Straight4 Aims for "Special" Single Player, Community Involvement

63fa71a7300f0c9e4e8d8e56_Straight4 Open Graph Image-p-1080.jpg
Back in May, Straight4 Studios turned heads when they announced a cooperation with Reiza Studios for their upcoming sim with the working title GTR Revival. The team around Ian Bell of GTR and Project CARS fame now gave more insight into what is to come in their title and confirmed not only a "special" single-player experience.

Image credit: Straight4 Studios

Having gotten the core of the GTR and GTR2 team back together, Straight4's work has been steadily progressing from the info the studio has made available. The project garnered much attention specifically for its patented implementation of AI commentary and race engineers, skipping pre-recorded lines in favor of having them generated on the fly and then read aloud by AI-controlled commentators.

This AI focus might also lift the sim to a new level for single-player racers: According to the Straight4's June newsletter, Game Design Director Austin Ogonoski has created "a concept of how the sim's AI base can boost our single-player experience." This has already been implemented in a test mule, and Straight4 promises that "if you're into single-player, we have something a little special for you." More patience is needed to find out what exactly is meant by this.


More Community Involvement​

Meanwhile, Straight4 aims to increase the involvement of the community: After having relied on community feedback for content in the past, the studio now wants to know how they should handle the implementation of assists, hosting a survey on this question for sim racers to take part in.

The project will also see a program to have the community involved even more to determine the direction of the sim, much like in the Project CARS days (remember, the CARS part used to stand for "Community Assisted Racing Simulator). It featured different tiers of backing that users could buy into, granting them perks and input on development depending on what tier they chose - and a share of the first three years of sales profits the title generated. Straight4 expects to have more information on timing and builds for this program by the fall.

Your Thoughts​

Do you think the Project CARS-like approach to community involvement is a good call by Straight4? What do you think they might have up their sleeves for the single-player mode? Let us know in the comments below!
About author
Yannik Haustein
Lifelong motorsport enthusiast and sim racing aficionado, walking racing history encyclopedia.

Sim racing editor, streamer and one half of the SimRacing Buddies podcast (warning, German!).

Heel & Toe Gang 4 life :D

Comments

OverTake
Premium
Deleted a bunch of comments due to them containing personal attacks and/or having absolutely nothing to do with the article topic.

Please stay on topic and be kind to each other so we can have a healthy discussion here.
 
He’s clearly not a native English speaker.

Nevertheless, I’m sure his English is a darn sight better than your command of other languages.

If you’re going to criticise his opinions, fine. Don’t make this an unwelcome place for people who care about this niche hobby.
 
If anybody owes anything to someone, is Reiza to Ian Bell. If he hadn't reached out and offer a deal for the madness engine, Reiza would right now be pulling it's hair to try to sell content for rf2, or still trying to modernize the AMS1 engine (i wouldn't complain about the later one). Instead, they have now a leading game engine that allows them to sell all the DLC that keeps them in business.

Modernising something that worked over completely overhauling something that doesn't...

Ian Bell didn't do them any favours and sold them a broken engine... Given the amount of effort that their improvements to the Madness engine has taken, what Reiza could of achieved with the older engine could well have been beyond where they are on the madness engine... Even at AMS1 levels it would have had them selling more DLC... Because at least it could be used offline or online as intended, especially the endurance content...

It's not like being on an old engine has hampered iRacing or AC these past few years whilst AMS2 sits at the bottom of the player counts...
 
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Modernising something that worked over completely overhauling something that doesn't...

Ian Bell didn't do them any favours and sold them a broken engine... Given the amount of effort that their improvements to the Madness engine has taken, what Reiza could of achieved with the older engine could well have been beyond where they are on the madness engine... Even at AMS1 levels it would have had them selling more DLC... Because at least it could be used offline or online as intended, especially the endurance content...

It's not like being on an old engine has hampered iRacing or AC these past few years whilst AMS2 sits at the bottom of the player counts...
It's becoming an urban myth that moving to Madness engine was the worst thing Reiza could ever do and it's trying to be justified by AMS2 player counts. Have you ever seen the player counts of AMS1? Its historical peaks? AMS1 was the simulation everybody praised but nobody played. Heck, nobody outside some leagues I can count with my fingers still do.

