The Other Side of iRacing...

It seems for every few good words said about iRacing, there are many awful horror stories about the way members are treated by staff and administration. The more friends I'd make in the community, the more I'd hear, and it became genuinely upsetting to know that a great platform for competitive online racing was tarnished by incompetent moderators and a definite agenda in the upper ranks.

I was hoping never to experience this "side" of iRacing as my experience with it has been mostly positive until a few months ago when the game switched primarily to a NASCAR sim, but only recently did I finally have a less than stellar run-in with the Admins.

I am known for running more "alternative" custom paint schemes on iRacing, as I would rather run a bright pink car than a real-world scheme to associate myself as a fan of a certain driver. HOWEVER, before I began my foray into painting, I contacted the head of the custom schemes department and asked for the exact guidelines as to what is allowed on custom schemes. He assured me that almost anything goes aside from blatantly racist or homophobic cars, and that iRacing can't ban you for a custom paint scheme because everyone has different standards when it comes to offensive content.

I always stay well within the guidelines.

So, for the new Nascar iRacing Series, I worked out a deal with an Xbox Live buddy to have her online persona advertised on my Chevy SS. I put over 2000 miles on the car over the course of two weeks, running in front of high ranking drivers and staff members. Not once, was anything said about my paint scheme even being remotely "offensive", because it was nothing more than a Leopard Print car with links to the social media accounts of my Xbox Live buddy.

I ended up having a successful first race weekend in the Nascar iRacing series, posting two top fives, leading almost half of one race, and actually WINNING another race against none other than Ray Alfalla and several other DWC drivers, although a couple times I was warned by a good friend "don't race him too hard." I laughed; this isn't real Nascar, it's a video game.

On Monday, my iRacing account had been suspended for 60 days, for violation of the "custom paint scheme" policy. iRacing lets you appeal this sort of thing, so here were the main points I made.

- It's a legit advertisement and no way is any part of the scheme intended to "harrass" other members or be a display of senseless vulgarity
- I put over 2000 miles on the car, and was not informed there was even an issue until EIGHT MINUTES AFTER my account was deactivated, despite competing against the same users for over two weeks
- A facebook post by a prolific iRacing member clearly shows users ganging up to protest me despite not actually being offended by the car, which I provided evidence of
- Other users, including high ranked and high profile users, have run much more "vulgar" schemes with zero repercussions, some of which are still in use over a year later
- I was told by the head of the custom paint scheme department that there was no issue with any of my cars
- I was told by the head of the custom paint scheme department that iRacing can't ban you for a custom paint scheme because each user has different standards when it comes to offensive content
- I was told by the head of the custom paint scheme department that if a user is so gravely offended by a custom paint scheme, there is a user-friendly block button to avoid seeing any of that user's schemes
- Any custom scheme featuring logos the user does not own the rights to (example: any replica scheme) is in violation of the custom scheme policy and that user can be subjected to a ban

I was given a one sentence response:
Our policy regarding custom paints is pretty clear and other peoples alleged violations doesn't justify yours or relieve you of being held accountable for your personal actions.

After talking with several iRacing friends over facebook, they began to inform me of the "other side" of iRacing, one hindered by politics, agendas, and cliques. One very high ranked member in particular stated over and over again that "black stripe" drivers often band together and protest anyone who is seen as a legitimate threat to their "exclusive club." Another mentioned a situation where an entire group of road racers were threatened with lifetime bans for a comment one user made during a live broadcast that wasn't even derogatory (think Denny Hamlin).Another high profile user was suspended for a week for failing to merge properly when coming out of the pits during a practice session. A relatively unknown user was given a two week suspension when his wheel mount snapped and he uncontrollably spun into another car, even after providing iRacing said pictures of his broken wheel. Some users are given full account refunds for simply complaining to the right person, while others are told that iRacing "doesn't give out refunds." One members parents PAID the admins not to have their child banned or suspended. This is after maybe half a day of talking to a few different people over Xbox and Teamspeak.

