Automobilista Hotfix Update Released

[Paul Jeffrey]

The racing sim that refuses to finish development, another 'final' update has been released...

... to be fair this is more of a hotfix to the recent, final, major build release for the still exceptional Automobilista Racing Simulator, but I just couldn't resist making reference to the seemingly endless development life of Reiza Studios AMS - a title that's gone through three different names and countless improvements to hold the lofty position in sim racers affections that it enjoys today.

This latest build, dropped to the title earlier today, is most focused on adding a few final fixes that appeared as part of the last major build update, details of which can be found below:

AMS V1.5.26 Hotfix Notes:

• Fixed a bug that could cause rotation range not being set for older Logitech wheels in some cases; Fixed G27 LEDs not working; Added old method for rotation range adjusting, can be triggered from controller.ini
• Fixed CTD when going out on track in some cases with direct drive wheel controllers
  
• Added Fanatec Podium Direct Drive Preset
• Snetterton: Revised AIWs; Added garage walls & detais; draw distance adjustments; Adjusted pit & start lights; Racing groove & other minor graphical updates
• Puma Series: Added multiple performances to puma series
• F-Classic: Fixed mistakenly commited audio experiment
• SuperV8: Replaced Plasto Racing Team with Scuderia Basilea

An epic sim - long live AMS!

Automobilista is available now exclusively for PC.

For news and discussions about this PC exclusive racing simulator, head on over to the AMS sub forum here at RaceDepartment and keep in touch with everything Automobilista. If news isnt enough to quench your AMS thirst, why not sign up for a race in our Automobilista Racing Club? Fun times, great racing and an epic community - check it out here.

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[Marc Collins]

I'm probably missing something, but how would a developer make that work for someone like me that has a wheel with ~200 degrees of physical rotation lock to lock?

Exactly. The hardware varies dramatically from toy 180 degrees to professional 1080 degrees. If I paid a small fortune for a 1080 degree wheel, I would want to use those extra 180 degrees

 

[Spinelli]

I'm probably missing something, but how would a developer make that work for someone like me that has a wheel with ~200 degrees of physical rotation lock to lock?

You're very right, my method assumes every one has at-least 900 degrees to use. I thought all wheels, even the real low-end stuff nowadays, had at-least 900 degrees.

How about the exact same method in my previous post but while allowing users to enter in their wheels' lock in case they have less than 900 or want to use more than 900 (1080, 1260, whatever)? What am I missing here that the stops can't just simply be applied from the games' side therefore avoiding all sorts of work (programming for all the different wheel manufacturers & models), problems, over-complications, requirements to update, etc.?

 

[Marc Collins]

You're very right, my method assumes every one has at-least 900 degrees to use. I thought all wheels, even the real low-end stuff nowadays, had at-least 900 degrees.

How about the exact same method in my previous post but while allowing users to enter in their wheels' lock in case they have less than 900 or want to use more than 900 (1080, 1260, whatever)? What am I missing here that the stops can't just simply be applied from the games' side therefore avoiding all sorts of work (programming for all the different wheel manufacturers & models), problems, over-complications, requirements to update, etc.?

Not how things work any more. You could apply the same logic to graphics, audio, printers, scanners, etc., like we had in the olden days. Devices connect to operating system. App talks to operating system. Apps do not talk to devices directly. Decades of experience (and compatibility nightmares) led to what we have now.

The problem is when certain hardware manufacturers suck at software or do not fully support their own older equipment or the devs trying to help the joint customers who use the stuff. The same variations exist with all other hardware, too. Have NVIDIA and AMD/ATI always followed the same approach to graphics card drivers and support? Look up SoundBlaster history and unbelievable issues. Etc...

 

[Gringo]

The real cars have semi fixed steering rotation, that is the point, and AMS tries to simulate that within a reasonable (more than really) range adjustable in the vehicle setup. DD wheels are infinite if I understand, and if you have hardware that supports 1080 but the cars limit is 900... how is that an issue. (Regarding stock content do any cars have more rotation than 900?)

If your controller has a limit like 180 - 200 deg then its not for auto sim use. Maybe for karts.

I must be missing something.

 

[BillGuy]

If your controller has a limit like 180 - 200 deg then its not for auto sim use. Maybe for karts.

