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1x tyre wear vs. 2x tyre wear

Discussion in 'Presto GP' started by Nicolai Nicholson, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. This discussion have slightly surprisingly bearly been mentioned. I am unsure if it is because most were pleasently surprised by how the 1xwear turned out and dont mind if it stays that way, or if it because they are waiting for someone else to take initiative.

    My experience with 1x wear from the Istanbul race was positive, although I didn't learn all that I wanted as my race ended at my second pit (out of fuel). Regardless, it did give us a variation in strategies, and even though I have not searched for it, I saw no clear indication that 2 stops was wrong for all that chose it (what do you think Reik?).

    A key point I think is that if everything else is equal, I believe the prefered strategy is 2 stops*. Therefore it makes little sense to make 2 stops quicker than 1 stop if we want to see some variation in strategies. The way it was at Istanbul, with maybe 10 seconds in favor of 1 stop, we saw a great variation in 1 and 2 stops.

    So what is my personal opinion? Based on the Istanbul race I am in favor of 1x wear, as I think that will give us a greater variation in strategies than we had in season 9 (and I like keeping it simple). The only thing that would make me in doubt would be if at Silverstone a 2 stop was much slower relative to at what we learned at Istanbul.

    And on that note I would not like to have a tyre wear customised for the various tracks. I would rather that we make our choice at some point and stick to it. I want the track to naturally determind my strategy without an artificial intrucion of flexible wear :)

    *I believe 2 stop strategy is prefered because:
    -it is more fun/time saving to practice 22 min stint than 33 min stint
    -you get less variation in tyre wear and weight of car (less to learn/perfect)
    -you'll have twice as many brakes from the race where you can drink and stretch your limbs.
    -it allows for a more flexible strategy in the case of the unexpected (weather, damage, etc)
     
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  2. For now i still dont tested a stint but already run with 100L and is hard to do this fast corners, we lost a lot...but have no idea about wear...and at Istanbul dont think about 2stop strategies but who know is better...Well we need to test it and decide what to do for sure. :)
     
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  3. I will happily accept any changes to the Tyre Wear/ Fuel Use multipliers, however, I do believe that X1 Tyre Wear will 'help' to keep the field of drivers, as a whole, more together [closer] for longer.

    A most important part in deciding upon a race strategy.:giggle: Not sure Christian Horner would approve though...:)
     
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  4. Valter Ostman

    Valter Ostman
    PrestoGP Veteran

    The more wear and stops, the more time spent on either cold or warn tires. 2x isn't as safe as 1x wear and longer stints.
    At Silverstone I guess a two stopper will be in favour because of the increased flexibility as Nicolai mentioned.
    I would like the tire wear at 1x.
     
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  5. Sean Greenlaw

    Sean Greenlaw
    PrestoGP Veteran

    I know some people were concerned that about x1 lasting 1st race etc lol i was 1000000% certain 1x was fine and tires wouldnt even brake a sweat. I dont think x1 offers anything to stratagy at all, its 1 stop all the way every track or 30/40 secs slower this is also something for sure.
    I think at x2 people are worried car is undrivable when its not, x2 is just as safe as x1 the grip levels and heating process are the same as x1, its only the rate they wear is different. We would have been able to do the 40 laps at Istanbul with 1 set with 1x before reaching 50% left or hearing warning of wear, with x2 we would get to about lap 20 before 50% or hearing warning, so i think even with x2 wear 1 stop will probably be fastest and only a slight challenge to drive.
    At 1x the weather also makes no difference really, if gets wet pit for wets and go to end even if drys up. I think the temps of track etc dont really affect wear if you can drive around a dry track with wets at crazy temps, they wear just as slow so doesnt make sense. It maybe more to do with driving style like lock ups and wheel spins along with distance travelled that control the wear.
    I did a 15 lap stint on istanbul with 1x and had 83 % left on fronts and 87% on rears so this would mean just over 1 % a lap wear at fronts so nearer 50 laps possible with 1 set before tire wear warning (50%) so not even a challenge at 1x as for as im concerned.
    I never tried to use 1 set full race because i couldnt be bothered practising a 67min stint to confirm to myself they would last.

