Assetto Corsa Competizione Blog Post 2: Tyres

Paul Jeffrey

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Kunos Simulazioni physics expert Aris has been putting pen to paper once again, this time talking about how tyres behave in ACC...


If you missed it yesterday, Aristotelis Vasilakos of Kunos Simulazioni has started a new blog post series providing a very enlightening and entertaining look at the physics work behind the scenes in Assetto Corsa Competizione, promising to release regular insights into the work undertaken so far on this new and still under development racing simulation from the people behind the hugely popular Assetto Corsa.

In his latest wall of text, Aris takes us on a journey of discovery around the world of tyres, and what they do and how they react in the upcoming Assetto Corsa Competizione... all very exciting stuff, and continue to do wonders to build anticipation for the new title ahead of Early Access release on September 12th.

You can read the full blog post below:

Tyres! And rain… But first…

The Rules!
The Blancpain gt series uses Pirelli tyres. Different sizes for different groups of cars, mainly 3 sizes depending the weight bias of the car. So front engine cars usually get 325/705/18 all around, mid engined cars get 325/680/18-325/705/18 front-rear and rear engined cars 325/660/18-325/705/18 front-rear.

Compound is one and unique for all races, all circuits, all cars. This means that this single compound must work in all cars, all weather conditions and all kind of circuits.

The above information is crucial in order to understand that these kind of tyres have an extremely difficult job to do. They have to work on cars that go from 40%, down to 55% of their weight to the front. Heavy cars that go up to 1500kg at full race trim while at the same time support well over 500kg of downforce, have to withstand at least 1 hour of hard racing before changing tyres and are driven in various circuits on various ambient temperatures by professionals and gentlemen drivers. At first I also thought “hey that’s easy, I only have 1 compound to do”, then as development went forward and Pirelli and teams started sharing data (thank you so much!) I knew I was into big big trouble… Luckily I have master Stefano always willing to accept a challenge!

Let’s start with the slick tyres.

Slicks have a wide operating range. They give decent grip from 40°C and up to 130°C. Obviously they have a narrower optimum range around 70°C to 90°C. Pirelli defines optimum pressure at 29psi (almost 2bar) but most teams will run a little bit lower. Pirelli though, advises against very low pressures as it is easy to deflate a low pressure tyre on a kerb or similar conditions… For safety reasons it is prohibited to go lower than 20psi (1.4bar) as minimum inflation pressure.

The tyres are always in preheated in tyre heater racks up to 70°C but realistically around 65°C, so expect to start any session (except maybe hotlap) with tyres at around 65°C core.

Pressure in AC now influences the stiffness rate in a non linear way and differently for vertical, lateral and longitudinal. The whole footprint flexes in all 3 axis and I believe you will definitely feel this when attacking kerbs. Damping of the tyre is also affected by heat.

The heating in ACC now has 3 interacting layers. Surface, core and inside air.

The surface heat is quite active, going fast up and down while influenced from slip, flex, rolling speed, ambient temperature, road temperature, air speed and rotational speed. Obviously it exchanges heat with the inner core too.

The inner core, is influenced mainly by rolling speed, flex and surface and inner air temperature.
The inside air is exchanging heat from the core and… brake heat.


For the first time though, we are not going to show you everything, just what the real teams get to look at, which means pressure and core IMO temperatures.

Tyre wear
This is now calculated in 3 separated IMO layers in a way that camber and toe can affect different parts of the tyre wear. If you use excessive amounts of camber and toe on a circuit with very long straights, then you will experience much more wear (and heat, more about it in a minute) on the Inner side of the tyre, making braking and traction worse but not affecting a lot lateral grip… and vice versa of course. Tyre wear is also implemented in a different way. We actually simulate the tread depth and we lower the depth as the tyre wears out. So you start with 3mm of depth at fresh tyres and you wear this out. Normally the teams and Pirelli consider a tyre as a very consumed one at under 1.5mm. The tyre wear is influenced by the distance covered, but most importantly by the slip. The more you slip the tyre, the more it wears and by “slip” we consider not only actual dragging the tyre on turns, braking and acceleration but also toe and camber, so again, watch out on how you setup your car.