My controller with the ~200 degrees of rotation is an ECCI Trackstar 6000 from early 2006. At the time it was among the top controllers available anywhere. The relative quantity of wheel controllers with larger amounts of available rotation that we have today didn’t really come into being until several years later. So to say that a low lock controller like mine is not for auto sim use is something I can’t really agree with.
Having said that, however, there are a couple of exceptions that might be "unacceptable territory" depending on one’s personal priorities. The low physical wheel lock absolutely does make super tight hairpins like Monaco, Macau, and modern Hockenheim effectively impossible. Some garage exits are problems as well depending on the width of the pit lane or paddock aisle. I have no issues at all driving anywhere else.

 

[Gringo]

So to say that a low lock controller like mine is not for auto sim use is something I can’t really agree with.

Yes. Sure I dont mean that you cant enjoy the racing, or be competitive. Just that in the strict sense of the "sim" if you cant replicate the rotation then you can't experience the effort required to drive the car.

I know a few that use hand controllers that are super fast drivers. Which annoys me to no end.

Its akin to the brakes... if you have a load cell brake its a bit closer to the real thing. That is it takes a lot of physical effort to slow the car, and lap after lap this effort takes its toll on the driver.

If you have the budget then you can get these controls that get a lot closer to the real physical effort required to race a car in anger.

That said, enjoy the racing as you will. I know that the DD wheel guys often reduce the overall forces to just have fun.

Cheers

 

[Case_]

My controller with the ~200 degrees of rotation is an ECCI Trackstar 6000 from early 2006. At the time it was among the top controllers available anywhere. The relative quantity of wheel controllers with larger amounts of available rotation that we have today didn’t really come into being until several years later. So to say that a low lock controller like mine is not for auto sim use is something I can’t really agree with.

Your low lock controller might have been an amazing state-of-the-art product at the time of its release, but sadly, it doesn't change the fact it doesn't quite cut it for sim use almost 14 years later.

(But I mean - if you enjoy simracing with a low lock controller like this that can't give you accurate rotation for pretty much any car out there, by all means. Just don't be surprised when people don't share the same opinion about a controller that from today's point of view is certainly very lacking at least in some aspects.)

 

[Marc Collins]

Who is satisfied with which quality of controller is a dumb (purely personal opinion) discussion diversion. The issue is how does a dev support a wide variety of hardware, including things that haven't arrived on the market yet but will be in the market before the end of the useful life of their software? Reiza is doing it the correct/industry-standard way with AMS, despite the headaches certain hardware and software combinations cause (all devs).

 

[BillGuy]

Well said Marc. I’ll add that whatever Reiza or any other developer may consider for future titles, just please don’t implement steering setup and config like Kunos did with the original AC. That’s the perfect example of how *not* to do it, IMO.

 

[Spinelli]

Not how things work any more. You could apply the same logic to graphics, audio, printers, scanners, etc., like we had in the olden days. Devices connect to operating system. App talks to operating system. Apps do not talk to devices directly. Decades of experience (and compatibility nightmares) led to what we have now.

The problem is when certain hardware manufacturers suck at software or do not fully support their own older equipment or the devs trying to help the joint customers who use the stuff. The same variations exist with all other hardware, too. Have NVIDIA and AMD/ATI always followed the same approach to graphics card drivers and support? Look up SoundBlaster history and unbelievable issues. Etc...

I'm not sure what you mean. It's the compatibility nightmares (as you put it) that would exactly be avoided if the game applied steering locks by itself instead of it trying to talk/communicate with the wheel's drivers to change the lock from that end.

It would also be universal and work for any wheel, ever. Furthermore, if you don't want or have available that lock or overall steering ratio then you'd still have the ability to adjust it manually like now.

Think of how many months, years there have been where certain wheels didn't have auto-rotation available for a certain game. Add up all the months where x wheel model did not work with x game (even if just temporarily due to a bug or update), you'll have many years of non-functioning auto-rotation.

 

[Marc Collins]

I'm not sure what you mean. It's the compatibility nightmares (as you put it) that would exactly be avoided if the game applied steering locks by itself instead of it trying to talk/communicate with the wheel's drivers to change the lock from that end.

It would also be universal and work for any wheel, ever. Furthermore, if you don't want or have available that lock or overall steering ratio then you'd still have the ability to adjust it manually like now.