Reputation and actual numbers are two different things. Simracers are not as hardcore and loyal as how they picture themselves.
 
It's becoming an urban myth that moving to Madness engine was the worst thing Reiza could ever do and it's trying to be justified by AMS2 player counts. Have you ever seen the player counts of AMS1? Its historical peaks? AMS1 was the simulation everybody praised but nobody played. Heck, nobody outside some leagues I can count with my fingers still do.

Reputation and actual numbers are two different things. Simracers are not as hardcore and loyal as how they picture themselves.

And yet there's still plenty of mod work coming for it... Including work from some of the best to ever mod on that engine... As well as leagues still devoted to it...

It's never had the peaks that it deserves, but just going by what the community achieved with AC and what Reiza have achieved by improving the Madness engine to what they have now... They could of poured their efforts into a new tyre model and track surface like they have to do anyway with the madness engine...

Without having to overhaul the drivetrain, damage, MP, AI and the other major bugs that hamper the Madness engine... And spent that time making the old engine look good on DX12...
 
Great sounds like Ian Bell hasn't learned much from the mess that is the Madness engine...

I won't take anything that marketing tool produces seriously... The pCARS series is a perfect illustration of when everything goes wrong in development and only gets praise because it had content and loads of it... Content is meaningless to me if the physics are broken and the on track experience with other cars is terrible...

So many short cuts were taken that the team sold the engine off to other parties rather than fix the mess...

And even with the work Reiza have done on the Madness engine it's still a mess... Reiza have cleaned up the physics to the point where the Madness engine can be taken seriously... But only hotlapping by yourself...

The track conditions are the biggest issue online with them varying for online events even in the races... Drying lines for some with some corners being dry from white line to white line whilst the rest of the grid has a soaked track...

And that's including the massive warps seen on international dedicated servers that make leaving space a hurdle as you can't really tell if the other car will warp into your line or not... So a car's width is usually not enough, but that's no where near as big of a problem as inconsistent track conditions which make getting too serious about the racing a waste of time...

Then there's the AI which doesn't even have fuel weights on top of the different driveline, tyres and damage physics... So you can really only enjoy short sprint races with them or turn fuel use, tyre wear and damage off to have a longer race...

Straight 4 studios owe Reiza a lot of help to get AMS2 up to the standards of sim racing set in 2011 before they even bother with a new engine for a new title...
Thank you for summarization of the complete mess around Madness Engine. Save me typing.
 
And yet there's still plenty of mod work coming for it... Including work from some of the best to ever mod on that engine... As well as leagues still devoted to it...

It's never had the peaks that it deserves, but just going by what the community achieved with AC and what Reiza have achieved by improving the Madness engine to what they have now... They could of poured their efforts into a new tyre model and track surface like they have to do anyway with the madness engine...

Without having to overhaul the drivetrain, damage, MP, AI and the other major bugs that hamper the Madness engine... And spent that time making the old engine look good on DX12...
Than why raceroom haven't improved the graphics on their old engine then? why do they still have no dynamic weather or time progression?

I don't think nether of the choicer was gonna be easier
 
Years ago, Austin (now Straight4's Game Design Director) had a video on his YouTube channel discussing his ideal sim racing single player mode. From what I remember (it's been a while!) it involved a limited number of racing series and cars, but with deep progression to the gameplay, including extensive options to upgrade your car. I believe the video is private now, but I really hope some of that creativity and imagination can make it into GTR Revival's single player.

Austin also knows his s*** about the existing issues and limitations of current-gen and past-gen sim racing AI. See for example his videos embedded on this page. With him as a part of the GTR Revival team, I think we have as good a chance as we'll ever have to get a meaningful leap in sim racing AI behaviour.

AI is also a f***ng hard problem, for sooo many reasons. So we'll have to be patient, not overdose on the marketing hype, and see the actual concrete gameplay that emerges from what Straight4 creates.
 
It's becoming an urban myth that moving to Madness engine was the worst thing Reiza could ever do and it's trying to be justified by AMS2 player counts. Have you ever seen the player counts of AMS1? Its historical peaks? AMS1 was the simulation everybody praised but nobody played. Heck, nobody outside some leagues I can count with my fingers still do.