Another important factor for wear is surface temperature. The harder you drive the more surface heat you generate, the faster the tyres wear out. Heck you could completely destroy a tyre by doing donuts for some minutes… Obviously you are not going to monitor tyre’s surface temps as it is rapidly changing and hardly measurable in real time (in the real life), but if your core temperatures are on target, then the smoother you drive the less wear you’ll have. Also graining, blistering and flatspotting are still there, with all vibrations now acting also on the suspension movement. Pirelli points out that those tyres do not suffer much of graining and blistering, but if you keep using wet tyres on the dry, well don’t expect miracles. TC and ABS levels can also play a role here. Since flex also influences tyre heat, a stiff suspension and dampers as well as high downforce, can also influence the tyre wear…. so many things, so little time, I know.

The Overall Feelings
All of this works together, obviously in real time and affects many aspects of the tyre behaviour. This is one of the biggest improvements of ACC. Heat, wear, grip, do not just influence tyre grip but actually change the tyre behaviour. Slipangles and slipratios, stiffness rate and damping, lateral and longitudinal flex that is now also simulated, all of them change in real time, depending all of the above factors. You can expect a cold slick tyre to not only have less grip, but to be way more nasty and on the edge. So if it starts raining and you’re on slicks, before aquaplaning issues, you might have to deal with a much more nervous car behaviour because the tyres lost heat and pressure. A consumed tyre has less flex too, generates less core heat and has different peak splipangles. You might find the grip acceptable but the behaviour changed for the worse. All is extremely dynamic and lots of placebo is going to occur…Be brave and endure the difficulties ;)

ACC 1.jpg


Still, there’s more. ACC now simulates variable dynamic weather and so we have…

Rain.
Rain in ACC is not simulated by simply lowering the grip. We simulate mathematically an actual water film depth. Tyres go over it and depending on tread design, load, speed and more, they manage to drain the water out and have a contact with the ground… or not. If the tyre can’t drain enough water, then it starts losing contact, up to complete aquaplaning, which means total loss of grip, zero, null, nada. So in ACC the feeling you get from a wet circuit is a good grip but a constant feeling of “something is about to happen”. You might do a turn in a specific way and feel there’s more than enough grip, you might even think “hey that was easy after all, arcade™!”, only to push a tiny bit more the lap after, or have the rain fall harder 3 laps later and go completely aquaplaning sliding out of the corner. The wetness also lowers drastically the heat generated by the surface layer of the tyre, so temperature of the tyres will go down inevitably.


Slicks can go into aquaplaning very VERY easy. I strongly suggest that you watch the first laps of the Hungaroring race1 of the Blancpain GT Series to understand how cars on slick struggle on damp conditions, but also how the BMW M6 that had wet tyres could work his way from 11th position to 2nd and struggle right afterwards when the dry line started to form. You can also see him searching for wet spots to cool down the wet tyres. Here's the video. Race starts in 33:00

Also in ACC wet tyres will overheat dramatically in dry conditions and you can cool them down going outside the dry line, searching for wet spots. Beware that in such conditions it’s easy to place one side of a car in the wet spot or puddle, resulting in high rolling resistance force from the water depth (and sudden aquaplaning) that can easily destabilze your car.

I will also mention the obvious…there is no way you can stay on the track under heavy rain on slick tyres. We’re not talking being slow or having difficulties to control the car… we’re talking complete and utter loss of control and sliding around on “ice”. Fear not though, for people that want to experience the graphical majesty of rain conditions but in a less hardcore grip situation, we have a nice option slider that will lower the amount of physics water… just for fun.

Staying on the dynamic track subject, here’s how a track surface changes through different conditions.
  • A green track will get gradually rubbered. marbles can appear at the side of the rubbered line
  • If rain starts then (depending on the force) it will wet the track and the rubbered line will start to be very slippery. You might be forced to avoid it or explore alternative lines.
  • If rain keeps on pouring heavy enough, it will clean the rubbered line and you might be able to turn back to a more traditional racing line. When this happens? I don’t know, try, experiment and find out!
  • If rain keeps on going, puddles and “rivers” might start forming. Those also might force you to try different lines again. Puddles and rivers are placed in specific realistic places on the circuits, derived from actual drivers feedback and their onboard videos.
  • If rain is lighter or stops and many cars are lapping, a dry line might form or simply a “less wet” line. You will obviously have more grip over the dry line but wet tyres will overheat.
  • Finally puddles will be the last to dry out, so watch out even if the track is slightly damp and slick tyres are faster, puddles can still catch you out.
Obviously this is a generic description of how the whole system works: in reality and when the whole thing will be finalized, your experience might vary a lot and can become more unpredictable. The whole idea behind it, is to have deal with unpredictable conditions that will force you to adapt.