Think of how many months, years there have been where certain wheels didn't have auto-rotation available for a certain game. Add up all the months where x wheel model did not work with x game (even if just temporarily due to a bug or update), you'll have many years of non-functioning auto-rotation.

The examples have already been given above. A car has a 540 degree lock range in real life, so the game implements a corresponding 540 degree lock. If I have a 360 degree wheel, what happens? Do I get only the first 360 degrees of the 540? If my 360 hardware has to instead scale to the 540 degrees software requirement, how does that happen in the approach you are describing? There are about 50 more examples of mismatches (both directions) that cannot be accommodated internally within the sim. And that's just lock, not counting the FFB and its scaling and all the special features spread across the various higher-end wheels.

If you do not understand this, better to just conclude that all the people at Reiza and every other sim-maker who are all trying to do their best to implement the industry-standard approach for the maximum variety of hardware to ensure the maximum number of customers can enjoy their product are not insane or stupid and all overlooking some obvious alternative that would be easier/better. And, you can extend that to every modern sim and game in the Windows universe that has abandoned programming for specific graphics cards and specific sound cards and specific network cards, etc., etc., etc.

 

[Spinelli]

The examples have already been given above. A car has a 540 degree lock range in real life, so the game implements a corresponding 540 degree lock. If I have a 360 degree wheel, what happens? Do I get only the first 360 degrees of the 540? If my 360 hardware has to instead scale to the 540 degrees software requirement, how does that happen in the approach you are describing?

It would be no different than the way it is now. If your wheel has a max of 360 degrees of steering rotation, and the car has a default of 540 degrees of steering rotation & 18 degrees of steering lock then that would be a 15:1 steering ratio (540 / 18 / 2 = 15). If you don't want to keep this steering ratio because your wheels' 360 degrees is not enough for, let's say, the sharpest hairpin or drifting then, by all means, feel free to go in the car-setup and increase the steering lock to 20 degrees or 24 or whatever you wish.

Nothing would change compared to the current system (ability for user to change steering lock without changing rotation) - identical.

There are about 50 more examples of mismatches (both directions) that cannot be accommodated internally within the sim. And that's just lock, not counting the FFB and its scaling and all the special features spread across the various higher-end wheels.

What are a few (2 or 3) of these 50 or so mismatches the sim won't be able to internally accommodate for? You make a good point regarding out-of-game effects. If FFB manufacturers' FFB effects/filters behave differently from just a steering rotation (from the driver) change then the wheel's driver would have to be set to the correct steering rotation to match the car otherwise driver FFB effects/filters may not work fully as intended. If that is indeed the case then, you're right, it's vital to have the game's auto-rotation do it "properly" from the driver itself.

If you do not understand this, better to just conclude that all the people at Reiza and every other sim-maker who are all trying to do their best to implement the industry-standard approach for the maximum variety of hardware to ensure the maximum number of customers can enjoy their product are not insane or stupid and all overlooking some obvious alternative that would be easier/better.

I was never insinuating that Reiza or any other sim-makers aren't trying to do their best nor that they're insane nor stupid, geez.

And, you can extend that to every modern sim and game in the Windows universe that has abandoned programming for specific graphics cards and specific sound cards and specific network cards, etc., etc., etc.

Are you saying that most modern sims and games in the Windows universe have indeed abandoned "programming for specific graphics cards and specific sound cards and specific network cards, etc., etc., etc." or that most have not abandoned doing so? What I'm proposing is for sim-devs to abandon specific-programming and vie instead for a single, more reliable, universally compatible, easy-to-implement & maintain, reduced resource-using (work-hours, etc.) method. However, if it won't work because of what you mentioned about driver FFB effects/filters, well, then it won't work and I thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Marc Collins]

It would be no different than the way it is now. If your wheel has a max of 360 degrees of steering rotation, and the car has a default of 540 degrees of steering rotation & 18 degrees of steering lock then that would be a 15:1 steering ratio (540 / 18 / 2 = 15). If you don't want to keep this steering ratio because your wheels' 360 degrees is not enough for, let's say, the sharpest hairpin or drifting then, by all means, feel free to go in the car-setup and increase the steering lock to 20 degrees or 24 or whatever you wish.

Nothing would change compared to the current system (ability for user to change steering lock without changing rotation) - identical.

