AMS 2 Announced - MADNESS Engine Confirmed!

[Paul Jeffrey]

The announcement is here! Read on for some very big news regarding the next racing game project from Reiza Studios.

Having earned considerable good will from the sim racing community thanks to their outstanding work on GSCE and Automobilista, Reiza Studios confirmed they planned on developing and releasing a new racing title in the very near future. For various reasons that "very near future" turned into a couple of years or so, and the original working title of 'Reiza '17' quickly became obsolete.

Well folks, wait no more - the announcement is here!

Let’s be honest, we expected this to be good... and good it is. Firstly, let’s talk about the surprise aspect of the announcement today – the game engine.

Most folks would be willing to throw down money on Reiza taking hold of the rFactor 2 ISI gMotor2 and bolting on an external graphics engine… but Reiza have surprised us all with an announcement we didn’t expect – AMS 2 will be using the Slightly Mad Studios developed Madness engine!

So what does that mean? Well it means day-to-night transitions. It means dynamic weather and it means VR! Yes, all those things that sim racers ask for, wrapped up in an impressive graphics engine that gives good framerates. Oh, and with the Reiza magic touch regarding physics and force feedback thrown into the mix. Awesome.

So, what else do we know? Well looking at the new trailer, we see the now legendary StockCar Series and Interlargos circuit, giving us a couple of exceptional pieces of content, and leading me to believe that AMS 2 will once again have a focus on the Brazilian racing scene at its core – which is excellent news in my opinion.

Other highlights from trailer has to be the incredible 1991 Ayrton Senna McLaren Honda! The Brazilian legend, a legendary Brazilian development studio - how awesome is that!

All in, this announcement sounds like fantastic news from Reiza, and well, well worth the wait!

The Reiza announcement in full:

Automobilista 2 is the culmination of a project developed over the course of nearly a decade. At its core, it is a comprehensive simulation of the Brazilian motorsports scene, featuring all major Brazilian racing series, race tracks and manufacturers.

Automobilista 2 will also celebrate Brazilian motorsports heritage by featuring some of the country´s most iconic heroes and achievements through its rich history in the sport.

Packing an even larger roster of diverse cars and tracks than its predecessor, Automobilista 2 will venture further into the best of international motorsports, including prestigious brands such as McLaren and BMW along with iconic venues such as Brands Hatch and Imola, at the same time continuing to explore the more exotic and exciting forms of motorsports from around the world.

Boosted by a new technical partnership with the developers of the award-winning Project CARS series, Automobilista 2 is built on the MADNESS engine, providing incredible graphical quality, the most advanced dynamic weather and track condition systems in a racing simulator and superior VR support, to deliver a substantial realism upgrade and a fully immersive visual experience.

With Automobilista 2 we aim to combine the strengths that made its predecessor unique with major evolutions in all areas. The sim will offer some exclusive features for both single player and multiplayer, which we look forward to sharing over the remaining months of development!


AMS 2 is set to release December 2019.

For the latest news and discussion items in relation to the newly announced new racing simulation from Reiza Studios, head over to our brand new AMS 2 sub forum, and never miss a thing again!

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[Ghoults]

All these things you speak of have nothing to do with being on the same engine, they are developer choices.

It's a bit like saying:
Painter A paints a picture using certain paints, a specific brush and a specific canvas.
You hate Painter A's picture.
Painter B uses the exact same paints, brush and canvas as Painter A.

Does this means Painter B's picture is gonna suck as well by default?

I think the analogy you used there is not quite right. Any game engine puts more strict and very peculiar limitations to what you can do with them. A lot of the developer choices are actually limitations and features of the engine and to make it do something it can't means you need to add those features yourself (if you can).

The painter analogy works better if one painter uses just red colors and paints on rocks using sticks and the other painter uses just green colors and paints them on paper using his nose. Both can only use what they got in the toolkit. Clearly there is a difference there because the paints and brushes and canvases are different. The second painter can not just start using brushes and other painting tools unless he gets them from somewhere.