Special guest…

Marbles.
Did you know that real drivers will go over the marbles to collect them on their slick tyres so that they gain a kind of “tread” which lowers a tiny bit the risk of aquaplaning? Of course you’ll have to deal with less grip and vibrations, but nothing is worse than aquaplaning and it might help you until you go in for your pitstop… or the rain might go away and you’re f***ed… ops!


Then we have tyre damage… but that’s something we still working on and I’ll explain it to you later.

So, what’s next? Aero I guess… back to writing. (where’s my coffee!)

Assetto Corsa Competizione will be available to purchase on Steam Early Access from September 12th 2018.

ACC 3.jpg


Check out the Assetto Corsa Competizione here at RaceDepartment for the latest news and discussions regarding this exciting upcoming sim. We intend to host some quality League and Club Racing events as well as hosting some great community created mods (we hope!). Join in the discussion today.

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Like the sound of these blog posts so far? Looking forward to ACC day 1? Let us know your thoughts in the comments section below!
 
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  • Deleted member 113561

All real data in Aris hand aren't my opinion and you are a little too arrogant for my taste.
So good manners, please.
Real data has nothing to do with "Kunos has the most dedicated developers in the business!"
Not to mention that other sims like Project CARS 1/2, iRacing, R3E, rFactor 1/2 use real data from manufacturers, its not that unusual.

Arrogance is still better than stupidness or fanboyism or narcissism.
 
  • Deleted member 113561

Sounds like a decent tyre-model this time:whistling::D
Tire model was already good in Assetto Corsa. It is also dependent on FFB, that's why many people precept Project CARS 2 so bad, when infact the tire model is pretty good, just the FFB is sometimes dogshit.
Nicki Thiim opinion on that (iRacing vs Assetto Corsa vs Raceroom) (I don't say he is not biased/influenced, but with the comments he gives it seems to be fair & logical critic)

P.s. Sry for not merging comments ...
 
I love doing setups and i know most people don't have a clue what to adjust for changing the car behavior to what they want. I have almost 2k hours on my Steam-account in AC and spend likely a third if not 50% of the time doing setups, but there are exploits in some cars you can't find just by using setup-rules. GT3-cars have too much downforce for many tracks on default, the soft slicks have too low pressure and overheat in no time, so you always have to do two setups for qualifying and race, which is annoying as f....

And while trying to setup GT3-cars for low-downforce you really get into some trouble regarding physics and that's why i appreciate the new physics. Kunos seems to know very well what is not that good in AC.
Well I have more than 3k AC hours and about 90% of those with GT3 cars:thumbsup:.

But yeah, you're right that those who have no idea what to do with car need proper setups to drive and have fun because most of the time those people are not so fast as others can be. And because of that those setups usually have e.g. too much downforce.
Oh, and I have almost never done different setups for quali and race. Same set works just fine:thumbsup:. And I dare to say I am pretty good and fast sim driver.

Of course there's lot of flaws in AC like in all sims but hopefully ACC fix those. At least it's starting to sound pretty damn good so far.
 
Tire model was already good in Assetto Corsa. It is also dependent on FFB, that's why many people precept Project CARS 2 so bad, when infact the tire model is pretty good, just the FFB is sometimes dogshit.
Nicki Thiim opinion on that (iRacing vs Assetto Corsa vs Raceroom) (I don't say he is not biased/influenced, but with the comments he gives it seems to be fair & logical critic)

P.s. Sry for not merging comments ...

I don't think he's biased, he does a lot of racing in iRacing so if he would be biased at all, it would be towards iRacing. Plus, he doesn't say anything new about iRacing's tire model, you don't have to be a racing drive to feel/understand that something is missing there. I love almost everything about iRacing, been there since 2008, keep renewing my subscription every few months but I always leave in disappointment. Such a shame really...