What are a few (2 or 3) of these 50 or so mismatches the sim won't be able to internally accommodate for? You make a good point regarding out-of-game effects. If FFB manufacturers' FFB effects/filters behave differently from just a steering rotation (from the driver) change then the wheel's driver would have to be set to the correct steering rotation to match the car otherwise driver FFB effects/filters may not work fully as intended. If that is indeed the case then, you're right, it's vital to have the game's auto-rotation do it "properly" from the driver itself.

I was never insinuating that Reiza or any other sim-makers aren't trying to do their best nor that they're insane nor stupid, geez.

Are you saying that most modern sims and games in the Windows universe have indeed abandoned "programming for specific graphics cards and specific sound cards and specific network cards, etc., etc., etc." or that most have not abandoned doing so? What I'm proposing is for sim-devs to abandon specific-programming and vie instead for a single, more reliable, universally compatible, easy-to-implement & maintain, reduced resource-using (work-hours, etc.) method. However, if it won't work because of what you mentioned about driver FFB effects/filters, well, then it won't work and I thank you for pointing that out.

This is going to turn into another "Spin" endless discussion. So I am out after this reply.

If you cannot see the difference between the seamless and effortless result (when it works properly) of the current system versus so many people having to fiddle with steering settings to compensate for their wheels, then you are truly clueless. I have had to adjust a total of zero cars steering ratio in AMS since the day it arrived. They are all "normal" enough to be considered authentic and my wheel auto-scales to them perfectly. I wouldn't even need to know there was a steering adjustment. Neither would 99.99% of the rest of the users once all the major wheels were supported via the proper procedure. That's why devs bother to code all this stuff.

If you prefer to fiddle for no productive reason, go at it, but do not impose that on the rest of the customer base or expect that the rest of us will think it has some useful value.

 

[E304LIFE]

The most underrated sim on the market imo. As always, thanks a bunch Reiza.

 

[Spinelli]

This is going to turn into another "Spin" endless discussion. So I am out after this reply.

If you cannot see the difference between the seamless and effortless result (when it works properly) of the current system versus so many people having to fiddle with steering settings to compensate for their wheels, then you are truly clueless. I have had to adjust a total of zero cars steering ratio in AMS since the day it arrived. They are all "normal" enough to be considered authentic and my wheel auto-scales to them perfectly. I wouldn't even need to know there was a steering adjustment. Neither would 99.99% of the rest of the users once all the major wheels were supported via the proper procedure. That's why devs bother to code all this stuff.

If you prefer to fiddle for no productive reason, go at it, but do not impose that on the rest of the customer base or expect that the rest of us will think it has some useful value.

Man, you really have a lot of anger and hate in you. Why do you have to speak so hostile? I'm talking about a videogame feature and a possible different way of doing it - or why it wouldn't work - and instead you reply in a personal manner towards me with such a confrontational tone. First you implied that I think Reiza or other sim-makers aren't trying to do their best and that they're insane and stupid, and now you say that maybe I'm truley clueless. Chill out.

I don't know what you're going off about regarding fiddling with settings and such. Even with the current auto-rotation system the way it is, you can still adjust the steering lock in the car's garage if you don't like the steering ratio. Eg. If someone only has a 180 degree rotation wheel, they may want to increase the car's steering lock in the garage to be able to turn the tyres more for the same amount of physical wheel rotation (ie. faster steering ratio) since they're physically limited to 180 degrees. That applies to, both, the current auto-rotation method used by most games and the one I explained.

I even said that if what you said about FFB effects/filters acting differently based on the driver's rotation (FFB scaling and such) that you'd then be CORRECT and I THANKED YOU for pointing that out to me. I thought I'd do so as a nice gesture to decrease all the friction in your posts...but what do I get in response? More confrontational, jerk-like replies from you.

If you cannot see the difference between the seamless and effortless result (when it works properly) of the current system versus so many people having to fiddle with steering settings to compensate for their wheels, then you are truly clueless.

??? Of course I can see the difference between the "seamless and effortless result" and having to manually adjust steering rotation and lock. I never said we should NOT have auto-steering rotation and go back to manual like RF1. Having auto-rotation is exactly what I'm advocating for, lol. It's like you didn't read my posts or flipped everything I said backwards. I suggest you read & try to understand what others say before replying especially if you intend to reply with such a toxic tone.