Reputation and actual numbers are two different things. Simracers are not as hardcore and loyal as how they picture themselves.
I think it goes two ways: Reiza inherited an engine with great potential but with a lot of unfinished business in it.
As Renato said, it was a great opportunity with a lot more room for development than what they had their hands on.
From financial and players count point of view AMS2 has been a success from Reiza perspective: the players count from AMS1 has gone up significantly and from the reputational standpoint it placed heavily Reiza on the map now.
When we look at players counts we also need to consider how much marketing the developers have done (just think about how much Kunos, iracing and MSG have invested in stremers, influencers, real life drivers and esports events all of which have costs and provide huge visibility) and how prominent is the MP side of things.
In both cases Reiza with AMS2 is almost at ground zero for a variety of very good reasons in their eyes.
What is undeniable is how good the sim has become compared to where PC2 left it (v1.5 will no doubt be another leap forward) with still a lot of room for improvement in MP side and AI/career side of the game which hopefully in the near future will support services as LFM and even endurance races. But everyone can see the bits coming together step after step.
It will still take a while, lots of things still to improve in general in the sim, but the potential, the talent and the persistency are all there.
S4 has not yet explained what their plan is in details, but undoubtedly teaming up with a good bunch of talented people like Reiza may indeed yield some dividends considered the experience they are maturing on Madness Engine.
 
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And yet there's still plenty of mod work coming for it... Including work from some of the best to ever mod on that engine... As well as leagues still devoted to it...

It's never had the peaks that it deserves, but just going by what the community achieved with AC and what Reiza have achieved by improving the Madness engine to what they have now... They could of poured their efforts into a new tyre model and track surface like they have to do anyway with the madness engine...

Without having to overhaul the drivetrain, damage, MP, AI and the other major bugs that hamper the Madness engine... And spent that time making the old engine look good on DX12...
Agreed on AMS1 not having the amount of players it deserves. But AMS2 having higher counts shows an uncomfortable truth: shiny graphics matter.

With Madness, Reiza got hold of a complex weather system, Livetrack, graphics, VR support, etc. That they did not have to develop from scratch to implement into gMotor; AMS2 would probably not be out nowadays if they had to follow that route, and may not even be viable to develop, either due to technical or financial constraints.

I don't think there was an easy way forward for Reiza. Unreal Engine is not the path for every dev, and rFactor2 has its own set of complexities that S397 is very slowly getting around of, and may not be easy to license and get technical support, as the guys who coded the engine are out fishing.
 
Agreed on AMS1 not having the amount of players it deserves. But AMS2 having higher counts shows an uncomfortable truth: shiny graphics matter.

With Madness, Reiza got hold of a complex weather system, Livetrack, graphics, VR support, etc. That they did not have to develop from scratch to implement into gMotor; AMS2 would probably not be out nowadays if they had to follow that route, and may not even be viable to develop, either due to technical or financial constraints.

I don't think there was an easy way forward for Reiza. Unreal Engine is not the path for every dev, and rFactor2 has its own set of complexities that S397 is very slowly getting around of, and may not be easy to license and get technical support, as the guys who coded the engine are out fishing.
Thats the thing, people who think they would be so confortable right now if they didnt had the madness engine are ignoring the elefant in the room.

Those types of features took serious investment to implement. With all due respect, putting some cars in game and playing around with the content and a few details here and there like FFB is peanuts compared to the manpower and resources that were necessary to create all the madness engine features.
 
I think it goes two ways: Reiza inherited an engine with great potential but with a lot of unfinished business in it.
As Renato said, it was a great opportunity with a lot more room for development than what they had their hands on.
From financial and players count point of view AMS2 has been a success from Reiza perspective: the players count from AMS1 has gone up significantly and from the reputational standpoint it placed heavily Reiza on the map now.
When we look at players counts we also need to consider how much marketing the developers have done (just think about how much Kunos, iracing and MSG have invested in stremers, influencers, real life drivers and esports events all of which have costs and provide huge visibility) and how prominent is the MP side of things.
In both cases Reiza with AMS2 is almost at ground zero for a variety of very good reasons in their eyes.
What is undeniable is how good the sim has become compared to where PC2 left it (v1.5 will no doubt be another leap forward) with still a lot of room for improvement in MP side and AI/career side of the game which hopefully in the near future will support services as LFM and even endurance races. But everyone can see the bits coming together step after step.
It will still take a while, lots of things still to improve in general in the sim, but the potential, the talent and the persistency are all there.
S4 has not yet explained what their plan is in details, but undoubtedly teaming up with a good bunch of talented people like Reiza may indeed yield some dividends considered the experience they are maturing on Madness Engine.
Agreed on all regards. It was not ideal but it was a path to move forward, which Reiza has done. Perhaps not as much as we would like (both in terms of what the product is and how many people play it) but it's something and it's still moving.
 