    As i see it the now with 1x there is very little challenge to driving no need to practise any stints or that just simple check high fuel setups ok done and 1 stop everywhere as id know tires would last for sure when changing them. Im not practising a 67 min stint to see if 1 set will do it, car is also already easier overall to drive than previous car to and also the wet weather is also alot easier so i dont know how much easier we can get but only thing left is adding assits lol.
    I personnally like a bit of a challenge aswell everything else that comes with Presto
     
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  6. Valerio Vinassa

    Valerio Vinassa
    PrestoGP Veteran

    I tested at home with rain and consumption on wet is a bit more high great influence have the wings 2 clic more and car is more stable not so for me with mmg on the other hand we had more choice with tires mmg. All this for say tire wear x1 or x2 Im for x1 because low wear and no choice of tires ss,s,m. I have to change tires at any pits because tires dont run for looong stint or grip tires is very low I cannot choice is put hard tires for long run and than soft so if i cut off the fun for pit and think like driver in rl :) this is not mandatory is a purgatory:roflmao:.Sure a race like Silverstone where rain live:D 2 stop are fun because along race you must choice between your preset and push rigth button and same time drive the car:D and this we do drive like mad, under rain, pushing buttons:O_o: insane:roflmao:. Im back earnest:) we can work around fuel consuption x2 or x3( I never tested) or like say Sean in some thread tire x3 here have a sense n° ? of pits.I spoke with mine driver skill ;)
     
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  7. I think the F3000 the really negative point is to be a "Original Mod" from the game and haven't very types of tyres like MMG...in this point the MMG is so much better, and allows more strategys and more tyre choose and a different experience in my point of view, our "problem" is it, if we have super softs and softs etc for sure we can run with x1 and i think the strategys would be well played... So if x2 in F3000 is more balanced between 1 and 2 stop strategys so let's go for it... :)
     
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  8. Here is my thinking, from a very objective point of view as i dont participate in official races.

    My personal favourite type is 1x wear cos i dont like loosing too much grip, i do too many mistakes, but that is my problem.

    I really think 2x wear would make your races more exciting, and by the amount of talent Presto is showing, adding some spice can only make things better i think!. Going only 1 stop "could" work if the driver is gentle enough on slip tyres. But chances of mistakes will be higher, compare to those who choose 2 stops. When i ran 15 laps on 2x wear tyres was about 50%, add to that the extra fuel weight for only 1 stop (100L compare to 67L), i think both strategy do have a chance at the win.... but i might be wrong, its just my impression.

    On the other side, if you want the best track driver to win the race, 1x is the choice. Cos 2x will required more than fast lap times, but also fast thinking and fast pitting + adjusting to the race weather or traffic.

    Make it easy for everyone = 1x wear (those who have less time practice may like it better)
    Make it a challenge = 2x all the way.

    Steeve
     
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  9. Vote?

    I am one who does not do much practice at all [that's my challenge;)], so perhaps I shouldn't voice an opinion...
     
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  10. I did 2 stop strategy at Istanbul because i like to enjoy my race and go full racing instead of cruising around with a heavy car and for the whole race i have to keep thinking of managing tires, fuel etc...

    I will keep doing 2 stops unless it shows that it is a losing strategy then i might be forced to start doing like the rest and opt for a 1 strategy.

    At the moment with 1x wear it is like we have the only option of running hard tires , if we go with 2x wear it will be like removing the hards and putting the mediums instead and because we can only have one tire option let’s not make it too complicated and forget about 1x and 2x comparison etc.. and instead we look at it this way : do we like to race with hard tires this season that last the entire race or we remove the hards and we race with medium tires that does not last the entire race and opens more strategy options for races ?

    I will go for medium tires.
     
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  11. Could we arrange test race(s), where we test x2 tyre wear with lots of PrestoGP drivers, before making decision on this matter? Before this kind of test race, I support staying with x1 tyre wear. My opinion can be changed though, if I see that in a race situation competition will be better with x2 tyre wear. However, personally I like cars being heavy in the race, because it multiplies costs that driving errors have, and puts emphasis on driving skills. Also, I think in the same package with tyre wear, we should consider, if fixing race length would make competition better, as I see no reason why race should be exactly 67 minutes.
     
