to want to spend this much getting into tactile at the beginning. Yet often we see people enjoy it and then want to expand on what they have. My advice is if needed start with one unit like a BK Advance and build on that for the future, you will end up with a much more capable and enjoyable configuration. I know a few people that upgraded from BK Mini to Advance models and have yet to hear one of them say it was money wasted and they also benefited by having much fewer issues with the common piston pang that happens on BK Mini, Mini S/E, Mini Concert and BK Gamer models.


    Time for a cuppa.....
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  7. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Having a bit of fun here but lets look at entry level and possibly growing a system over time.
    Whats the possible performance outcome paths to the money spent?


    These I will add as had some PM recently with another person also seeking to get into tactile but with uncertainty which way to proceed. Depends on your location what prices some hardware may be.

    No1
    A quality compact and widely used stereo amp, combined with twin ADX tactile.
    For a budget this is likely one of the best options, no piston pang issues. Some users expand this to Chass Mode with another set. Yet this amp will having lots of punch falls short of the iNuke DSP models and will not handle as a potential upgrade in future a bigger unit like the BK Advance.


    [​IMG]



    No2
    Getting a good amp that can handle bigger units in future and bring control benefits. Starting with 1 tactile unit. The ADX performs really well for the money, you don't see people having issues with it either. May not have the low-end punch of the BK Mini but some say it gives better detailing.

    [​IMG]



    No3
    An excellent basis for increased detail and low bass with great amp

    [​IMG]



    No 4
    This I would say would be a very good performing EM based config.

    [​IMG]



    No5
    Alternative Chassis Mode based config with 2 amps.

    [​IMG]



    No6
    Going in deep with 6 channels and 3 amps

    [​IMG]



    No7
    Going in deep again, this time with 6 BK Mini and 3 amps

    [​IMG]



    No8
    Lets play the numbers game, Simvibe MAXXED out: 8x BK Mini and 2x quad channel amps (limited wattage)

    [​IMG]



    No9
    High-quality Chassis Mode configuration, good extended bass over the smaller less capable units. Several people have this as their preference for this price point.
    [​IMG]



    No10
    A high high-end configuration with Chassis Mode over BK Advance producing really good low-end bass and excellent detailing via the ADX on EM for Spine/Seat & Feet/Pedals.

    [​IMG]

    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  8. oliver65

    oliver65

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    Mr. Latte many thanks for you effort.
    I have seen in other threads that you recommend the inuke 1000 dsp and I decided yesterday to take this ones.
    But I dont know how important is the low frequency from 10 to 20Hz, because the simvibes shakers goes down to 10 Hz and the inuke 1000 can handle just till 20 Hz.

    Im a little surprised that the bk mini lfe are to weak?

    I agree that the constant engine and the road texture can be a problem to difference. The oversteer if this works well would be a important feeling. I think the road textures, bumps is for me more important than the constant engine. gear shift can be also a good immersion.
    you mentioned braking forces .... how can you feel this? with simvibe or just in SSW?

    Lets talk about the solutions till max. S1000.--

    What would you recommend from No 1 - 7?
    For what (effects and position) would you use the bk advance and for what the adx?
    Which effects would you place at which position?
     
  9. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    I presume, what you have seen is the frequency chart used with their "Remote Connect" free software. This only shows 20Hz - 20KHz as that is the "audio spectrum" used as a reference for human hearing. The amp will deliver 5Hz which is silly low, 10Hz however can be used effectively on better performing tactile units. Behringers wattages are not accurate (like many brands) for the true RMS output.

    The 1000 DSP model will have no problems powering, with enough energy 2x BK Advance. I have even used 2x BK-LFE on one but for those units it perhaps is better to get the DSP 3000 series for a bit more output power.


    They are punchy with 30-60Hz region but the problem is they lack composure when driven hard with low frequencies and increased volume. The piston will clack, sometimes the unit overheat and shut down. THe BK manual describes this and is normal if overdriven.

    I think people often drive them too hard to try and extract the most bass. By too hard I mean not just the volume but the more effects you pile on, the more likely this will be due to the nature of what happens with the frequencies when additional effects or even effect layers are applied. Ultimately some users are likely losing detailing with the loss of composure from the unit by overdriving them.

    As an example, ask people to tell you the operational differences of the various bump/texture/surge effects from Simvibe and how to best combine them. Then get them to tell you what order of importance from an immersion "feel what the car is doing" perspective they should use these?

    Keep in mind that engine effects created are "faked". They are mainly based on (rpm / speed) values. The user determines the tones used and with layers or harmonics how it feels. It's not as if the Sim used has "telemetry data" from the real car that is converted for the "engines tactile feedback". Being a bit of a NERD on this topic, I personally looked at and wanted to explore if it was possible to create "individual engine layers" that could better represent a specific car. I found with the 911 test I did it was, however, Simxperience are not interested in complicating things to this level or seeking perhaps the "best immersion" as they are in seeking more automated or self-tuning options for users that bring decent enough results.