That somewhere is the engine and if rf2 can't do career modes, vanilla ac can't do weather and raceroom doesn't do skinning then you as a developer are stuck with those brushes unless you make new ones (if you can). The madness engine seems to offer many brushes but for many people it has not been showcased yet that the engine can actually do all those things well. Reiza on the other hand has been proven to be a quite talented painter but with rf1 engine his selection of brushes was somewhat limited and outdated even if lots of people fundamentally liked their pictures.

But in the end certain painters do paint certain type of pictures. SMS has done nfs shift games and pcars games. Kunos has done nkpro, ac and acc. Iracing has basically done gpl, nascar games and iracing. Simbin/sector 3 have been doing their own race series games. Codemasters have done their f1 games, dirt and grid games. And reiza has done formula truck, stockcar extreme and automobilista. I think in each case the type of games they make have their own clear distinctive styles and I don't think it is wrong at all to say different painters do paint different pictures and some of them you like and some of them you dislike because how your personal desires line up or don't with the feature sets of those different games and developers. You don't really expect a simcade from kunos, isi or reiza just like you don't expect a simulator from codemasters. And the way each of them handles things like career modes and online content is very much standardized in their own lineage of games. Which in my mind typically means that if you like one of their products you typically like the rest. Or don't.

 

[smasha]

I will say PC2 has the best presentation of all the sims,graphics engine is solid,I use the msaa set low and supersampling on for the best results.

Also with a g27,I have found that you need to lower the gain and put the fx ffb setting to 0,some cars behave differently to others with ffb,I love the open wheel trainer vehicles you choose at the start of a career,they have really good physics as well.

Nascar was at the other end of the scale,rattling ffb,but I guess Daytona has a lot of surface issues??

Anyway,since turning down the gain,which is not everyone’s cup of cha,I have had more fun with PC2.

I used the gyro setting on the ds4 gamepad for the PS4 version of PC1 which is alot of fun.

Reiza with the mad engine should be a great match.

 

[Durge Driven]

do not confuse ISImotor 2.0 (ams, & co) and ISIMotor 2.5 just rF2 it seems to me!

+1
Has S397 made new tires ?
ISI were working on the next carcass when funds dried up and you know who I blame for that lol

AMS2 will be great should not mean you can't be underwhelmed

 

[Oldzeb]

+1
Has S397 made new tires ?
ISI were working on the next carcass when funds dried up and you know who I blame for that lol

AMS2 will be great should not mean you can't be underwhelmed

yes there has been a lot of TM update with S397 but not on the whole content unfortunately, I think the total redesign of the interface and the competition system is a huge job that requires a lot of human resources!
for AMS2 verdict in December!! I hope the best!

 

[tr1v1um]

This reply pairs good with the Renato one on Reiza forums:

"I’ll say one thing that pretty much applies equally to AI, physics, audio which I think most agree were some of the strongest points of AMS1... Nothing can be ported over like a copy&paste flick of a switch - some fronts will demand a lot of work, others less. At the same time we would not have made the move if it meant starting any of those fronts from scratch. Most things are ingood shape already and it will only get better."

To be honest I don't understand why people going so hard against PC games specially if those aren't the topic of discussion here. Reiza licensed the Madness engine, not ProjectCars, this means they are going to develop their own product and even if based on the same engine it will be a different beast so comparing them in useless.

I am the first one not putting the PC franchise on top of my favorite titles but also I can recognize it has some good features too and comparing it to AMS2 not only is useless (still to be released and already calling it PC3) but also stupid because as I said same engine but different beast!!!

I think nobody is arguing that PC1 or PC2 are decent racing games with strong and weak points as every sim, but this discussion and the statements by Mr. Bell himself are the perfect example why there is a certain hostility and I would rather call it scepticism. We read so often that PC will have class leading physics and that their "industry-leading" tire model (https://www.projectcarsgame.com/explore/) is ahead of every other sim out there, and yet the developer of that class leading tire model doesn't know how to extract the right results out of that tire model.