This is on top of the insanely misguided development cycle that focuses primarily on NASCAR content, scheduling car and track combinations that would never occur in the real world (IndyCars at Talladega), releasing new content while ignoring basic flaws in the tire model that make several cars completely unstable and horrible to drive (even compared to amateur rFactor mods), providing default setups created by drivers who are 4-5 seconds off pace, making aero adjustments to primarily suit 3 out of the 31 cars in the game, and implementing touch screen driving controls instead of sorting out netcode problems that have ruined many races for the better part of a year.

The Lotus 49 isn't coming out for a long while, either. You're better off re-installing Grand Prix Legends.

I'm posting this here because iRacing promotes themselves as a "world-class racing simulation" and costs several times more than what most people are willing to payto drive pretend cars on the computer.The average consumer deserves to know the downfalls before dropping $100 per year, plus $200 on average to race in a few series every week.

We're talking about a company that, seven years ago, tried to sue its own fanbase because they were worried that free community mods would be of a better quality than the retail game and would take away potential sales.
 
Thats not true. The Ford GT e.g. has been in constant development since its release and is now one of the better cars on the service.

The things that I like about iRacing (in order of importance)
1. Arrive and drive
2. Good community
3. Good physics
4. Improving graphics
5. No fiddling with mods and compability issues to drive online against others

I just don't like when people start spreading things around that are not true just so others wouldn't play the game they dislike...

Ford GT is ok but it took almost 2 years to get it to a state that is still not even close to what the real thing would drive like.

regarding importance-

1. Physics including tire
2. Arrive and Drive or atleast a viable community with availible races nightly
3. Dynamic Track
4. Graphics

Regarding dislike-

Nobody is out to get iRacing closed down. That would result in alot of people with $1000 wasted.
 
Nice to see Mr. Elwood and Mr. Hann now serving one month suspensions as well. Two great guys given the banhammer for wrecking a guy who has been a complete nuisance for the better part of a year.

Really bizarre to see how the admins work over there. Problematic users run rampant, but any attempt to "put them in their place" on track results in an instant suspension. Not the kind of experience you want to be paying upwards of $500 for...
 
4 Year Member Here And Wont Be Renewing In May. It Was Fun For A While But With All The Beyter Cheaper Sims Out There, Im Over Iracing Now. All That Money Spent And Id Rather Drive The Rfactor 2 370Z Around Vlm sebring. I Log Into Iracing Once A Week, Try To Drive Star Mazda Or Something Else, Spin For No Reason, And Exit Out. Glad My Sub Runs Out In A Month :) Really Feeling Like A Tool For Buying All The Content :(
 
I have been a member since July 2010 and I agree with the comments at NG (and some here) in regards to rude behaviour and intentional wrecking. The situation is not as serious as that of public servers in LFS/GSC or GTR2, but for a paid-to-drive sim iRacing still cannot avoid bad drivers (the talentless and the get-out-of-my-way-or-else types).

And unlike what the usual loud crowd professes, the problems are not circumscribed to rookies or D-class. It is pervasive to all classes (not so much in A and Pro), the only way to avoid all this is to enrol in leagues - it's harder to be rude or a bad competitor when you "know" the guys/gals you race with.

Ovals wise, too often races turn into a demolition derby in the lower classes (rookies, D and C), so the best option is to "graduate" to a higher class and enrol in leagues.
 
Yow all.

I was lurking for few month's on this forum, but after seeing this topic.I had to register.

I have to agree with main topic poster.

I am a European and i like to race Oval and Road races. At oval i was more or less being wrecked and/or totally destroyed so i couldn't race on.

I'm not rich person in real life at all, but i like to race hard and clean as possible. This is unlucky in iRacing not possible.

Road racing: Not even once another player went into me and crashed me on purpose.
Oval racing: Every 2nd. race some one wanted to bump into the wall, because i was not American or so ?