I've started a new thread about this in case anyone's interested:
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/question-about-sims-and-auto-steering-rotation.173464/

 

[Marc Collins]

Man, you really have a lot of anger and hate in you. Why do you have to speak so hostile? I'm talking about a videogame feature and a possible different way of doing it - or why it wouldn't work - and instead you reply in a personal manner towards me with such a confrontational tone. First you implied that I think Reiza or other sim-makers aren't trying to do their best and that they're insane and stupid, and now you say that maybe I'm truley clueless. Chill out.

I don't know what you're going off about regarding fiddling with settings and such. Even with the current auto-rotation system the way it is, you can still adjust the steering lock in the car's garage if you don't like the steering ratio. Eg. If someone only has a 180 degree rotation wheel, they may want to increase the car's steering lock in the garage to be able to turn the tyres more for the same amount of physical wheel rotation (ie. faster steering ratio) since they're physically limited to 180 degrees. That applies to, both, the current auto-rotation method used by most games and the one I explained.

I even said that if what you said about FFB effects/filters acting differently based on the driver's rotation (FFB scaling and such) that you'd then be CORRECT and I THANKED YOU for pointing that out to me. I thought I'd do so as a nice gesture to decrease all the friction in your posts...but what do I get in response? More confrontational, jerk-like replies from you.


??? Of course I can see the difference between the "seamless and effortless result" and having to manually adjust steering rotation and lock. I never said we should NOT have auto-steering rotation and go back to manual like RF1. Having auto-rotation is exactly what I'm advocating for, lol. It's like you didn't read my posts or flipped everything I said backwards. I suggest you read & try to understand what others say before replying especially if you intend to reply with such a toxic tone.


I've started a new thread about this in case anyone's interested:
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/question-about-sims-and-auto-steering-rotation.173464/

My apologies for my tone. I was (over-) reacting to your reply that seemed to ignore the prior points and go back to repeating your same points, which reminded me of other threads of yours we have participated in. However, I stand by the facts of what I wrote and will not reply about them again (as I said above).

 

[BP]

Has RTSS stopped working for anyone since these recent updates? Game runs seemingly fine, but I would like to get RTSS working with it again.

 

[Spinelli]

My apologies for my tone. I was (over-) reacting to your reply that seemed to ignore the prior points and go back to repeating your same points, which reminded me of other threads of yours we have participated in. However, I stand by the facts of what I wrote and will not reply about them again (as I said above).

It's all good, Marc. I may have seemed like I was repeating previous points because your responses sounded like you were misunderstanding me. Thanks for the message

Has RTSS stopped working for anyone since these recent updates? Game runs seemingly fine, but I would like to get RTSS working with it again.

I'll check in an hour or 2. Rivatuner 7.2.2 & 7.2.3 working fine here w/ AMS.

 

[BP]

Rivatuner 7.2.2 & 7.2.3 working fine here w/ AMS.

Hmmm I updated mine (as well as afterburner) and it still doesn't show up anymore. I have no clue what changed...It was working fine before this latest hotfix.

Also, did anyone notice that they added native support for various Fanatec-specific options in control settings?? Not sure if it was this latest update when it happened, but there's a "Fanatec options" button where you can enable or disable various options, change the mode for rotary switches as well as adjust the brightness of the LEDs and the strength of the rumble motors. First sim since RaceRoom that has used all the features of Fanatec pedals, very happy about that. Wish other sims would follow suit, Fanatec put out the SDK for the rumble motors years ago AFAIK.

 

[Spinelli]

Hmmm I updated mine (as well as afterburner) and it still doesn't show up anymore. I have no clue what changed...It was working fine before this latest hotfix.

Also, did anyone notice that they added native support for various Fanatec-specific options in control settings?? Not sure if it was this latest update when it happened, but there's a "Fanatec options" button where you can enable or disable various options, change the mode for rotary switches as well as adjust the brightness of the LEDs and the strength of the rumble motors. First sim since RaceRoom that has used all the features of Fanatec pedals, very happy about that. Wish other sims would follow suit, Fanatec put out the SDK for the rumble motors years ago AFAIK.

Check your OSD settings in Afterburner / Rivatuner. Maybe something somehow got disabled or changed. As long as you don't uninstall anything, your settings should stay if it's an install over the current install. I'd check the various settings for the OSD and such.