If people can't see that there is something fishy, even if you have the perfect example right in front of your eyes, then it makes me wonder how blind people are these days. He doesn't even hide his marketing BS and yet people will fall for it. It didn't take me long to see that cars are more stable in the rain in PC2 with rain tires than they are in the dry with slick tires. To be fair, even if that isn't an engine limitation, then why on earth does the class leading sim dev struggle to get this right? So much about class leading tire models and physics and I can only agree on the people who don't want to see too much involvement by SMS. And how can PC not be part of the discussion here? The engine was tailored towards the requirements of that game after the Shift games. I wish that Reiza can get it right, but there is alot on the line if they get it wrong.

 

[DaVeX↯]

SETA model works good and offers nothing less compared to competitors (really you will be surprised). As said before (and somehow confirmed by Ian Bell some posts ago) PC didn't take full advantage of madness engine and wasn't polished as they want.
So...I can understand people is "worried" about AMS2 development but wouldn't be different if was rF2 engine...maybe even worse from a development point of view...

 

[tr1v1um]

See, there is a difference in what you just did and in what Ian did the last couple of years. There is a big difference in claiming to have an industry-leading tire model and talking about how your sim will blow everything out of the water compared to just saying that the tire model works good - wich it doesn't according to my experience with the 30 hours I spent with the sim. Again, how can a developer produce a class leading tire model, when he doesn't know how to make a car behave like a car in a product that is supposed to be a sim with "true-to-life handling" using that same tire model? Now suddenly they couldn't do it as they wanted? Believe what you want to believe but confirmations by Ian Bell are just nothing but hot air for me at this point.

It all comes down to what I am looking for in a sim. I personaly look for a realistic driving experience, wich all of the competing sim devs managed to do except for SMS one way or another while not making bold claims. And please don't tell be how I should be surprised by the STEA tire model. Do you want to make a bet how often I heard that in the past since that TM is a thing? Better don't try ...

 

[EduCalza]

 

[DaVeX↯]

See, there is a difference in what you just did and in what Ian did the last couple of years. There is a big difference in claiming to have an industry-leading tire model and talking about how your sim will blow everything out of the water compared to just saying that the tire model works good - wich it doesn't according to my experience with the 30 hours I spent with the sim. Again, how can a developer produce a class leading tire model, when he doesn't know how to make a car behave like a car in a product that is supposed to be a sim with "true-to-life handling" using that same tire model? Now suddenly they couldn't do it as they wanted? Believe what you want to believe but confirmations by Ian Bell are just nothing but hot air for me at this point.

It all comes down to what I am looking for in a sim. I personaly look for a realistic driving experience, wich all of the competing sim devs managed to do except for SMS one way or another while not making bold claims. And please don't tell be how I should be surprised by the STEA tire model. Do you want to make a bet how often I heard that in the past since that TM is a thing? Better don't try ...

Ok I will reply with a couple of examples...
Did you know rF2 isn't taking advantage of his engine as it should?
It has a lot of features implemented but not used or still to be finished...
Look at AC graphic engine...Kunos said night and rain are too difficult to implement...some time ago a couple of modders did the trick and optimized engine resources!
So...you can have the best engine overall but not working at full potential (rF2), a capable graphic engine and didn't know how to implement missing features (AC), an overall good engine and not being able to use what you developed as should (Madness)...
All the 3 engines mentioned here are going to be used/improved/optimized...and who is doing that?
External developers!
ISI -> S397
AC -> Modding group
SMS -> Reiza
Surprised uh?

So...we have faith on Reiza, we think they will be able to obtain the best results from a good engine (even better than UE, deal with it) and to be honest I don't see where the problems is...