    What I am saying is if indeed "tactile" from a position of using it as a tool to feel feedback to what the car is doing then engines are not as important. Yes Simvibe is more than capable, of allowing the user to create immersive and engine vibrations but while enjoyable, these as you mention are not as important as those effects for the control and handling of the car being driven.

    People can use whatever one they want or its even possible to use Simvibe for Engine and SSW for other effects but (lets not go there just now). I personally have been enjoying SSW more it deserves more recognition too perhaps. I have combined SSW with "Audio Tactile" for additional sensations (engines,transmission, curbs, other cars, etc) that are not found on telemetry based tactile. Its all preference and each option has their own pros/cons or advantages and disadvantages. For me the goal is combining if necessary "each" for the best possible tactile immersion.

    Let me think about this more, lets see what others think.....
    You have to take into account the size and materials of your rig, if vibration noise is a factor and how you'd go about installing (chosen/preferred) options.

    SSW makes it easier to place ANY effect wherever you want it.
    If you are using different makes/models on some channels then is possible to alter the .way file based on an effect to be more suited to that model. Some people have 1x BK Advance or BK LFE and use it for additionally beefy low end.

    We can use/extract more control in SSW due to ".wav" waveform file creation Vs the "tone generation" with an EM in Simvibe and various awkward sliders. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  10. oliver65

    oliver65

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    Thanks Mr. Latte

    oliver65 said:
    Lets talk about the solutions till max. S1000.--

    What would you recommend from No 1 - 7?
    For what (effects and position) would you use the bk advance and for what the adx?
    Which effects would you place at which position?
    Let me think about this more, lets see what others think.....
    You have to take into account the size and materials of your rig, if vibration noise is a factor and how you'd go about installing (chosen/preferred) options.

    SSW makes it easier to place ANY effect wherever you want it.
    If you are using different makes/models on some channels then is possible to alter the .way file based on an effect to be more suited to that model. Some people have 1x BK Advance or BK LFE and use it for additionally beefy low end.

    We can use/extract more control in SSW due to ".wav" waveform file creation Vs the "tone generation" with an EM in Simvibe and various awkward sliders. :)

    My options for installing on my rig is
    shakers - at the side of the seat
    - under the seat
    - back off the seat
    - sidemountet of the pedal

    from the seat there is a metalrod to the wheelstanding and pedal. So its possible that could a little vibration noise going to the whole rig.

    other options are with the playseat not possible.
    And that was my questions; what would make sense with 4 or 5 bk? The bk advance is (I think so) more powerful than the adx and for which effects and which position should I take the most BK advance and for what the adx?

    You gave a lot of selection with several budgets, but if I intend to go further with 4 maybe 5 shakers what do you recommend?
     
  11. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    The Evo frame is small. rather narrow and not that substantial regards it metal sides and pedal section, nor is the seat that substantial from memory.

    Im not saying its bad but it may need some beefing up in a bit of d.i.y as others have done with them. Actually the Evo was the first cockpit I owned myself and I started with a BK Advance then gradually purchased Aura Pro, Clarke TST and BK Mini models out of interest in comparing them at the time.

    Some of the examples given were if thinking longterm based on what could be really good options in general for tactile and if taking it that seriously or putting so much money into it. Not trying to tell you to add 4x Advance and 2x ADX onto such a small cockpit seat and frame. :)

    Although Id say that 1xBK Advance in a (modified) seat base (its energy will also easily felt in pedals too via the main shaft) with the benefits of an improved low end it brings. You could have stereo in the pedals with a bit of modifying using 2x ADX as the front channels. Then another ADX at back of Seat would give I think really nice all round immersion and full sensory involvement with your body.

    Front Stereo
    2x ADX

    Seat Base
    1x Advance

    Seat Back
    1x ADX

    Total 4 Units / 2 iNuke DSP Amps
    [​IMG]


    Potential!
    Good low- end frequency representation, stereo effects for directional bumps/curbs and excellent additional detailing in back/spine region. All combined you would have really good immersion but need to budget for cables/connectors, other materials to modify and maybe on isolation etc.

    For $1000 budget thats what I'd do, regards the tactile others may prefer something different.
    You can also start with 1 Inuke amp 1x Advance and 1x ADX to feel what each offers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  12. oliver65

    oliver65

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    Thanks Mr. Latte

    Lets go further with your proposal and I thinking how to connect.

    1 inuke for seat and seatback
    1 inuke for both shakers at the pedals

    To connect:
    1 soundcard for seat and seatback and if I have to go to localize mode there is in simvibe no option for seatback. What do I select for seatback?