American favoritism vs Europeans (i guess):

I was in live broadcast nascar event (43 cars on grid). The dude started insulting me as "alien" stupid Euro **** etc... Because i was faster then him (didn't wrecked or touched other car/s once). He was not banned, nothing. Today he still races on. I could go on with such problems, but ill stop here.

I donno what to do anymore or what to race. Tried rfactor2 and it puted me totaly off (modified rfactor a bit in my opinion). It's true i can control and "grab" the car when he looses the control while at iRacing this is imposable.

(Another thing which i would like to clear out. Rf2 you can control the car while sniping out, loosing control, crashing out etc... iRacing you can't do nothing like that. You make a mistake, your done).

Asseto Corsa is way off development.

This is my post on one of the forums which i posted and it has currently more then 1k+ views.

I donno, i donno really.

I become a really good driver and all that crap. I can run daytona 500 as a pro. yet other people destroy my irating for a joke. I barely bringed my irating to 1.3k at nascar and know its at 7xx.

I am ****ing fed up with idiots and i donno what to do anymore. Should i wait for AC ? Because i can't stand anymore this crap. Honestly i can't

There is extreme and i mean extreme elitism at iRacing. I donno where to turn to really learn setups, neither i can gain any friends to atleast race with them....

I wanna race, race clean and good. But it seems that is not an option. Gaining irating it not even a question. All those "nooby" advice "avoid and try to not wreck" are irrelevant, because everybody will **** you up at race.


I hope some of you players can share some feedback, because my hope of driving is fainting extremely fast.


I am at iRacing more then 1 year, got A licence at Oval and C at road racing. If you guys have any suggestion for some beter racing game im all ears.

Edit: I will not give out my real name at iRacing, because im not interested in being banned, insulted, harassed or called other crap.
 
I think what's being offered up here is a rather biased, one sided view of iRacing. I find it quite laughable, in light of this thread, that you were allowed to post a iRacing review that's meant to be unbiased (or perhaps it's not?). Until you present some evidence, most of this is heresy, it may well be true, but it's rather unsubstantiated. A lot of rumours are banded around forums. Indeed, I've had experiences, and know of events, which rival, if not surpass what you describe that have occurred within rFactor and GTR2 leagues hosted by some of the largest, and supposedly, most respect sim racing communities around. If you want to find something bad, you only have to look.

I'd also have to taken contention with you simply pushing road racing aside in iRacing, but then it's not surprising from someone who predominantly races oval. The whole slow speed spin issue is nonsense, if you actually know what you are doing. However, there are a few cars that fall someway short of what should be expected. Others, like the FGT, Corvette, V8SC, Indycar and the Riley, for example, offer physics which match or surpass anything else available (particularly the V8SC and the Ford). I'm not saying it's perfect, far from it, the tyre model, for one, leaves a lot to be desired.

(Another thing which i would like to clear out. Rf2 you can control the car while sniping out, loosing control, crashing out etc... iRacing you can't do nothing like that. You make a mistake, your done).
I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. If you aren't able to control the car when its sliding in iRacing, it has more to do with your ability than the sim. Most of the mods hailed by the rFactor community, like the Enduracers mod (which is a fantastic mod) have more dramatic low speed spinning problems that iRacing has ever had. That being said, I've never had a problem with low speed spins in that mod either.

Onto the clique issue, I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but people need to understand that this isn't a uniform issue. However, it is an issue which appears far more prevalent on the oval side of iRacing. The oval black stripe attitude, on track and in the forums is pathetic, there really isn't another way to describe it. But again, the clique issue is not unique to iRacing, it exists in almost every rFactor league I've been involved with, TPS and FSR would be too shinning examples. I think you'll find that at the top level of any sim racing leagues/sims there develops a cliquey element.

Back to iRacing, however, it is an issue that appears almost unique to the oval side of iRacing. The behaviour of the road racers in iRacing is markedly better than that of the oval racers. And whilst things can get heated, I've never witnessed a road racer argument degenerate itself to the levels that oval racers frequently frequent.

That being said, in three years I've never witnessed any of the scenarios described, whilst that may be because I don't race ovals often enough to be exposed to this nonsense, I still don't believe that people should be driven away from what appears to be a relative minority of bereaved members.