 

[David Wright]

It all comes down to what I am looking for in a sim. I personaly look for a realistic driving experience, wich all of the competing sim devs managed to do except for SMS one way or another while not making bold claims.

Huh??

From the AC website "our industry-leading physics engine"
From the iRacing website "the world’s premier motorsport racing simulation."
From rF2 website "The World's Most Diverse and Dynamic Racing Simulation"

 

[Lawndart]

This might be what we’ve all been waiting for. A sim with pcars2 graphics renderer but from a studios who’s priority has always been physics... this is one to watch for sure.

 

[RoccoTTS]

Huh??

From the AC website "our industry-leading physics engine"
From the iRacing website "the world’s premier motorsport racing simulation."
From rF2 website "The World's Most Diverse and Dynamic Racing Simulation"

From GT website : "The real driving simulator"

 

[F_B]

Huh??

From the AC website "our industry-leading physics engine"
From the iRacing website "the world’s premier motorsport racing simulation."
From rF2 website "The World's Most Diverse and Dynamic Racing Simulation"

Time for the devs to step up their marketing game:
»The most sophisticated sim in the universe.«

 

[StefanoCasillo]

Surprised uh?

more like mesmerized

 

[tr1v1um]

Ok I will reply with a couple of examples...
Did you know rF2 isn't taking advantage of his engine as it should?
It has a lot of features implemented but not used or still to be finished...
Look at AC graphic engine...Kunos said night and rain are too difficult to implement...some time ago a couple of modders did the trick and optimized engine resources!
So...you can have the best engine overall but not working at full potential (rF2), a capable graphic engine and didn't know how to implement missing features (AC), an overall good engine and not being able to use what you developed as should (Madness)...
All the 3 engines mentioned here are going to be used/improved/optimized...and who is doing that?
External developers!
ISI -> S397
AC -> Modding group
SMS -> Reiza
Surprised uh?

So...we have faith on Reiza, we think they will be able to obtain the best results from a good engine (even better than UE, deal with it) and to be honest I don't see where the problems is...

No idea where you see working rain in AC, but ok. Night racing works in SP though. Other than that you completely missed my point, but so be it. I am not going to explain it a third time. Go ahead and buy the next SMS driven product. Matter of fact is that those mentioned issues you talk about in AC and rF2 have nothing to do with the issues in PC2. But maybe you are looking for other things in a sim first, that's fair enough. I allways thought that the first and most important aspect in car sims is the physics departement, but it seems that all this has shifted.

@David Wright you have a point, I will give your that. But atleast Kunos, ISI/S397 and the rest of the bunch brought something to the table that can be considered a driving sim while somewhat maximizing their effort in relation to their marketing when it comes to producing a driving or racing simulation and not saying afterwards: "Uh, we coudn't do it as we wanted" while blowing into the horn like a maniac. Seems a bit dumb, doesn't it? Have you seen Marcel, Renato or Lord Kunos joining RD claiming that their sim will blow other sims out of the water? They tried to produce full blown sims, SMS didn't or they were not capable to handle their own master class TM wich seems wierd. With SMS it just has been alot of noise for something that I consider a simple racing game next to GT, Forza and Codies F1 games.

 

[Kenny Paton]

Okay we're drifting back onto the have a go at Ian Bell/pCars trail again.
Now I understand that some may have an issue with the choice Reiza have made but I think they will not have just stumbled into it without putting some thought to the process. So let's not use this thread as yet another excuse to bang on about the perceived shortcomings of SMS.

 

[roby13]

more like mesmerized

All the big boys comming to reiza party. We're approaching the realization of the united über-Simulator

 

[Kenny Paton]

To help make my previous point the first part of the AMS2 interview is here.

 

[Deleted member 909406]

error

 

[DaVeX↯]

@tr1v1um since I really understood your point (no need to explain it again really) I am suggesting you to look at AMS2 not as product driven by SMS but by Reiza. They are going to use the SMS engine but doesn't mean the outcome would be the same so don't be worried and wait for it...