Anyway, back to ACC, I'm not a fan of GT3 cars, but if you call yourself a sim-racer, you just gotta try it and see for yourself. And I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally hope people will find a way to mod the hell out of it :sneaky:
 
Real data has nothing to do with "Kunos has the most dedicated developers in the business!"
Not to mention that other sims like Project CARS 1/2, iRacing, R3E, rFactor 1/2 use real data from manufacturers, its not that unusual.
Arrogance is still better than stupidness or fanboyism or narcissism.
It is clear that the involvement of Kunos in the championship organized by SRO
is superior to all other sim/game developers, and for this reason they have access to a lot of data for GT3 cars, for dedicated tires, ecc...
Sorry I thought I was talking to an arrogant fanboy but I think I was wrong: you're worse!:)
 
Well I have more than 3k AC hours and about 90% of those with GT3 cars:thumbsup:.

But yeah, you're right that those who have no idea what to do with car need proper setups to drive and have fun because most of the time those people are not so fast as others can be. And because of that those setups usually have e.g. too much downforce.
Oh, and I have almost never done different setups for quali and race. Same set works just fine:thumbsup:. And I dare to say I am pretty good and fast sim driver.

Of course there's lot of flaws in AC like in all sims but hopefully ACC fix those. At least it's starting to sound pretty damn good so far.

I did over 1k hours in pCars 2 as well and over 300 in rF2. The setups IMO working better in both and similar. All fast setups in AC are more like hardcore-oversteer and try to deal with it. In pCars 2 i tried fast setups that are way too understeering and aero-dependent for my taste, but obviously faster in the hands of this people. That's what i want from ACC as well. Some like more aero push and more speed in corners, another more speed on the straights, some more oversteer and another less. No method should be a disadvantage per se. Even at Le Mans an aero of 0/0 is too slow and 0/3 or even more is faster, because with too low aero you loose too much speed in the corners regardless of your suspension setup.
 
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I did over 1k hours in pCars 2 as well and over 300 in rF2. The setups IMO working better in both and similar. All fast setups in AC are more like hardcore-oversteer and try to deal with it. In pCars 2 i tried fast setups that are way too understeering and aero-dependent for my taste, but obviously faster in the hands of this people. That's what i want from ACC as well. Some like more aero push and more speed in corners, another more speed on the straights, some more oversteer and another less. No method should be a disadvantage per se. Even at Le Mans an aero of 0/0 is too slow and 0/3 or even more is faster, because with too low aero you loose too much speed in the corners regardless of your suspension setup.
You would propably hate my setups because I love understeery setups:D
Can't wait all those ACC new rating systems where you can compare your driving and pace to other drivers. With AC you really can't compare your pace properly because there's no real leaderboards or rating system.
 
Wrong, it is formulated like a fact and it also spreads misinformation.
Many devs are really dedicated, you just normally don't hear nor see them. Games like Star Citizen, Assetto Corsa, Assetto Corsa Competitizione just decided to make them visible to the consumer.You basically have no clue whats going on behind the scenes at other devs like DICE, SMS, Studio 397, Bethesda, etc. etc. etc.


What the **** is that logic? Turn down the bullshit please.
With dedication does not come talent.

I think we all could agree that they are passionate, but saying that others are not as passionate or talented as them is mean and for sure not true. It's like I would say the work you do is of terrible quality, even you work 120% on ie. cancer cure.

Luck has nothing to do with it - that's what many people should start to realize. If you organize properly you have a very good chance of success - stuff like talent, investors (is the same as sponsors btw.), community, success come by themselves then. Ofc necessary is some sort of demand for it.

fanboys are one of the worst things of the 21st century

Does not matter how well you properly prepare for something there will always be factors out of your control. This is in my opinion where lady luck shows up. Of course, the more prepared you are, the better, but is not warranty of success. The pieces needs to be set on place, be on the right place at the right moment, which normally is out of your control.

Ahh... the never ending discussion about dedication vs talent. I totally believe dedication can develop the talent required to be successful, not on all cases, but its achievable. While talent without dedication, well, its a lost opportunity to be successful.
 
You would propably hate my setups because I love understeery setups:D
Can't wait all those ACC new rating systems where you can compare your driving and pace to other drivers. With AC you really can't compare your pace properly because there's no real leaderboards or rating system.
I was running enough races in SRS and the RSR-lap-times are a good info as well, so enough lap-times to compare.

To download the fastest setups is a nice feature in pCars 2 and just did it with the fastest Ferrari GT3 at Redbull Ring (1:27,5). It's still running an aero setup of 2/7 (of 2/10 maximum), which is really high and RBR not known for a high downforce setup, but there are enough highspeed-corners when you think about it. Jardier, who is similar fast is running a low-downforce setup with similar times. And that's what i call great setup-physics: being similar fast with two very different kind of setups.
 