I'd like to make it clear, that I'm not denying that this events occurred, simply suggesting that it is not unique to iRacing. The issue that iRacing faces, as a result of its high public profile, is that it exposes itself more to these accusations, and these events are more easily exposed as a result.

I should add, before I'm attacked, that I'm not an iRacing fan boy. I race iRacing and rFactor equally, I can find faults and enjoyment in both.
 
I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. If you aren't able to control the car when its sliding in iRacing, it has more to do with your ability than the sim. Most of the mods hailed by the rFactor community, like the Enduracers mod (which is a fantastic mod) have more dramatic low speed spinning problems that iRacing has ever had. That being said, I've never had a problem with low speed spins in that mod either.

Untrue.

There are problems with grip estimation, they were acknowledged last year and they were acknowledged after the NTM was released - and according to someone close to them, devs are aware.Whether this comes from temperature generation/management, or pressure problems or some issue with elements at the level of the contact patch, is not important here.

You mistakenly believe catching a slide with your "skill" is significant, it is not - if you use the same movements RL pro drivers use you will not catch a slide. At least 2 RL pro drivers posted their impressions on the GT cars in the official iR forums and what they said was quite clear on this issue (fanboys as usual tried to pin their complaints on the lack of "seat of the pants" sensations or possible lack of experience with sims, which was easily contradicted by them).

As for rFactor mods...Enduracers (which you qualify as "fantastic") is admittedly made on feel. I bet you haven't taken a look at the physics files they use (hence your "fantastic mod", or maybe that's because you read/hear from others) - some of the figures used have little to do with reality (contrary to what ISI advised us to do), they're the result of matching behaviour to a set of impressions by a mix of beta-testers and RL drivers. Some cars snap their back ends too easily at the slightest hint of weight transfer - curiously, just like iRacing.

Other mods...You are comparing work by amateur modders or people who have real jobs during the day with the creation of a team of developers (Dave's core team) who's been at this for years. Given the hype, the investment, and the claims, iRacing should be nothing short of the best simulation physics there is, when time and again people have proven this not to be the case (I also bet you never perused through the threads on telemetry and what we tried to convey to Dave K. back then).



And whilst things can get heated, I've never witnessed a road racer argument degenerate itself to the levels that oval racers frequently frequent.

I have. More than once. Threats to send this or that replay to FIRST due to reiterated bad behaviour on both training sessions and races are not uncommon.

Of course you will say no. Those who have seen this (there are threads - or there were - on official forums, I have seen similar threads on SimHq, here and many, many threads on driver behaviour at NG) are just "lying", right?



I'd like to make it clear, that I'm not denying that this events occurred, simply suggesting that it is not unique to iRacing.

Who cares that other sims (GTR2/rFactor/Race07/GSC) with their public/free servers have tons of driver behaviour problem? The sticking point here is that iRacing servers are not free, a lot of users paid hundreds of dollars/euros to race cleanly and too often are faced with idiotic get-out-of-my-way behaviour or worse, pass some individuals and you'll suffer.

Pretending otherwise is a disservice to iRacing. There's enormous potential there, but only if users demand the best of it.


I should add, before I'm attacked, that...

Usually, the other way around, mate. Fanboys are a "nice" bunch.
 
Untrue.

There are problems with grip estimation, they were acknowledged last year and they were acknowledged after the NTM was released - and according to someone close to them, devs are aware.Whether this comes from temperature generation/management, or pressure problems or some issue with elements at the level of the contact patch, is not important here.

I took contention with the notion that it was impossible to hold a slide, not that there were fundamental flaws with the physics.

I have. More than once. Threats to send this or that replay to FIRST due to reiterated bad behaviour on both training sessions and races are not uncommon.

And this has only happened to you in iRacing?

Of course you will say no. Those who have seen this (there are threads - or there were - on official forums, I have seen similar threads on SimHq, here and many, many threads on driver behaviour at NG) are just "lying", right?