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  12. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    I tell you I didn't do any research to come to the conclusion that 2 stops is better for me. I just did a few laps with fuel for a one stopper and quickly felt bad with the car, so I knew I would make big mistakes. With the fuel amount for a 2-stopper I felt better and considering my bad grid position, I went for a 2 stopper. I managed to get from 10th to 5th so I guess it worked for me. ;)

    In general I asume that even with no tyre wear at all it could make sence to make a 2 stopper because the gained time due to driving a lighter car could make it worth having an extra stop.

    I find it interesting that a few drivers further down the grid could choose a 2-stop-strategy to be able to make more overtakes and therefore would challenge the quicker guys at the front who make a common 1-stop-strategy. This again could mean that a front runner on a 2-stopper would gain even more time, because a front runner on a 1-stopper could loose extra time by fighting with lighter midfield drivers who choose a 2-stopper.

    My point is that in theory you can calculate that a 1-stopper might be for example 10 seconds quicker through the whole race but in real life there could happen much more things to make you loose this advantage. That's why I won't automatically choose the option, which is best in theory.

    So considering the impact of different weights due to different fuel amounts I think the tyre wear isn't that important anymore. But I could be wrong on this matter. ;)
     
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  13. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    From the start of the practice session until the finish of the race there's a time frame which wasn't changed for a very, very long time. A few seasons ago we agreed that we want the F1 races a bit longer to give more room for different strategies. To gain some extra time for the race, we changed from a common qualy session to the shorter super pole format. That's why the race length could get extended to 67 minutes without changing the whole duration of the event.

    I still think that this is a good format and is a good challenge to drive the F3000 well over 67 minutes.
     
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  14. I am not too concernd how long the tyres last, I am thinking more of how much slower they get with wear. And the same with the fuel. The fact that Reik had the fastest lap in the race, more than 0,4 faster than Dino and 0,5 faster than Marko, 0,8 faster than Helder (3 fastest in race), could be an indication that the wear after 22 minutes is more than 0,5 sec faster than the wear after 33 minutes, In addition comes the lower average weight.

    I want the same as Sean, namely to most of all not get stuck in 10x1 stop. I am guessing 2x wear could give us the same variation, or possibly more, or possibly less (iow I have no idea if 2x is better than 1x strategy wise). But I do not share his sentiment where he wants the car to be more difficult to control towards end of stints. I have more than enough to try to close some of the redicolus 2,3 second gap to the faster guys, I am already practicing more than I am used to.

    Why dont somebody skilled/consistant do one 22 min stint and 1 33 min stint, and from that and the info on pit-stop time, we can calculate roughly the difference (assuming both stints are done with consistant driving).

    ps: in real f1 they get faster and faster the lighter they get, and usually do best lap at the end of the race. With f3000 1xwear we have the same. With the mmg we got slower towards the end of the stint. I have not tried 2xwear :)
     
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  15. when i try 2x wear, i was slower and slower after maybe 7-8 laps to the end. that was for 15 laps run.
     
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  16. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    Looking at the frequently crowded server(s) proves that you're not the only one. ;)

    It's cool that so many guys show their commitment by practising to get used to the new car. (even if it's sometimes more time they'd usualy taken if we had stayed with the F1) :thumbsup:
     
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  17. Oh that is awesome :thumbsup: , for me it is like I am driving in the wilderness for most of time when I am on the server .:geek: ..
     
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  18. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    Only thing you could do then is moving to the other hemisphere I guess. ;)
     
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  19. Valter Ostman

    Valter Ostman
    PrestoGP Veteran

    I've been occupied elsewhere from Friday morning to Sunday night and haven't read all about tire wear. I'm ok with any wear multiple. It will be the same for all. From what little I've read both 1 and 2 stops can work in the current tire wear situation. I did a one stopper.

    Our main challenge will still be the same. It's obviously to try to beat the drivers who are near your level of performance. That will never be an easy task for any of us, whatever tire wear we choose. Still it will surely be fun to try. Even on worn tires.
     
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  20. I am only passionate about getting facts on the table so that people know what they can chose from, as I assume 1x and 2x wear is not a goal in itself. I don't mind what we chose, I'll be happy anyway. If those who have strong desires about this find out what they want and write in the drivers meeting thread what it will be, I'll open the server accordingly.

    I'll spend the rest of my "spare-race-time" on the track :thumbsup:
     
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