    1 soundcard for the pedal? do I select also localize mode and how it works with stereo or do I use chasis mode with front left, front right?
     
  13. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Firstly I would say I dont like giving a perception what I say trumps over what others say or the opinions they offer are any less appreciated or important. That I come barging in or take over. It's actually great to see people offer their opinions and seek to help others based on their own experiences. By my own passion on the topic its easy to be seen to be overbearing even when the intentions are good or to help.

    I think you certainly need to consider and look at the frame/seat combo you have and ask is it the best platform for a longterm solution or a high level of tactile as proposed? Even if you added a proper race seat and done some modifications, would it be worth considering going with an 80/20 based route? The reason I say this is the opportunities by the nature of 80/20 to adapt it and position or install tactile are much better and it likely feel better on such a build. It allows creativity and do things not possible or easy with pre-built designs never intended for the role of having multi-tactile installations.

    What I offer is my own past experience, I moved from the Evo to a more substantial Gamepod cockpit, with proper race seat to then messing with my own d.i.y builds with steel/chrome tubing/clamps I had access too.

    It's something to consider but yes you could keep what you have and modify it to still work well. The question for you, is it worth spending the money on the Evo to modify/adapt and perhaps get a better/proper seat?

    Arrrrrrrhhhhhh
    See how I complicate things and add confusion in options, in search of aiming for better. Why when lesser may be fine for most people and often is!!! My own advice is not always the best or simplest. You could easily enjoy tactile with some ADX units and spend a few bucks attaching them to your Evo. Lots of people enjoying such and are evident, in that you don't necessarily have to go so far to enjoy tactile immersion.

    One is a simple path, the other not so .........
    [​IMG]

    -------------------------------------------

    Which First?
    If you opt for trying SSW before Simvibe then it will operate up to 6 units from 1 soundcard.
    This configuration in Simvibe would indeed require two soundcards as it is using CM & EM "Output Mixer" channels, so yes with Simvibe it not only costs more as your paying for all that Sim Commander 4 offers but this also needs an additional soundcard.

    Tores Of Duty
    It then in the way it operates requires you to manually input, all the effects you want individually, into both the EM and CM channels. That means to input all the tones, the slider or advanced settings. This can be frustrating and time-consuming. Especially when balancing or fine-tuning, as then again you have to adapt each so it adds a lot of back n forth between CM & EM within its limited user-interface.

    Different Approach
    We avoid all this in SSW as how it works is totally different. The user can adapt/save any effects .wav (audio waveform) in less than a minute. Have this configured to best suit the unit on any particular channel or purpose required? Also determine what channels you want it on. Very simple, precise and quick.

    Example of creating effects for SSW via "Audacity" audio tool.
    [​IMG]

    In reference to SSW I would expect if we had good effects completed and a profile created to suit your/potential configuration then you may not even feel the need to spend even more on Simvibe and the bigger learning curve or time spent within it, to get the most out of it. The choice is yours friend.

    The Audio Tactile Factor
    It's not hard or expensive to implement/combine the output of SSW with "Audio Tactile" if you wanted the felt immersion of both. You could even decide to just mix the "Audio Tactile" outputting with any single unit or all units if you wanted.

    Take note some games the "Audio Tactile" can provide excellent results and bring an addition to the immersion you cant get with these telemetry based options.

    Even without telemetry based tactile, its still possible to have an enjoyable tactile experience. One recent example is Forza 7 as it has some superb tactile response that can be very satisfying when playing the game. The game feels rather bare/naked without the tactile, yeah even here tactile can make a title more enjoyable. With such you get "real engine recordings" more of the atmosphere/personality of the car driven. Also some additional detailing from "curbs" that "brrrrrrrrrrr" sound with some road surfaces producing a sensation that may do nothing in Simvibe or SSW.

    With "audio tactile" the main drawback is lack of control. It depends on the title and the options in the sound controls of how you can alter the audio output as to perhaps what you can do within it to suit your own pref.

    D-Box + Audio
    What I would say, is companies like Versaro that offer high-end D-Box motion with its own built-in tactile. They still ALSO use a BK Advance for the very reason they mix both "Audio" & "Telemetry" based tactile together for added immersion.

    Some people say you don't need audio when using "Simvibe" and they are right in that Simvibe or SSW for that matter do MANY things "audio cant or doesn't". However, this can be said of both types of tactile sources. Its what can be achieved with both or for the user to have the choice to use one or the other individually.

    Your Goals?
    So even here I still complicate things but it's for the user to determine how deep they want to go with it all. It's better sometimes to have something simple and enjoy it for what it is than complicate it in the pursuit of something greater.

    Only you can answer what is the best way forward for you to go.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017