Thats the thing, people who think they would be so confortable right now if they didnt had the madness engine are ignoring the elefant in the room.

Those types of features took serious investment to implement. With all due respect, putting some cars in game and playing around with the content and a few details here and there like FFB is peanuts compared to the manpower and resources that were necessary to create all the madness engine features.
Putting cars into Madness Engine is not the only thing Reiza has been doing though. Obviously starting a new engine from scratch requires years of development (see AC2, RS etc.) and once you are done you still have years of teething issues. That is why it is done very seldom and in many cases it still started capitalizing on something existing (Madness Engine is no exception with the roots it has in other engines)
And these are exactly the reasons why RR, RF2, iracing etc are sticking with their old machinery despite the obvious disadvantages.
So credit to SMS for starting the process, but also shame on them for jumping ship with so much unfinished business.
And credit to Reiza for believing in transforming a raw diamond into a finished one no matter how long it will take.
 
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Putting cars into Madness Engine is not the only thing Reiza has been doing though. Obviously starting a new engine from scratch requires years of development (see AC2, RS etc.) and once you are done you still have years of teething issues. That is why it is done very seldom and in many cases it still started capitalizing on something existing (Madness Engine is no exception with the roots it has in other engines)
And these are exactly the reasons why RR, RF2, iracing etc are sticking with their old machinery despite the obvious disadvantages.
So credit to SMS for starting the process, but also shame on them for jumping ship with so much unfinished business.
And credit to Reiza for believing in transforming a raw diamond into a finished one no matter how long it will take.
They didnt jump ship. They were bought out. Just like Kunos was. Just like S397 was. I am sure Reiza and Renato would love someone with a big fat check knocking on his door too.
 
Agreed on AMS1 not having the amount of players it deserves. But AMS2 having higher counts shows an uncomfortable truth: shiny graphics matter.

With Madness, Reiza got hold of a complex weather system, Livetrack, graphics, VR support, etc. That they did not have to develop from scratch to implement into gMotor; AMS2 would probably not be out nowadays if they had to follow that route, and may not even be viable to develop, either due to technical or financial constraints.

I don't think there was an easy way forward for Reiza. Unreal Engine is not the path for every dev, and rFactor2 has its own set of complexities that S397 is very slowly getting around of, and may not be easy to license and get technical support, as the guys who coded the engine are out fishing.

I agree there wasn't an easy way forwards...

But given how many of the basics are just plain broken compared to AMS1... Including the weather system, live track and VR which are broken in their current state... There are just as many drop outs from online events from a VR problem as there are net code issues...

AMS2 would exist on the gMotor engine, it wouldn't of been held back to implement such features if they didn't hold AMS2 back on the Madness engine with all of these bugs then AMS2 as a gMotor title would of gone ahead even without DX12 graphics, a new live track system or VR...

And would of never suffered the content delays that they've gone through with the season pass...

Making shiny graphics wouldn't of taken that long if the community can make AC look better than AMS2 with the right settings and mods...

Best reason to have gone down that route was that the online and offline gameplay would of worked straight out of the box... Instead of being stuck in the position it is where we are a few years away from a re-write of the MP code and the AI having fuel weights, similar tyre wear and grip and damage that is on par with the player car...
 
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They didnt jump ship. They were bought out. Just like Kunos was. Just like S397 was. I am sure Reiza and Renato would love someone with a big fat check knocking on his door too.
I'm sure the financials had a role and that makes sense, but the bottom line is they ended up jumping ship and leaving the mission half way through. Sometimes the fast money isn't the best way forward when you think long term, which they probably didn't.
 

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