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First time hearing understeery set up being fast... I do my own sets for AC in SRS. I am not a set up guru, nor alien but I think I am okay for top 3 most of the time. I just adjust what I know that will work for me. 'Loose is fast' is what I've learned from racing since 1990s... I usually use 3 front and 1 rear wings on GT cars, not all of the time, but most of them.

I will keep my expectations and opinions reserved... I've learned to accept that not one title can have it all. It's gonna be interesting and exciting, but not ground breaking I think. I like to prove myself wrong BTW... :cautious:
 
Well, to be honest RSR times aren't very good indicator. You could beat those times pretty much with one hand and eyes closed nowadays. It used to be when they started but not anymore. And I'm talking GT3 cars now.
And that's what i don't like about AC. In pCars 2 there is always the weight of the car first and no suspension or aero tricks make you faster without disadvantages. Cars in AC feels IMO nearly always paper-light and understeering. With the right numbers in the setup you go much faster and i know it. I admire some mods like the RSS GT-pack, Ginetta GT4, Corvette C6R and others, but they feel a lot more like rF2 and/or pCars 2 as well.
 
Your constant rf2 bashing is really annoying. Have you ever driven a (race-)car IRL? Do you know what "simulation" means?
Rfactor ain't right. If there were no AC then I would think Rfactor would be top of the pil. But AC just highlights RF2's unconvincing moments.

I have driven some cars including M2, M3, M4, M6, M4 GT4, F430, MP4, R8, GTR and an Atom as quickly as I could and AC stands out in terms of pure handling.
 
So real road is fake and a scripted system is new and going to suprise us? What kind of stuff are you smoking? :roflmao:
Let me try to explain to you, take in mind that may be some native language barriers and, some others:geek:.
For me GP4 was the best wet driving sim racing experience to date. Yes GP4, by the time was a PC Sim not a PC game.
I was expecting so must from rf2, so must promises that didn't happended. You referring " Real Road" , is it what they call it? sorry can't remember. A real mess, quite artificial scripted or not, track conditions changes just don't fell right and physics didn't give a real felling for me, Same for tyres flex and flat spots.
In the other hand AC was for me, a Simracing revolution, never had experiment a PC sim that give so must the perception that you driving the real thing. That's was the surprise factor.
I think it is mixing of real passion, real talent, and commitment, not to mention the proximity of the developer and the simracing community.
So, maybe you could check, for the first time or ones again, the official YouTube channel clip, SPA wet 488 race and understand what I am trying to say. Images are better than 1000 words.
Regards,
Pedro
 
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  • Deleted member 113561

I don't think he's biased, he does a lot of racing in iRacing so if he would be biased at all, it would be towards iRacing.
Was just me saying, don't take everything as if it was unbiased, but in this case I don't think he is :)
So many articles (software, hardware, etc.) is influenced by company. They gave you early access and ofc. you will write not bad/truth about them, you want these goodies again. That's why you can't trust reviews anymore but the user ones (and even there you have to be aware of fake ones).

Ahh... the never ending discussion about dedication vs talent. I totally believe dedication can develop the talent required to be successful, not on all cases, but its achievable. While talent without dedication, well, its a lost opportunity to be successful.
So you say, every Formula 1 driver can be a Senna, Schumacher or Hamilton?
No, some people are just better at things.
They can get close with hard work though and that's why I think with the proper organization and will you don't need luck, the success will come sooner or later by itself :) (this is specially meant for longterm)

It is clear that the involvement of Kunos in the championship organized by SRO
is superior to all other sim/game developers, and for this reason they have access to a lot of data for GT3 cars, for dedicated tires, ecc...
Sorry I thought I was talking to an arrogant fanboy but I think I was wrong: you're worse!:)
LEL, this is fanboyism right there and you even believe you are right (so much bullshit in one comment I haven't seen in a month).
You are not worth further commenting, you just beat yourself
 
Well, there may be not objective way to measure certain things, but something that for me is very evident is the passion Kunos have for the work they do. I can feel the enthusiasm and excitement of @Aristotelis when I read his blogs. For me its a reflection of how much they love the work they do, and the dedication they put on it.

We are very lucky all the required pieces (talent, sponsors, investors, community) have been put together in order to make ACC a reality.
This is so true!:thumbsup:
Who can say better then that?
 

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