Why, of course? I said I'd never witnessed it, that doesn't mean I'm denying it happened.

Who cares that other sims (GTR2/rFactor/Race07/GSC) with their public/free servers have tons of driver behaviour problem?.

I'm talking about private leagues, some of which you have to pay to enter.

There's enormous potential there, but only if users demand the best of it.

Agreed.
 
It is one thing for the stewards to make a bad call. This stuff happens across all forms of motorsport, real or virtual.

It is another thing to fly a bratty fifteen-year-old out to three NASCAR races a year, all expenses paid, because his parents threatened to sue the service for banning their special snowflake for being a complete tool, while Jim-Bob gets a two week ban because his wheel fell into his lap mid-turn and he smacked into the wall.
 
HOWEVER, before I began my foray into painting, I contacted the head of the custom schemes department and asked for the exact guidelines as to what is allowed on custom schemes. He assured me that almost anything goes aside from blatantly racist or homophobic cars, and that iRacing can't ban you for a custom paint scheme because everyone has different standards when it comes to offensive content.
Quick question, who exactly did you contact? Steve at Trading Paints, or a specific iRacing staffer?
You mistakenly believe catching a slide with your "skill" is significant, it is not - if you use the same movements RL pro drivers use you will not catch a slide. At least 2 RL pro drivers posted their impressions on the GT cars in the official iR forums and what they said was quite clear on this issue (fanboys as usual tried to pin their complaints on the lack of "seat of the pants" sensations or possible lack of experience with sims, which was easily contradicted by them).
That's why I like the class D cars, they respond properly to countersteer. I'm pretty sure the bulk of the problem is limited to slick tires. Matt Bell did say he liked the McLaren overall, aside from its behavior on the curbs and snap oversteer. Whether road racing is 'worth it' because of that is up to personal preference. At the very least, the snap oversteer used to be MUCH worse.
 
Does Matt Bell races GT3's in real life Bakkster? Agree with him about the snap oversteer completely. But iRacing is not alone in that. Some other sim racing games do exactly the same unfortunately.

Real life GT3 cars (at least in Europe) produce a scary amount of grip in corners. I don't think the McLaren is an exception to that rule.

Personally I hope that sim racing at some points becomes realistic again as sometimes it seems that people confuse simulation with a difficulty level.
 
Maybe I'm playing a different iRacing? I've been a member for over 4 years and in that time I have caused wrecks, been wrecked, swore at, done some swearing at, driven drunk, made some not so nice comments on forums etc (I may add most of the time I'm generally a decent fella! :) ).

Anyway in this 4 years I have never reported anyone and have had only one bollocking from Nim for apparently abusing a guy on the forums. In all this time I have never seen any favoritism or OTT moderation, maybe I've just been fortunate?
It is not really that bad, you tend to get people that have had bother obviously complaining on relevant forums which can make it seem bad, just as everyone that posts something good about iRacing must be a sure fanboy.

If you act even half decently then I'm pretty sure there will be no issues with iRacing.

Austin, sounds like you have some chip on your shoulder, from your writing you are obviously an intelligent fellow. But arguing about the rights and wrongs of some perhaps vulgar paint scheme and coming on whinging about it makes you sound like a spoiled school kid. But hey, at least you now have your own thread on the iracing forums discussing your iracing review on here :)
 
After reading all these post I decided to give my brother a call. He is a lawyer with a major auto manufacturer . He is not into gaming as I am, but I sent him a link to this post and asked him to read it. He stated that if all this can be proven and documented it's, according to him, a conspiracy to commit fraud and possibly theft by deception.
 
Does Matt Bell races GT3's in real life Bakkster? Agree with him about the snap oversteer completely. But iRacing is not alone in that. Some other sim racing games do exactly the same unfortunately.

Real life GT3 cars (at least in Europe) produce a scary amount of grip in corners. I don't think the McLaren is an exception to that rule.
He was using the McLaren to practice for the Rolex 24h at Daytona. This year he was racing in a GT3-derived Audi R8. Less aero, no driving aids, and different tires. He said aside from those two issues mentioned above that the differences in driving the two cars made sense for the actual differences between the two.
http://www.grand-am.com/drivers/driver.aspx?did=2417&sid=2

He's also raced LMPs and did not have many good things to say about the HPD. Biggest complaint there seemed to be lack of traction control, as well as being from a build where snap oversteer was much worse. When mentioning the McLaren, though, he said it's "Better, not perfect. It's good enough not I do use it for training again."
 
After reading all these post I decided to give my brother a call. He is a lawyer with a major auto manufacturer . He is not into gaming as I am, but I sent him a link to this post and asked him to read it. He stated that if all this can be proven and documented it's, according to him, a conspiracy to commit fraud and possibly theft by deception.
You do realize that people are still openly discussing a game on a forum here? :)

For lawsuit treats we have another forum :roflmao:
 
He was using the McLaren to practice for the Rolex 24h at Daytona. This year he was racing in a GT3-derived Audi R8. Less aero, no driving aids, and different tires. He said aside from those two issues mentioned above that the differences in driving the two cars made sense for the actual differences between the two.
http://www.grand-am.com/drivers/driver.aspx?did=2417&sid=2

He's also raced LMPs and did not have many good things to say about the HPD. Biggest complaint there seemed to be lack of traction control, as well as being from a build where snap oversteer was much worse. When mentioning the McLaren, though, he said it's "Better, not perfect. It's good enough not I do use it for training again."

Hey, thank you for these posts, Bakkster. Nice info. :)

Some of the drivers I am in contact with believe the feel of the C6r and the Ford GT is wrong - "constantly on a knife's edge", one said. Dave Basu was very clear on the C6r: the real car seems like "on rails" (this due to the tires and also from a significant aero
advantage).

The HPD: I remember some claiming it was spot on, until drivers like Bell and Milner said protos are not that snappy, not even over curbs.

That's why I like the class D cars, they respond properly to countersteer. I'm pretty sure the bulk of the problem is limited to slick tires. Matt Bell did say he liked the McLaren overall, aside from its behavior on the curbs and snap oversteer. Whether road racing is 'worth it' because of that is up to personal preference. At the very least, the snap oversteer used to be MUCH worse.

Bell likes the overall behaviour, but sadly the snap oversteer is a bit too pronounced to make this car as good as it could be. Too bad.

That said...It is, I really believe, a matter of improvement in a couple of areas, unless critics have it right and the issues with the NTM are more deeply rooted.
 
Some of the drivers I am in contact with believe the feel of the C6r and the Ford GT is wrong - "constantly on a knife's edge", one said. Dave Basu was very clear on the C6r: the real car seems like "on rails" (this due to the tires and also from a significant aero
I agree. I keep giving the C6.R a go, but returning to the club cars that behave nicer. I'm sure I'll be willing to run the slick tires again sometime, but not yet. Hoping the Kia and Lotus don't have these issues when they come.
Bell likes the overall behaviour, but sadly the snap oversteer is a bit too pronounced to make this car as good as it could be. Too bad.

That said...It is, I really believe, a matter of improvement in a couple of areas, unless critics have it right and the issues with the NTM are more deeply rooted.
Exactly. I'm pretty optimistic, judging by how much less they snap in the last year or so, and that the SRF is pretty darn good right now. I know people say that the cars can't be saved, but my standard correction for the SRF now is a standard countersteer. I hear the car understeers in reality, but at least it's quite drivable now.
 
Indeed.

But that is also one of the things that is somewhat confusing about iRacing. A car, any car, is great in this build, and then goes back to being barely drivable a few builds down the line.

As I suspect the calibration remains pretty constant past a certain point (often, devs are sent incomplete (to say the least) info by car makers, and it takes a while and a ton of persuasion to get the proper info), then the ups and downs of car handling are due to changes in the physics engine and even new setups. This is obvious, no doubt, but often we forget about it.
 

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